Has Mythic finally reached a point of, nope..

[prwraith]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

[Vapo]

CoS should have never been released in any form, its literally there to just burn out people.

[Onikaroshi]

Luckily you won't have to wait long for 8.2, Release candidate, season end announcement, everything points to the 25th.

[BossManRoth]

my guild killed it on heroic and haven't stepped back in. the tuning is up there, but i think the main problem is the rewards are lackluster. Trial of Valor had the same tuning issues when it launched, but there were non-drop rewards to be had in the raid zone, including a title/mythic xmog that could only be obtained one way. CoS has nothing going for it to make people want to be in there.

[Hinastorm]

You just killed jaina, who I hear is a pita.

They'd be down to start CoS in a couple weeks if you had more time, they are just spent right now.

[psyquest]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

My Guild is the same. we killed jaina about 6 weeks ago and decided that the new raid is way too shit, require mainly casters etc and is a pain in the ass that tastes bland.

So we are not doing it. It is the worse raid ever in wow.

[Choloz]

it's not so much the raid as it is the timing

[Drattz]

The problem with CoS is that you are coming off a multi hundred pull boss. The last time we had something like this it was ToV and the hardest boss in EN was Cenarius probably which was about a 50-150 pull boss depending on your group. Top that off with the fact that between them both you are looking at probably at least 800 pulls with a raid right around the corner. Our guild having killed Jaina for the first time 3 or 4 weeks ago just don't think there's enough time to put that many pulls in before Azshara comes out so why burn ourselves out when we have a new tier coming in about a month?

[Kralljin]

Filler raids with Bosses that are tuned like full fledged tier (pen)ultimate bosses are just bad.

Same goes for ToV, same goes for CoS.
Can't blame any raider, because you literally get nothing but a title out this, because due to the 8.2 PTR, you just know that anything out of there will be useless within weeks by now.

I wouldn't mind Uu'nat / Cabal as boss within a huge tier, because you're prepared to sink effort into there, but as a random filler tier, you just burn yourself out before the next tier.

[MisterBigglez]

I personally don't want to have to progress on a boss that takes hundreds of pulls only to then go onto another boss that takes hundreds of pulls which drops shit gear and won't even matter in a week or two, while also being melee, so fuck that noise.

[Drattz]

Filler raids with Bosses that are tuned like full fledged tier (pen)ultimate bosses are just bad.

Same goes for ToV, same goes for CoS.
Can't blame any raider, because you literally get nothing but a title out this, because due to the 8.2 PTR, you just know that anything out of there will be useless within weeks by now.

I wouldn't mind Uu'nat / Cabal as boss within a huge tier, because you're prepared to sink effort into there, but as a random filler tier, you just burn yourself out before the next tier.

I disagree that ToV was a problem. We had just come out of the easiest mythic raid of all time. There was at least for my guild a want for there to be harder bosses. After we six shot Xavius we all felt pretty wanting for any kind of challenge and I think as a whole ToV had the right difficulty for the first two bosses and Helya was there to give us a real end of raid boss. Had ToV been released at the same time as EN I think it would have been a good flow to do EN -> ToV It's just unfortunate that ToV had so little time before NH came out due to it being tacked on months after the target audience for ToV had cleared EN.

[Craaazyyy]

lmao you just killed Jaina what are you talking about?

[Shaqthefat]

COS was supposed to be only for the best guilds

[Hilaw]

CoS was really fun, first boss got kinda ruined with nerfs, but uunat is amazing boss.

[KaPe]

CoS was really fun, first boss got kinda ruined with nerfs, but uunat is amazing boss.

He was "ruined" so badly that people still don't bother with him. Because it's still a long fight with ton of annoying things that can murder you and debuff management is still important for people who don't have it on farm. It still has multiple instant wipe mechanic. Complex interrupt rotations makes it easy to mess up and punishes deaths very harshly.

It's a shit boss in a shit instance.

[Sliske]

So last night we finally got our mythic Jaina kill. Pretty excited about it and all. But someone mentioned casually, "ok, mythic CoS now".

And pretty much the entire raid said nope, fuck that shit, we're just reclearing BoD and waiting for 8.2. I mean 19 other mythic level raiders who are as of less night in the top 500 guilds for the US on BoD literally noped out of CoS and have no intention of ever touching that raid.

Has Blizzard finally overturned a raid to such a degree (initially) that it's discouraging people from even making the attempt? I kind of feel if they don't get their raid testing teams up to snuff this could really hurt the mythic raiding scene :/

First, saying top 500 in US really is not that impressive. The 500th US guild is world rank nearly 1400... I don't have the exact stats, but you're probably in the bottom end of mythic raid guilds. Assuming you didn't start clearing the raid 2 weeks ago, your only strength is that your guild is stable. I've been in these types of guilds before and they're generally awful at the content and require massive amounts of overgearing and nerfs just to be able to edge out a single kill, with zero hopes of reclearing the final boss again.

