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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by The Scourge of Azuremyst View Post
    Issue is, your definition would include the UK.
    They share a land border with Ireland.
    Conservatism and its off-shoots are the most rotten idealogies to ever exist in human history.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Germany is correct. It is not nearly enough.

    More likely than not, it was the semi-autonomous IRGC that did this without knowledge of the Khameni or the rest of the government. Over the last decade and change, they've gone from being an organ of the state to pretty much the real power. Nominally, they answer to Khameni and the Clerics. As a practical matter, they've grown so much in power they can do what they please.

    The most likely explanation for why Iran would put mines on a Japanese ship while the Supreme Leader (Khameni) was meeting with the Japanese Prime Minister, is that the IRGC wanted to send the Clerical leadership, including Khameni, a message. Japan and Iran have had very good relations for years. Khameni would have no reason to order an attack on Japan of all countries, but Japan acting as an intermediary between the West (namely the US) and Khameni to denuclearize is a promising diplomatic route.

    The IRGC attacking a Japanese ship is a clear message to Khameni and Japan: to hell with that idea.


    So Germany is fundamentally right, because it's not clear (in fact, it's very unlikely) if "Iran" did this, as in the Iranian state, on orders from the Supreme Leader. It's very likely the IRGC did this of its own initiative, in which case the Iranian government would not be wholly culpable. If that's the case, the solution is to continue a counter-intelligence campaign against the IRGC, and nothing more.

    And this, for the record, is what a real "deep state" looks like, not the make believe one Trumpkins want to pretend America has just because President Crybaby can't get his way due to the rules.
    To add to this, Germany isn't being naive. The Chancellor said in an interview today that there is strong evidence. Just not enough to warrant action. But definitely enough to warrant looking into it, if only to find out the whodunit in the first place and then action an appropriate response. That is a reasonable reaction. Not calling for war instantly. See, what gets me suspicious isn't even the lack of evidence. It's that I almost heard Trump's call for war before I heard there was something going on with tankers in the strait... I mean, at least pretend you're looking at evidence and give it a day.

    No, actually, he send a carrier back to the Gulf a week before this conveniently happened, didn't he? Or something... I don't remember exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    They share a land border with Ireland.
    And also, the UK consists of four nations. All of which have done what we'd call terrorism today at some point in history. I mean, nobody's innocent in that department. It's only last century that we decided terror wasn't a legit weapon in warfare.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsonsion View Post
    Didn't the owner of the tanker say that it wasn't a mine? He said it was a flying object. But I get the impression you knew this already.
    A UFO planted the mine!! I knew it!
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    To add to this, Germany isn't being naive. The Chancellor said in an interview today that there is strong evidence. Just not enough to warrant action. But definitely enough to warrant looking into it, if only to find out the whodunit in the first place and then action an appropriate response. That is a reasonable reaction. Not calling for war instantly. See, what gets me suspicious isn't even the lack of evidence. It's that I almost heard Trump's call for war before I heard there was something going on with tankers in the strait... I mean, at least pretend you're looking at evidence and give it a day.

    No, actually, he send a carrier back to the Gulf a week before this conveniently happened, didn't he? Or something... I don't remember exactly.

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    And also, the UK consists of four nations. All of which have done what we'd call terrorism today at some point in history. I mean, nobody's innocent in that department. It's only last century that we decided terror wasn't a legit weapon in warfare.
    A carrier is in the 5th Fleet more often than not actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    He did. But before he said so, Bolton said he had "intelligence" it was 100% an iranian mine...now Bolton looks stupid.

    Bolton probably got a small dick, always want to invade something...

    Flying object? Missile? Artillery? Before I heard I assumed this was some terrorist attack like usss cole from 2000
    There is the possibility that both statements are correct.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is the possibility that both statements are correct.
    Flying mines? And how did they deliver those? With a space ship?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Flying mines? And how did they deliver those? With a space ship?
    You really need to think things through a bit....
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    If we have to condemn every nation that has ties to or supported terrorism at one point, you're going to have a pretty long list.

    Not even sure what point is being made with focussing blindly on just that.
    you can start with the USA or saudi arabia in that case

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    A carrier is in the 5th Fleet more often than not actually.
    Yeah, but he sent something back that was supposed to go home... unless I'm misremembering dramatically.
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  9. #49
    So arent bombs like these supposed to be placed below the waterline?

    And Germany is right imho.
    Last edited by Crispin; 2019-06-19 at 09:47 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    They share a land border with Ireland.
    England has no right to occupy northern Ireland.
    "Every country has the government it deserves."
    Joseph de Maistre (1753 – 1821)


  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalaric View Post
    England has no right to occupy northern Ireland.
    Northern Ireland is not occupied by England. It's a country within the UK. And the GFA gives them the choice of leaving the UK. They continually elect not to do so.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Northern Ireland is not occupied by England. It's a country within the UK. And the GFA gives them the choice of leaving the UK. They continually elect not to do so.
    It's English protestant invaders who votes for northern Ireland to remain in the UK.

