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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    It failed because of the timing - assuming people will be happy to keep throwing themselves against super hard bosses for weeks on end is silly, because *everyone* needs a break to recharge after they do something as demanding as kill an end-boss. That has nothing to do with the *rewards* being too bad. That there isn't a *ton* of good gear from the raid is just a justification guilds make to take that break that we rightfully should have had to prevent burnout.



    Emphasis on the last part - "gear resets" between each tier has been a thing since I started raiding in Cataclysm. You'd maybe use a single item from a previous raid tier if it was seriously overpowered (and we had that as recently as Legion with Convergence anyway), but a new raid tier has always signified that all your gear is getting upgraded, more or less. Saying it "lasted" when you got BiS in the past is 100% false.
    No, meaning for stuff to last is not false?(What?) How can it even be false, you're twisting my words here. I'm talking about making stuff last meaningfully longer than they last now. You of all people should actually know how much less frequently you replaced your stuff back then, Cata man. (The replacing of gear between tiers is so obvious, I'm actually wondering how you managed to make that a bullet point)

    You got your BiS and you were BiS.
    There was no titanforge behind the corner. And that's what I mean largely.
    You replace the stuff, in The Next Tier and during the last tier, in the next expansion(Gear in the last tier, remained on your character for nearly a year). And you never replaced it with the stuff from the same raid, ooh 5 lvls higher. Now, even when on week 15 in the raid, you do(That is what is stupid, the whole gambling aspect. It should be illegal.)

    The loot is so forgettable right now, that you don't really even care what it's called. They can even put an insult into them and par to none would notice.


    EDIT: I'm taking these last 2 out that I had here before, because it's a bit too negative. Don't twist my words.
    Last edited by Huzzaa; 2019-06-18 at 01:25 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    What do all forgettable, boring and uninspired raid encounters have in common? They're all clusterfucks in circular rooms. What exactly does the Cabal do? I can't really tell you which mechanic is supposed to be the main feature of this encounter.

    Is it debuff management? If you screw it up, you get instagibbed by [Crushing Doubt]. But if at least one raider falls asleep and dies to [Void Crash], you might as well wipe it anyway since the timers will be off. Missed interrupts will instagib the whole raid. Someone overaggroing at the start will instagib the whole raid. Sometimes you won't have enough cooldowns to handle the relics and they will instagib you too. The point is, I can't really tell what's supposed to be the defining mechanic of this encounter. It seems like there's just a bazillion instagib mechanics coming in from every direction. Cabal might as well be called "death by a thousand paper cuts: the boss".

    Uu'nat has the same problem. It's a clusterfuck in a circular room. Conclave was a clusterfuck in a circular room. Mythrax was a clusterfuck in a circular room. So was Zul. Compare and contrast with encounter like Mekkatorque, Opulence, and Vectis. You know how to describe them in one mechanic. Mekkatorque is the voicecom encounter. Opulence is the gauntlet run encounter. Vectis is the debuff management encounter. How would you describe the Cabal? It's a clusterfuck in a circular room.
    Oh look, I was just about to rage, but I won't take the bait, just noticed it's good ol' Wilfire the troll.

  3. #63
    Dreadlord salate's Avatar
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    ToC was cool, ToC in Hearthstone was so heartwarming...
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  4. #64
    While I agree that 1 mechanic encounters can be unique and interesting. For example, Thaddius or Heigan, it's also extremely difficult to repeat 1-mechanic encounter.
    Which is why clusterfucks would always be a thing. And I don't mind that either.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I was speaking of reward in a general sense, not just the in-game items one would get from the bosses. The satisfaction, the sense of pride, the feeling of dominance over others, the glow of teamwork and accomplishment -- for most who have been raiding in mythic, all these failed to motivate them to do this raid. This raid shows that all of those rewards have their limits.
    As someone who killed it, I actually get a lot more of that than I do from our Jaina kill, specifically *because* this boss is turning out as exclusive as it is. The less people that kill it, the better my "reward" of having killed it, and thus, the more satisfaction and pride I can take in having actually done it instead of just giving up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Huzzaa View Post
    No, meaning for stuff to last is not false?(What?) How can it even be false, you're twisting my words here. I'm talking about making stuff last meaningfully longer than they last now. You of all people should actually know how much less frequently you replaced your stuff back then, Cata man. (The replacing of gear between tiers is so obvious, I'm actually wondering how you managed to make that a bullet point)
    I made it a bullet point because you were being unclear about what you were talking about. Gear didn't "last longer" in previous tiers. They lasted for a tier. Anything from the end-boss was always only useful for farm or early mythic next tier.


    You got your BiS and you were BiS.
    There was no titanforge behind the corner. And that's what I mean largely.
    You replace the stuff, in The Next Tier and during the last tier, in the next expansion(Gear in the last tier, remained on your character for nearly a year). And you never replaced it with the stuff from the same raid, ooh 5 lvls higher. Now, even when on week 15 in the raid, you do(That is what is stupid, the whole gambling aspect. It should be illegal.)

    I heavily disagree with this, to be honest. Being able to still get a reward 15 weeks into the raid feels nice. The literal only reason I'd have to go back into SoO after getting BiS on my fifth char is to just see how much output I could manage to do (which I personally am not great at and take little joy in doing; I've always been far more focused on mechanics), or to help out friends. While that's perfectly fine for a mandatory, weekly full-guild raid to keep everything running smoothly, it was still boring. I had 4 or 5 "BIS" geared characters outside of warforging stuff in SoO.

    As for mid-tiers, you never really got to farm them long enough to actually *get* full BiS, so that's also not super relevant either.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherling View Post
    So many people hate ToC and I've never fully understood why. For what it was, I really enjoyed it
    It was less to do with the raid itself and more doing it 3-4 times every week 10man normal/herioc and 25man normal/heroic, for the trinkets and such. Well Anub heroic was a horribly designed fight, needing to farm old content for very specific block gear for your warrior is simply stupid.
    I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.
    -Donald J Trump.

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