Why is there so much American patriotism in Hollywood movies?

[Deathknightish]

I understand that they are made in America, but they are still made with an international audience in mind who will just cringe when Spider-man comes to save the day by jumping onto a roof top and stay there for a couple of seconds just so you can see the American flag behind him.

[bison91]

Because they are not using the propaganda at all, unlike soviets. Oh wait...

[Bathory]

Because that kind of shallow patriotism sells. People like their "FUCK YEAH AMERICA" chest beat moments, since anything deeper than that is too inconvenient.

[Uko]

Its called pandering. Its why they do anything. If they think adding more asians to movies will make them sell there will be more asians. If they think more american flag shots will do it they will do that.

[PACOX]

Because people are proud of where they are from?

But is there really? Because a lot of people will argue that Hollywood is full of anti-America rhetoric that tries to paint America as the bad guy every chance it gets.

[Nobleshield]

It's pandering and propaganda, pretty much. Just like how a big part of what (IMHO) ruined Transformers and the old Godzilla movie (the bad one) was the emphasis on showing how super duper awesome the military is against these threats when they should have just gotten their teeth kicked in to show how these threats are above and beyond that. Instead it was a lot of rah rah support the troops and you have regular people fighting monsters that traditionally would have destroyed them but because it's US soldiers they get shown as amazing heroes.

In fact that was cited as a big reason why the original US Godzilla failed so spectacularly. I can't find the quote at the moment but it was something about how the US can't fathom an opponent their military can't handle, while in the Kaiju movies the entire point is that the military is virtually helpless without another monster/alien/whatnot helping them out or doing everything on their own.

[Skroe]

In a rush but... no. If you people really want to see patriotic propaganda, fire up "The Wandering Earth" on Netflix, AKA China's biggest domestic movie ever. The moral of the story is: the bureaucratic state is highly competent and success is assured by following the lead of the state and doing as instructed.

On the other hand, if American movies have a single, unifying patriotic principle strain (and that's a big claim), it is in idealizing a kind of rugged individualism in the face of the incompetence of the state. The theme is "one man can make all the difference", basically the exact opposite of what China is peddling in their actual state-sanctioned propaganda. Want to see this going to a particular extreme? Braveheart... which isn't even about an American... is basically American in its sensibilities.

Waving an American flag somewhere... that's whatever. That barely counts as anything in a movie nowadays. The contextual messaging matters more.

[Irian]

Because pandering.

There are so many idiots who eat that shit up. The amount of fat, useless lumps walking around in supermarkets with the flag plastered all over every article of clothing in the US is evidence enough that it works. The US is fueled by blind patriotism because if they didn't instill this kind of radical nationalism, people might actually start to notice how poorly the country treats its low and middle class.

[Skroe]

It's pandering and propaganda, pretty much. Just like how a big part of what (IMHO) ruined Transformers and the old Godzilla movie (the bad one) was the emphasis on showing how super duper awesome the military is against these threats when they should have just gotten their teeth kicked in to show how these threats are above and beyond that. Instead it was a lot of rah rah support the troops and you have regular people fighting monsters that traditionally would have destroyed them.

In fact that was cited as a big reason why the original US Godzilla failed so spectacularly. I can't find the quote at the moment but it was something about how the US can't fathom an opponent their military can't handle, while in the Kaiju movies the entire point is that the military is virtually helpless without another monster/alien/whatnot helping them out or doing everything on their own.

Transformers movies are different because Michael Bay sought the assistance of the US military, and one of the conditions of the US military is that it isn't displayed in a negative light.

Most movies with the US military in it *do not* seek US military assistance. Crimson Tide, famously, does not have military assistance.

If you want a tell if the movie received US military help or not, watch if the soldiers in it are using UH-1 Huey or a UH-60 Blackhawk for helicopter rides, and if they have F-22s and F-35s in them or F-15s and F-16s. You can't lease Blackhawks from private companies for use in movies, but there are thousands upon thousands of UH-1 Huey's around. The US Army only utilizes Huey's for a few side missions now, and not for routine transport (for wich they use UH-60s). But movie studios commonly use them because leasing UH-1s for a few days (especially if they have doors) is cheaper than CG and the public isn't likely to notice.

Also with the F-22 and F-35, the intellectual property to them is owned by Lockheed Martin, and putting them in a movie as CG involves licencing them. That is not the case with the F-15 and F-16, whose IP is owned by the US Government.

Another tell: the presence of M1 Abrams tanks. The US government owns all M1 tanks, so movie studios either have to partner with the DoD or they have to do what they commonly do, which is get some of the countless M60 Patton tanks in junk yards around America and visual-mod them to look like M1s. Side by side the visual mod and the genuine article will look quite different, but for the purposes of a movie? Pretty easy.