    Ireland is a catholic country.

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    Why not go to war with Mexico instead?

    They have no nukes that they can launch at US soil and there is land to be grabbed.

    Fallout 3 is in America's future... it only went ahead closer in time than predicted by the game developers.
    Last edited by Amalaric; 2019-06-19 at 11:30 AM.
    "Every country has the government it deserves."
    Joseph de Maistre (1753 – 1821)


  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalaric View Post
    It's English protestant invaders who votes for northern Ireland to remain in the UK.

    Ireland is a catholic country.
    That's one opinion, at least.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    So arent bombs like these supposed to be placed below the waterline?

    And Germany is right imho.
    I think the claim is that they technically can be placed anywhere, but the way they're usually deployed is via divers who covertly swim under a ship and place it there. The argument here is that a ship came and placed it directly on the side, but this seems strangely risky when the US claims that the group that did it was firing missiles at drones.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    I think the claim is that they technically can be placed anywhere, but the way they're usually deployed is via divers who covertly swim under a ship and place it there. The argument here is that a ship came and placed it directly on the side, but this seems strangely risky when the US claims that the group that did it was firing missiles at drones.
    If you want to damage the ship then the lower the mine is placed the bigger the effect will be.
    If you want to have it burn and use it for propaganda pictures then you'd like to place them above the water line to avoid sinking the ship before you get around to taking pictures, because being around waiting and all set to take pictures even before anything happens is a bit too suspicious.

  16. #56
    There was some other attack just a few weeks ago against a ship, US blamed it on Iran.

    Even if it were them doing it for no apparent logical reason.. Why do it again to provoce Bolton to get his beloved war?

    If Iran wanted to bring down ships, trust me they have shitloads missiles to sink most ships in their vacinity..
    If they wanted to halt traffic, they could, this is nothing which makes u wonder why someone would even bother with such a small scale operation..

    This must be the Saudis involved, they hate Iran more than they hate the jews, n they really hate jews..

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yeah, but he sent something back that was supposed to go home... unless I'm misremembering dramatically.
    You're misremembering. The US Navy kept a Carrier in the Gulf almost without pause since 1991, until a few years back, when years of deferred maintinence, the delay of the introduction of the USS Gerald Ford, and greater concern in having carriers in the European region and Pacific region started to have carriers be in the Gulf far more rarely.

    The Carrier in question was sent through the medditerrainian, into the Gulf, as part of its deployment.

    But really, this is all a testament to the statement that the US operates a 14 carrier deterrence policy with a 10+1 carrier fleet.

    More recently, the US has also been using Amphibious Assault Ships as standin for carriers when we need to do some old fashioned power projection.

  18. #58
    Did you know that you are not allowed to partake in boycotts of Israeli products if you are an American citizen?

    Yep it's now against the law.
    "Every country has the government it deserves."
    Joseph de Maistre (1753 – 1821)


  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalaric View Post
    It's English protestant invaders who votes for northern Ireland to remain in the UK.

    Ireland is a catholic country.

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    Why not go to war with Mexico instead?

    They have no nukes that they can launch at US soil and there is land to be grabbed.

    Fallout 3 is in America's future... it only went ahead closer in time than predicted by the game developers.
    If Fallout 3 is in America's future, then the surface of Venus is in Sweden's.

    In World War III, America will be able to knock out of the intercontinental Russian warheads aimed at us. Not all, but most. Europe though? Russia has way more short and medium range missiles than the west as means to shoot them down. Most will hit, and effectively wipe out European civilization.

    You die in the heat, radiation and energy from detonations, or you die when the fallout clouds migrate northward and your become irradiated or choke to death from the dust clouds that will form when an entire continent is literally on fire. Either way your hard right wing rants will be for nothing.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    If Fallout 3 is in America's future, then the surface of Venus is in Sweden's.

    In World War III, America will be able to knock out of the intercontinental Russian warheads aimed at us. Not all, but most. Europe though? Russia has way more short and medium range missiles than the west as means to shoot them down. Most will hit, and effectively wipe out European civilization.

    You die in the heat, radiation and energy from detonations, or you die when the fallout clouds migrate northward and your become irradiated or choke to death from the dust clouds that will form when an entire continent is literally on fire. Either way your hard right wing rants will be for nothing.
    It will be Iran who brings the nuclear apocalypse to America.
    "Every country has the government it deserves."
    Joseph de Maistre (1753 – 1821)


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