Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Belgium’s Beijing Embassy Calls Chinese Cops on Uighur Family

    Talk about human rights by European countries is cheap. Absolutely disgraceful behavior by the Belgium embassy, allowing the Chinese police to impose their authoritarian and cruel policies on THEIR territory.

    Approximately 1.5 million people, mostly members of the Muslim Uighur ethnic minority, have been held in detention camps in China’s western region of Xinjiang since 2017. The continuing crackdown on Uighur culture, religion, and political expression has resulted in a state of terror throughout the region—and in the destruction of numerous families, with parents, grandparents, and children often separated.

    The failure of Muslim countries to speak up for their co-religionists, thanks to economic ties to China, has been much commented on. But while Western countries have been more outspoken on the plight of the Uighur people, they have often been hesitant to act when push comes to shove—even in countries that pride themselves on their advocacy of human rights, such as Belgium.

    A tragic recent case highlights this. Ablimit Tursun, a Uighur from Urumqi, Xinjiang, holding Chinese citizenship, was on a business trip to Turkey in 2017 when he was informed that his brother had been detained. His family in Urumqi warned him not to come back, for fear a similar fate could await him. Foreign travel is often used by the Chinese government as an excuse to send people to the camps, as is having relatives overseas.

    Tursun fled to Belgium, where he was granted asylum in 2018 and now works full time in a major Belgian company. He immediately began the process of applying for a Belgian family reunification visa for his wife and four children. The visa application included a letter describing the family’s situation as critical, stressing the risk such an application put them in and the need for discretion.

    Despite repeated requests by the family to simplify the visa proceedings in order to reduce this risk, the embassy insisted on them making two trips to Beijing. By itself, this put the family in danger: Uighurs traveling outside of Xinjiang are inherently seen as suspicious, monitored by police, and often detained at airports or stations.

    On May 26, Tursun’s wife, Wureyetiguli Abula, and their children (who are 5, 10, 12, and 17) secretly flew from Urumqi to Beijing for the second time to complete the visa application and hand in the last documents to the Belgian Embassy. They arrived on a late-night flight to avoid the airport police and checked into a hotel. Since Uighurs are routinely refused service from hotels, and their visits are often reported to the police, the hotel was pre-booked by a friend. Still, less than an hour after their arrival, after they were forced to show ID to register there, the Beijing police knocked at their door and interrogated them. Police officers came again the next evening, intimidating them and encouraging them to return to Urumqi.

    Abula feared that if they were returned to Urumqi, they would be blocked from leaving the region again and possibly sent to the camps. Her fear turned into panic when Belgian consular officials informed her the visa processing could take up to three months and advised that she wait in her home in Xinjiang. In fact, the visas were issued a mere two days later, but by then the damage was already done. The family refused to leave the embassy facilities until the visa application was processed.

    A long discussion ensued, and security staff ushered the family out into the embassy’s yard, where they lingered. At 2 a.m., the embassy called the Chinese police to the embassy facilities in order to remove the family. This is an extraordinary measure, only allowed in the most exceptional of circumstances.


    Abula and her children were taken to the local police station for a short interrogation by Xinjiang police, who had traveled to Beijing, and the officers tried to convince them to leave the capital.

    As they refused to return to Urumqi voluntarily, they were put under house arrest in the hotel for a day. The next day, the Xinjiang police forcefully entered their room and dragged them into a car. As of June 12, Tursun has not been able to contact his wife and four children for 11 days and has no idea of their whereabouts or health. Friends informed him that the local police had interrogated all his relatives in Turpan and Urumqi, had searched his home, and had taken away the family’s electronic devices. Those relatives may, in turn, be at risk of being sent to the camps.

    Abula and her children’s experience was typical of the oppression, discrimination, and absence of freedom experienced by many ordinary Uighurs in China. Abula was not able to travel freely to Beijing, she could not herself buy a ticket for travel out of Xinjiang, and she could not book a hotel room. The mere presence of a middle-aged woman and her children drew the attention of several police officers.

    But there are also serious concerns raised by the behavior of the Belgian Embassy, which showed reckless carelessness and a lack of responsibility. The Belgian Embassy was repeatedly informed of the danger it would pose to Abula and her children to have to travel to Beijing several times at different occasions, yet still they insisted. Not only was a request for refuge at the embassy refused, but embassy staff also voluntarily called the police in the middle of the night—effectively sealing the fate of a vulnerable family.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/06/14...uighur-family/
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  2. #2
    Belgium can't upset China. It would upset trade and cost money!
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    Talk about human rights by European countries is cheap. Absolutely disgraceful behavior by the Belgium embassy, allowing the Chinese police to impose their authoritarian and cruel policies on THEIR territory.



