Modern raid design: it's a clusterfuck. In a circular room.

[Dracodraco]

I was speaking of reward in a general sense, not just the in-game items one would get from the bosses. The satisfaction, the sense of pride, the feeling of dominance over others, the glow of teamwork and accomplishment -- for most who have been raiding in mythic, all these failed to motivate them to do this raid. This raid shows that all of those rewards have their limits.

As someone who killed it, I actually get a lot more of that than I do from our Jaina kill, specifically *because* this boss is turning out as exclusive as it is. The less people that kill it, the better my "reward" of having killed it, and thus, the more satisfaction and pride I can take in having actually done it instead of just giving up.

No, meaning for stuff to last is not false?(What?) How can it even be false, you're twisting my words here. I'm talking about making stuff last meaningfully longer than they last now. You of all people should actually know how much less frequently you replaced your stuff back then, Cata man. (The replacing of gear between tiers is so obvious, I'm actually wondering how you managed to make that a bullet point)

I made it a bullet point because you were being unclear about what you were talking about. Gear didn't "last longer" in previous tiers. They lasted for a tier. Anything from the end-boss was always only useful for farm or early mythic next tier.

You got your BiS and you were BiS.
There was no titanforge behind the corner. And that's what I mean largely.
You replace the stuff, in The Next Tier and during the last tier, in the next expansion(Gear in the last tier, remained on your character for nearly a year). And you never replaced it with the stuff from the same raid, ooh 5 lvls higher. Now, even when on week 15 in the raid, you do(That is what is stupid, the whole gambling aspect. It should be illegal.)

I heavily disagree with this, to be honest. Being able to still get a reward 15 weeks into the raid feels nice. The literal only reason I'd have to go back into SoO after getting BiS on my fifth char is to just see how much output I could manage to do (which I personally am not great at and take little joy in doing; I've always been far more focused on mechanics), or to help out friends. While that's perfectly fine for a mandatory, weekly full-guild raid to keep everything running smoothly, it was still boring. I had 4 or 5 "BIS" geared characters outside of warforging stuff in SoO.

As for mid-tiers, you never really got to farm them long enough to actually *get* full BiS, so that's also not super relevant either.

[Stormspellz]

So many people hate ToC and I've never fully understood why. For what it was, I really enjoyed it

It was less to do with the raid itself and more doing it 3-4 times every week 10man normal/herioc and 25man normal/heroic, for the trinkets and such. Well Anub heroic was a horribly designed fight, needing to farm old content for very specific block gear for your warrior is simply stupid.