Second, yes, CoS is overtuned relative to BoD. CoS's issue however isn't that the bosses are too hard --- they're really not, no more difficult than your Lei Shens, Archimondes and so on. But the issue with CoS is that the only option for weak mythic guilds (the vast, vast majority) to gain progress is to wait for Blizzard's nerfs. In an ideal world, this wouldn't need to happen. But we live in a world where the top 500th guild in the US is clearing the previous tier's content 2 weeks before the next patch, with no hope of even killing the first boss of the intermittent raid.

Lastly, not directed at you in particular - but this is just yet another problem with small raids (less than 3 bosses.) If its too easy, then it is a massive waste and feels like dead-on-arrival content. If its too hard, no one can be bothered to do it, as the raid doesn't have any unique visual items, has no real story and is mostly forgettable.

Ask yourself a question. How many raids are there in WoTLK. Count them really fast. You probably forgot Ruby Sanctum even existed. Why is this raid so forgettable? Because the boss was a joke. Now i would get an example of the opposite problem, but I don't need to. CoS is the best example yet of a waste of time raid. Think about everything you get from entering CoS. Think about it first as a min maxer. Now think about it as a casual. The first group will do it for a few weeks at most. Casuals won't do it at all. It is dead-on-arrival content.

I've yet to even enter it in normal, let alone heroic or mythic. Its a boring raid with no decent rewards, inconsequential story and reused visuals. If there is a single unique visual in CoS that isn't in the request of current 8.1.5 WoW, i will bet my life on it that you will be able to experience that visual somewhere in 8.2. Without a fucking doubt.

So yeah, TL;DR - Its a shite raid that i've yet to see a single person say they enjoyed.

[Hilaw]

He was "ruined" so badly that people still don't bother with him. Because it's still a long fight with ton of annoying things that can murder you and debuff management is still important for people who don't have it on farm. It still has multiple instant wipe mechanic. Complex interrupt rotations makes it easy to mess up and punishes deaths very harshly.

It's a shit boss in a shit instance.

One long debuff at start and you can nearly avoid it rest of fight now. I like challenging raids, so cos was super fun for me, but I can see why people don't like it. Interrupt rotation was kinda frustrating on progress tho. Imo uunat was best boss in BFA so far.

[Kralljin]

Had ToV been released at the same time as EN I think it would have been a good flow to do EN

I think this is the keyword here.

How ToV was placed was utterly stupid.

First off, it fell right into the point where getting the crucial 5% damage / healing trait (35th trait Afaik) on your artifact was within reach with dedicated farming.
Not 24/7 MoS farm, but still, thus Guarm was a massive pain.

Second, unless you killed Helya early on, the progression fell into holiday season, which is just horrible.

Timing can seriously damage the (mythic) experience of a raid.

[Drattz]

I think this is the keyword here.

How ToV was placed was utterly stupid.

First off, it fell right into the point where getting the crucial 5% damage / healing trait (35th trait Afaik) on your artifact was within reach with dedicated farming.
Not 24/7 MoS farm, but still, thus Guarm was a massive pain.

Second, unless you killed Helya early on, the progression fell into holiday season, which is just horrible.

Timing can seriously damage the (mythic) experience of a raid.

Yeah I guess I just don't let the timing be what dictates if I think a raid was good. Blizzard has been bad at release schedules for raids for forever. Looking at ToV and CoS I think CoS is a much bigger flop just because its difficulty and pull count curve doesn't flow well with BoD. Where I feel that EN and ToV were a good flow. The raiding experience of ToV was lacking due to timing though and CoS also suffers from this so I just feel that CoS is on a brand new level of stupidity given timing and difficulty relative to earlier bosses in the same tier/season.

[Tehterokkar]

He was "ruined" so badly that people still don't bother with him. Because it's still a long fight with ton of annoying things that can murder you and debuff management is still important for people who don't have it on farm. It still has multiple instant wipe mechanic. Complex interrupt rotations makes it easy to mess up and punishes deaths very harshly.

It's a shit boss in a shit instance.

Git gud? The bosses were nerfed multiple times. Uu'nat is a joke since they nerfed the beam debuff duration. You just have to learn the basics of the fight now. If your guild can't clear the raid, then it is fine. Not all content should be clearable by every guild, if your guild can't kill first boss of CoS, then that is your world rank, just like the guilds that can't kill Jaina before they take CE away.

I wish they'd get rid of the "first 3 bosses on mythic are free kills" mentality, it completely ruins the raids when 80% of the raid bosses on mythic are complete pushovers, 10% is tuned well and 10% is tuned to high heavens. BoD was a complete shit show in terms of difficulty, everything up-to Mekkatorque was a complete joke, Stormwall was ruined by Blizzards incompetence to properly QA test for exploits.

Blizzard finally delivers on mechanically good bosses in CoS and people complain that they are too hard. CoS has been the best raid in BfA so far because the bosses were good and there were no free kills.