    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/06/14...uighur-family/
    And? small country vs big country = gone small country.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Azores, Portugal
    Posts
    9,695
    What do European countries have to do with this?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    And? small country vs big country = gone small country.
    What is China going to do to Belgium? Invade it? Put trade sanctions?

    Its nothing but pure greed from a European country that talks human rights as nothing but an empty talking point, no backing or principles behind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Belgium can't upset China. It would upset trade and cost money!
    Very true. Can't upset the chinese investors
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    What is China going to do to Belgium? Invade it? Put trade sanctions?

    Its nothing but pure greed from a European country that talks human rights as nothing but an empty talking point, no backing or principles behind.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Very true. Can't upset the chinese investors
    Trade sanctions, trade blocking, that sort of thing.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Baden-Wuerttemberg
    Posts
    4,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Trade sanctions, trade blocking, that sort of thing.
    for trading issues: Belgium = EU and EU is something China cannot afford to piss on, with the US tradewar brewing.

  8. #8
    I continue to be baffled how China thinks that destroying these families and hurting these people is going to make them less of a problem. What even provoked China into all this in the first place?

  9. #9
    In the article it states that the embassy intentionally asked the Chinese police to remove these people from the premise, because they didn't have a Visa yet. Not sure what the great hub hub is about. This article does a whole lot of explaining and claiming what the status and risks of this individual and his family is, but it makes a lot of assumptions that everyone in the world is supposed to know about this guy.

    Just a SJW article, really.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    Very true. Can't upset the chinese investors
    Since when are you against capitalism?
    ~~ All governments, our enemies.
    ~~All people, our allies. ~~

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I continue to be baffled how China thinks that destroying these families and hurting these people is going to make them less of a problem. What even provoked China into all this in the first place?
    China is playing the long game, trying to commit cultural genocide, given their capabilities I dare say they could pull it off in ca 30-40 years, if they manage to influence enough young Uighur.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    In the article it states that the embassy intentionally asked the Chinese police to remove these people from the premise, because they didn't have a Visa yet. Not sure what the great hub hub is about. This article does a whole lot of explaining and claiming what the status and risks of this individual and his family is, but it makes a lot of assumptions that everyone in the world is supposed to know about this guy.

    Just a SJW article, really.


    I shall attempt to explain.

    When a person is in fear of their life, and they enter a foreign embassy . . .

    That embassy will often grant them sanctuary and refugee status.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    In the article it states that the embassy intentionally asked the Chinese police to remove these people from the premise, because they didn't have a Visa yet. Not sure what the great hub hub is about. This article does a whole lot of explaining and claiming what the status and risks of this individual and his family is, but it makes a lot of assumptions that everyone in the world is supposed to know about this guy.

    Just a SJW article, really.
    Its not a guy, its a woman with her four children that tried to escape a country from which they were persecuted. His husband was already granted asylum for the same reasons, the Belgian government is aware of the persecutions and the danger they are facing, they were still handed to the chinese communist police into an unknown fate.

    "SJW article"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    I shall attempt to explain.

    When a person is in fear of their life, and they enter a foreign embassy . . .

    That embassy will often grant them sanctuary and refugee status.
    Fucking amazing that simple concepts have to be explained.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    China is playing the long game, trying to commit cultural genocide, given their capabilities I dare say they could pull it off in ca 30-40 years, if they manage to influence enough young Uighur.
    Doing a bit more digging on my part it seems like China is convinced these people have a loose connection to secessionists which then have another loose connection to terrorist groups.

    Smells to me like paranoia and a ton of innocents caught in the middle, so business as usual for the history books, unfortunately.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    In the article it states that the embassy intentionally asked the Chinese police to remove these people from the premise, because they didn't have a Visa yet. Not sure what the great hub hub is about. This article does a whole lot of explaining and claiming what the status and risks of this individual and his family is, but it makes a lot of assumptions that everyone in the world is supposed to know about this guy.
    From the Belgians side, they've got an application filed that could take a while and this family wants to camp out in their embassy. They told the people to leave, and eventually they went outside in the yard I guess. Finally the Belgians just called the local police to get the people out of their yard.

    From the Uigher side, every time they come to fill out paperwork, they risk their arrest. They book the hotel under someone elses name to avoid suspicion, they get scared when they get ID. They know that getting arrested means the children are taken away and probably will never see them again, the wife likewise could be in re-education for unknown timeframe.