Basically, because if IP ownership rights and limited access to retired vehicles without going through the US government, movie studios have little choice but to partner with the US military if they want to show a *modern* looking US military.

An excellent example of this is the 2014 Godzilla movie, which was exquisitely detailed in its display of US military power... way more than Transformers, which mostly consistented of flyby shots of aircraft and ships. Godzilla had CG fleets of modern US warships and submarines and modern equipment, almost all of it looking exactly like it should, doing what it should. This is notable because they didn't actually use all that many real life examples, but rather mostly CG. So they really just licensed the rights. But that was the necessary step.

[sinilaid]

Because Hollywood is American, it's the same in every countries movie industry.

[Deathknightish]

Because Hollywood is American, it's the same in every countries movie industry.

I understand that, but they are still made with an international audience in mind, unlike most other movie industries that make domestic movies that sometimes get international attention they didn't count on, unless they are specifically made for an international audience in mind (clues like them speaking English instead of the native language and such).

Obviously the, say, Swedish industry has a lot of Swedish lingo only Swedes will understand in movies specifically made for Swedes, but if they are making a movie for international audiences they will cut that down and make it much more international friendly.

[OnlineSamantha]

The US army gives them large monetary incentives to portray the military in a positive light, and I imagine that, combined with the obvious nationalism that is just a part of American culture, influences a lot of big Hollywood productions.

[Obsession]

the department of defense will help fund movies if they fit certain criteria. google "dod hollywood funding" or something similar

[unholytestament]

I understand that, but they are still made with an international audience in mind, unlike most other movie industries that make domestic movies that sometimes get international attention they didn't count on, unless they are specifically made for an international audience in mind (clues like them speaking English instead of the native language and such).

Obviously the, say, Swedish industry has a lot of Swedish lingo only Swedes will understand in movies specifically made for Swedes, but if they are making a movie for international audiences they will cut that down and make it much more international friendly.

And yet a lot of the most chest-thumpiest American movies still do well internationally.

Transformers and the 2014 Godzilla both made more money in foreign markets than they did in the US. Hell, the foreign markets are the main reason these series continued, as Transformers Dark of The Moon made more than twice as much in foreign markets as it did domestic.

[exochaft]

In a rush but... no. If you people really want to see patriotic propaganda, fire up "The Wandering Earth" on Netflix, AKA China's biggest domestic movie ever. The moral of the story is: the bureaucratic state is highly competent and success is assured by following the lead of the state and doing as instructed.

On the other hand, if American movies have a single, unifying patriotic principle strain (and that's a big claim), it is in idealizing a kind of rugged individualism in the face of the incompetence of the state. The theme is "one man can make all the difference", basically the exact opposite of what China is peddling in their actual state-sanctioned propaganda. Want to see this going to a particular extreme? Braveheart... which isn't even about an American... is basically American in its sensibilities.

Waving an American flag somewhere... that's whatever. That barely counts as anything in a movie nowadays. The contextual messaging matters more.

I'd have to agree that anyone complaining that Hollywood movies have a swath of patriotic propaganda either is just going by something they read instead of watching the movie, or they really don't know what propaganda really is. Forget movies, go to any Chinese state-sponsored news website, that's patriotic propaganda... although I can only imagine what would happen to individuals if you went rogue and actually criticized the Chinese government.

If you want a movie that was "patriotic propaganda" for the sake of being ridiculous and funny, Team America: World Police is your movie. I've actually seen foreign movies sponsored by governments who were equally absurd in the amount of "patriotic propaganda," but we're actually serious in their messaging instead of being silly.

[Skroe]

I'd have to agree that anyone complaining that Hollywood movies have a swath of patriotic propaganda either is just going by something they read instead of watching the movie, or they really don't know what propaganda really is. Forget movies, go to any Chinese state-sponsored news website, that's patriotic propaganda... although I can only imagine what would happen to individuals if you went rogue and actually criticized the Chinese government.

If you want a movie that was "patriotic propaganda" for the sake of being ridiculous and funny, Team America: World Police is your movie. I've actually seen foreign movies sponsored by governments who were equally absurd in the amount of "patriotic propaganda," but we're actually serious in their messaging instead of being silly.

I mean, going with this, how many US military-centric movies display the rugged tenacity, virtue, selflessly and bravery of lowly enlisted US soldiers and small fighting units, and pair it with monumental incompetence, corruption, cowardice and short sightness of their superiors back at base, or the wider US government. Most of them?

Even the Transformers movies absolutely ripped on the US government. In the first one, the government knew about the Transformers for 80 years and did nothing. In the second, they blamed the Autobots presence on Earth for continued Decepticon attacks. In the third, they sold out the Autobots, to the Decepticons. In the fourth. they actively hunted and killed all but a few Autobots on Earth. In the fifth, they team up with Megatron again and that blows up in their face. The individuals and broad organization of the US military looks good. But the "United States" comes off looking like massive idiots, always fucking shit up and making things worse, until the rugged determination of one man (or one Transformer) turns the tide. Hell even the Space Shuttle/Autobot hybrid space vehicle gets obliterated by Starscream because America trusted the Decepticons.

In a propagandist version of the movie, that Hybrid Space Shuttle would have showcased American technology and ingenuity and flown down and destroyed the Decepticons all by itself, intercut with bureaucrats making short monologues about how technology from all 50 states focused through the US government made this possible, thus saving the human race and allowing us to spread American values to the stars. Because that's exactly the kind of stuff that goes on every 20 minutes in The Wandering Earth.

Transformer-esque military war porn is tedious at this point, but harmless. I think the biggest thing it does is give people a massively wrong impression of how things work. For example, if there were a Transformers 6, it would probably have a B-1B flyby, just like (I think) 3 of the five films in the Bay series. But it would say nothing about the fact that due to years of backlogged maintenance and parts shortages due to an aging air frame, only 9 of 62 B-1Bs are currently flight capable, and will remain that way until 2021 or 2022. Yeah the US military looks badass when the B-1B does that low altitude flyby. But the US would never win a war with one bomber, and a fleet in which 53 of 62 aircraft can't fly doesn't say a positive thing. Our hell, in Transformers 5, an F-35 fired a nuclear air launched cruise missile... which you know... F-35s will never be able to do. They will be able to drop B61-Mod 12 Nuclear Glide Bombs though... around 2028 or so. Why not sooner? Uncle Sam doesn't want to pay for the certification and electronics until then.

Is it important that the movie get the fact that a F-35 can't (and won't) fire a nuclear cruise missile right? Probably not. But cumulatively, if there is any damage, I think it's in the ongoing, multi-decade process of video gamification of war. I'd say it's part of the long bad trend of making war seem easy, when it's expensive and difficult, in both lives, money and materiel.

[exochaft]

I mean, going with this, how many US military-centric movies display the rugged tenacity, virtue, selflessly and bravery of lowly enlisted US soldiers and small fighting units, and pair it with monumental incompetence, corruption, cowardice and short sightness of their superiors back at base, or the wider US government. Most of them?

I think it's on par with a trope more than propaganda. That kind of trope is seen in foreign movies, as well. Now there are actually times when the military branches get involved and use movies as advertisements, but the amount of influence is generally very limited. For example, the G.I. Joe movies had the help of the US Army, but aside from a few throw-away lines here and there, almost everything from the story and creative direction of the films was not influenced by them.

I avoided quoting the entire post, but I did want to talk about it with some degree. I think referring to Transformers as military war porn is probably an apt description, and that people should view these types of movies as entertainment instead of an accurate representation of reality. If someone goes into such movies thinking you're going to get any factual information, they are crazy. It goes for a lot of movies: entertainment at the expense of realism, as that's the main driver for people going to the movies and getting audiences. If we're talking documentaries and movies of a similar ilk, that's a different story, although I have seen some inserted bias into documentaries because people automatically assume they're getting unbiased information because it's a documentary (and creators prey upon this preconceived notion).

I suppose this is where real education comes in, especially historical education that seems extremely lacking. Unfortunately, most people's historical context begins on the day they were born, and the thousands of years of history that came before them is never considered despite how illuminating and important it really is. Although I'll admit a lot of the science in movies drives me nuts, especially with my background being physics and nuclear engineering... so many movies get things so wrong that it drives me nuts (to be fair, some do an adequate job w/o getting into the weeds). Trying to remember specific examples off the top of my head, but I know that there's some assumptions I've heard people quote as scientific fact that are actually "movie science" with no factual/scientific basis. Such a phenomenon actually happens a lot with movies, as well as social media and the news nowadays, where people just repeatedly hear something and assume it's factual when it's not.

[Kokolums]

On the other hand, if American movies have a single, unifying patriotic principle strain (and that's a big claim), it is in idealizing a kind of rugged individualism in the face of the incompetence of the state. The theme is "one man can make all the difference", basically the exact opposite of what China is peddling in their actual state-sanctioned propaganda. Want to see this going to a particular extreme? Braveheart... which isn't even about an American... is basically American in its sensibilities.

You could argue that the other way around. The Scottish clans were very fierce, proud and independent. They rebelled in the 1700s. A lot of the American colonists had scottish heritage (you can even see it in many of the flag designs). Even the confederate flag had the cross on it that harkened back to the scottish flag.

It might be better put that rugged American individualism is just scottish rugged individualism transplanted across the pond.

[Sunseeker]

Because the US government pays for it.

Also, Americans eat that shit up, so basically it makes more money.

[McNeil]

Similiar question can be asked why the aliens always decide to invade the US and not any another part of the world. And they happen to always win without having to rely on other countries to help them out.