Is a 2year development time per expansion holding Blizzard back?

[Swnem]

Ion has talked about it multiple times, I'm not making it up.

The 2 concurrent expansion teams was in order to oversimplify it, just like i stated, to explain how a pipeline format works. guess reading was a tad bit too difficult for an ook ook brain.

Reading and listening is hard for you cause you make stuff up. He never said anything of the sort.

There is a pipeline, but there are no concurrent teams doing the same thing. I explained how it actually works, so learn and stop being offended by knowledge cause your made up crap got corrected.

[Ajko]

I think the FIRST iteration of Vanilla only had 300.
Later it got around 1000

https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Quest

I got the information here

I dont know at what point it had 300 and 1000...sorry :S

the FIRST iteration of vanilla did not even had all the classes, and was called ALPHA.
when classic came out, it had already more than 1.5K quests with no doubt

edit: check source of that claiming at fandom.com you have posted: it is some random non official page with dead source already

edit 2: check https://www.wowhead.com/quests/min-r...?filter=27;2;0

filtered 1-59 non daily quests: result: 1384

there were many quest chains which were removed after cata, so when we consider them and add some quest for 60 lvl only from vanilla, then add all class quests (shaman totems, lock pets, roque poisons... all these chain quest) which were also removed it is even more than 1.5k (MUCH MUCH more)

[Big Thanks]

the FIRST iteration of vanilla did not even had all the classes, and was called ALPHA.
when classic came out, it had already more than 1.5K quests with no doubt

edit: check source of that claiming at fandom.com you have posted: it is some random non official page with dead source already

ok, ill change the OP, sorry.

[Ajko]

ok, ill change the OP, sorry.

i have edited previous post two times for correct numbers.

it is ok man, just: people nowadays, including me, are really butthurted when it comes to the unverified info. just search for correct informations when you are going to throw specific numbers (and it is far more than 1k, my quess is something around 2.1K, because i also forgot BGs chaing quests, proffesion chains quests, which were also removed... yep, 2.1K at minimum)

[Lei]

i have edited previous post two times for correct numbers.

it is ok man, just: people nowadays, including me, are really butthurted when it comes to the unverified info. just search for correct informations when you are going to throw specific numbers (and it is far more than 1k, my quess is something around 2.1K, because i also forgot BGs chaing quests, proffesion chains quests, which were also removed... yep, 2.1K at minimum)

Well, I mean remember the old Loremaster achieves? It required you to complete 700 quests in EK and 700 in Kalimdor for the Alliance, horde criteria was less. And people (including me) struggled with it quite a bit. It was quite a feat. And that was "just" 1400 quests.

[Ajko]

Well, I mean remember the old Loremaster achieves? It required you to complete 700 quests in EK and 700 in Kalimdor for the Alliance, horde criteria was less. And people (including me) struggled with it quite a bit. It was quite a feat. And that was "just" 1400 quests.

yep, maybe i am really wrong with that 2.1K, it could be even much more

[Lei]

yep, maybe i am really wrong with that 2.1K, it could be even much more

No, I meant I doubt that it is more. Not every quest was horde/alliance exclusive. And the requirement also technically contains the bc starter zone quests... And like I said, people were struggling to complete it back then.

[Ajko]

Let me just start by saying that is absolutely incredible what Blizzard can do in only 2 years of development time.
Battle for Azeroth has 2430 quests while Vanilla only had 1000.
Detailed continents, tmogs, dungeons, raids, cutscenes...and somehow they find time to put smart references and hidden tricks.
Its absolutely incredible.

But, do you think a 2 year development is holding Blizzard back?

Let me give you some perspective:
Every new expansion Blizzard has to do the STANDARD first. Entire continents, quests, tmogs, dungeons, raids etc
Then, with little time they have, they create *new* stuff like Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Warmode, mob AI.

From an interview:


https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...t-a-limitation

ok, so, further investigation:

- old loremaster for horde = 1200 quests, for aliance = 1430 (https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...gdoms#comments)
total: 2630
- all class quests for both factions = 558 (summed individualy for every class, wowhead)
total: 3188
- all BGs chain quests = 127 (summed for wowhead)
total: 3315
- all dungeon and raid quests = 765 (wowhead)
total: 4071
- all proffession quests = 95 (wowhead)

total: 4166

maybe i still forgot something, but there were definitely not only 1k vanilla quests OP, fix your toppic pls

- - - Updated - - -

No, I meant I doubt that it is more. Not every quest was horde/alliance exclusive. And the requirement also technically contains the bc starter zone quests... And like I said, people were struggling to complete it back then.

add class quests, BGs quests, proffession quests, dungeon quests, raid quests. yep, is much much more, i did sum, check post above

edit: you are right with "alliance and horde could share some quests", but i dont think it will make that difference

[Lei]

ok, so, further investigation:

- old loremaster for horde = 1200 quests, for aliance = 1430 (https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...gdoms#comments)
total: 2630
- all class quests for both factions = 558 (summed individualy for every class, wowhead)
total: 3188
- all BGs chain quests = 127 (summed for wowhead)
total: 3315
- all dungeon and raid quests = 765 (wowhead)
total: 4071
- all proffession quests = 95 (wowhead)

total: 4166

maybe i still forgot something, but there were definitely not only 1k vanilla quests OP, fix your toppic pls

- - - Updated - - -



add class quests, BGs quests, proffession quests, dungeon quests, raid quests. yep, is much much more, i did sum, check post above

edit: you are right with "alliance and horde could share some quests", but i dont think it will make that difference

Are you sure you counted the class quests right? - Dk - monk - Demon Hunter, - allied races breadcrumbs and /2 since the quests were most of the same for both factiosn just different quests givers gave them? I'm not seeing this many quests if I deduct what needs to be deducted.
Same with professions and BG and Dungeon quests........................................... It kinda DOES make a difference.
Are you checking this on Wowhead, or classic.wowhead? Also matters quite a bit. Normal wowhead is buggy as shit with pre cata quests, not that classic would be so much better right now.

[Ajko]

Are you sure you counted the class quests right? - Dk - Demon Hunter, and /2 since the quests were most of the same for both factiosn just different quests givers gave them? I'm not seeing this many quests if I deduct what needs to be deducted.
Same with professions and BG and Dungeon quests........................................... It kinda DOES make a difference.
Are you checking this on Wowhead, or classic.wowhead? Also matters quite a bit. Normal wowhead is buggy as shit with pre cata quests, not that classic would be so much better right now.

i am speaking about vanilla only, and classic wowhead, because actual wowhead does not hold old relevant informations

[Lei]

i am speaking about vanilla only, and classic wowhead, because actual wowhead does not hold old relevant informations

Right. Your first link related to quests is from normal wowhead, that is why I was asking. Now do the deductions for classes, raids, dungeons and bgs and probably most profession qs too...

Edit: Lol, I'm an idiot: when you list out the quests, it contains ALL the quests. From bgs to class quests and professions, everything. So no need to readd them like you did, but you still need to deduct duplicates.

[Big Thanks]

i am speaking about vanilla only, and classic wowhead, because actual wowhead does not hold old relevant informations

Ok man, i removed to Vanilla reference just to be safe.

But Vanilla took 5 years to develop and they surely did add quests later into the game.

[Ajko]

Ok man, i removed to Vanilla reference just to be safe.

But Vanilla took 5 years to develop and they surely did add quests later into the game.

it is true i can not be sure how many quests exactly were back then at first launch. i mean, i was playing from day one, but back then there was almost no info, no sums, no counters, nothing. i am just using my old memory and all relevant infomations i am able to gather. i am actually surprised it is hard to gather informations about this topic. all the calculations i did were not precise enough to say thery are correct, but for sure i can say there were definitelly more than 3.5K quests. but if at launch, or after few years, i really do not know

[Lei]

it is true i can not be sure how many quests exactly were back then at first launch. i mean, i was playing from day one, but back then there was almost no info, no sums, no counters, nothing. i am just using my old memory and all relevant infomations i am able to gather. i am actually surprised it is hard to gather informations about this topic. all the calculations i did were not precise enough to say thery are correct, but for sure i can say there were definitelly more than 3.5K quests. but if at launch, or after few years, i really do not know

Sure especially when you count cross faction quests twice.

[Drusin]

Let me just start by saying that is absolutely incredible what Blizzard can do in only 2 years of development time.
Battle for Azeroth has 2430 quests.
Detailed continents, tmogs, dungeons, raids, cutscenes...and somehow they find time to put smart references and hidden tricks.
Its absolutely incredible.

I'd imagine (and god damn I pray) they aren't handcrafting all of this stuff 1 buy 1, there's probably a template somewhere for all of that stuff.

[Akka]

What is keeping Blizzard back is their design which causes far too fast content consumption, forcing them to churn out new content too fast.

[Marrilaife]

They will never give up the millions of dollars they're getting from selling the xpac 60$ per box every 2 years. They even wanted to make it yearly to double the income but after the WOD fiasco they realized no effin' way they're developing anything remotely worth paying 60$ for in a year.

So nope, we won't get longer expacs with better quality / more content. It's all about getting that big cash-in every 2 years. Plus the 10 mill subs that will play for a month or two and then dropping back down to the 2-5 mil regulars afterwards.

[unbound]

Let me just start by saying that is absolutely incredible what Blizzard can do in only 2 years of development time.

Battle for Azeroth has 2430 quests.
Detailed continents, tmogs, dungeons, raids, cutscenes...and somehow they find time to put smart references and hidden tricks.
Its absolutely incredible.

lol...you need to get out more. All the MMOs get at least as much done as Blizz does in 2 years. It isn't incredible...it is incredibly standard (at best).

But, do you think a 2 year development is holding Blizzard back?

Let me give you some perspective:
Every new expansion Blizzard has to do the STANDARD first. Entire continents, quests, tmogs, dungeons, raids etc
Then, with little time they have, they create *new* stuff like Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Warmode, mob AI.

From an interview:


https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...t-a-limitation

You are buying into PR.

Take the current expansion. The "STANDARD" is 90% a copy of Legion...that took very little time at all.

As for your list of all the "*new*" stuff...it is actually all old. Do you not understand that they have tools to do all those things? Nobody is coding any of that from scratch.

Tools are used for creation of continents, modeling transmogs, dungeons, raids, etc.

IE and Warfronts are just scenarios introduced in MoP, which are just modified dungeons (a bit more scripted).

Mob AI is largely the same AI from the beginning, perhaps tweaked here and there with some expansions.

Warmode is a tweak to PvP flagging mixed with instancing that was introduced way back in BC.

The interview is providing half-truths. What he is saying is true, but what is being omitted is that the number of resources they have to implement each expansion keeps getting smaller. You can actually see this in Blizz's financial statements (up until 2015 when they stopped listing WoW financials entirely). In other words, that interview would violate what people swear to in court (to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth).

So, to ultimately answer your question, the 2 year development is *not* hold Blizz back. What is holding Blizz back from providing better is their own greed.

[Big Thanks]

@unbound

never seen someone so unreasonable and on top of that speculation shown as fact.
how do you know it takes little time to develop BfA?

[Lei]

Time between expansions is not solely about just how much time it would take to push out the next one.
if every expac has 3 outdoor content patches nowadays, and midway big patches we have smaller updates, and you want to leave 4-5 months between patches, then you will arrive at the 2 year mark. Otherwise you would need one or more patch to keep people in the loop. And that probably doesn't worth it, seeing how we now have very weak outdoor patches in the middle of the expac as well (Broken Shore, 6.1)
You can't really push patches faster, because there are people who are not world first raiders and they need those extra months to accomplish their goals, casual players need time to satisfy their casual goals (as if there were any achievable goal in BfA, but anyways). So a patch needs time to live and then expire.
I'm guessing the profit has shifted from box sales to services and shop stuff, you can see this on just how they wanted to push out an expac every year, but now they are fine with 2 years between expacs, but more buyable fluff in the store and cutting costs on the content/quality.
If anyone opens their eyes in the world, can see that you can raise the price of something several ways. Coca Cola raised their product's price by making the bottles smaller. Similar can be seen with yoghurts etc. And now Wow.