    From the Chinese side, you've got a distinct social group that is in China, yet has a different religion and language and doesn't want to assimilate with the Great Party Of Everything Good and Right. When they found one Revolutionary Separatist closely linked to this guy, the guy fled to Belgium. Then to add to it, he had covert communication with his wife, who then fraudulently snuck around the country to try to defect from the Best Country Everyone Loves. Best thing to do is take away the kids and teach them how to be good party members, anything less would be uncivilized.

    From the European/ American side, we feel for the Uighers in like, an abstract sense, but I mean, we don't want cell phone prices to go up, so I mean, uh... we cannot interfere in internal matters of a foreign government.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    What is China going to do to Belgium? Invade it? Put trade sanctions?

    Its nothing but pure greed from a European country that talks human rights as nothing but an empty talking point, no backing or principles behind.
    Then why did they grant asylum to the husband, why did they start the application process for the wife and children?
    Why are you bashing all of Europe for the actions of some staff of one embassy?
    Did you make sure the staff acted with the blessing of the Belgian government?

  16. #16
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Belgium, Flanders
    Posts
    15,280
    Yes, the EU stance on moral standards is one that is hypocritical, however we still are far better at keeping a decent set of moral standards most of the time.

    I doubt there is an official stance on this from the belgian government as we don't got a federal one the last one is simply one in progress and a large party left the government even before the new elections and since the election and we won't have long for a long time as the entire nation politically is divide with both halves being at complete opposites.

    I don't even know how we appoint ambassadors, if it's political or not.

    News site appears to be a credible one, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foreign-policy/

    Wasn't anything about the news about it today, maybe it will get picked up later what will lead to some sort of official statement or explanation, maybe it won't we'll see.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Yes, the EU stance on moral standards is one that is hypocritical, however we still are far better at keeping a decent set of moral standards most of the time.

    I doubt there is an official stance on this from the belgian government as we don't got a federal one the last one is simply one in progress and a large party left the government even before the new elections and since the election and we won't have long for a long time as the entire nation politically is divide with both halves being at complete opposites.

    I don't even know how we appoint ambassadors, if it's political or not.

    News site appears to be a credible one, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foreign-policy/

    Wasn't anything about the news about it today, maybe it will get picked up later what will lead to some sort of official statement or explanation, maybe it won't we'll see.
    We actually have the official answer, from the same article:

    Anybody interested in China knows of the plight of Uighurs. Embassy staff should be more aware of it than most—especially those dealing with a sensitive visa case. For the staff to deliberately endanger a family that they had explicitly forced to take a risky journey to the embassy in the first place was dire incompetence at best, and it hints at deeply misplaced priorities. In a meeting with Tursun (accompanied by Vanessa Frangville, one of the present authors), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Belgium cited Abula’s misunderstanding of Belgian administrative procedures and obstinate refusal to leave the embassy to justify cooperation with the Chinese police. They rejected Tursun’s demand to make the family case a priority in their diplomatic agenda, considering that “showing explicit concern would put too much pressure on China” and that it would be wise for “a small country like Belgium” to avoid turning this case into a conflict with China.
    Basically, they have sealed the fate of the family and won't do anything about it.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  18. #18
    EU-state bureaucracy meets way-too-frightened-to-think-straight Uighurs.

    They had a chance they might not be able to leave next time they return; now after stunt like that they can be sure of it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    Its not a guy, its a woman with her four children that tried to escape a country from which they were persecuted. His husband was already granted asylum for the same reasons, the Belgian government is aware of the persecutions and the danger they are facing, they were still handed to the chinese communist police into an unknown fate.

    "SJW article"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fucking amazing that simple concepts have to be explained.
    Belgium goverment ? what belgium goverment
    you do realize the goverment fell 6+months ago and all they have now is a minority cabinet limping on until a new one is formed
    i'd say they got no authority left to deside on this atm in the first place,

    sad case for the family though, wont hear this in belgian news

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Then why did they grant asylum to the husband, why did they start the application process for the wife and children?
    Why are you bashing all of Europe for the actions of some staff of one embassy?
    Did you make sure the staff acted with the blessing of the Belgian government?
    i wonder why he left his wife and kids and got asylum for him first though

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aenigma84 View Post
    i wonder why he left his wife and kids and got asylum for him first though
    The answer you seek is in the third paragraph of the source quoted in the OP.
    The OP can be found on the very top of this first page.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •