Page 1 of 13
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Will horde dominate raiding like live for will min maxers go alliance?

    Question is really in the title. Do you think the alliance will have the majority of the world raid guilds due to their stronger racials/class or do you think the dominance of the horde on live will see more people going horde despite the weaker racials or perhaps because of the stronger racials in pvp?

  2. #2
    Pretty sure Horde has more dps in raids.

  3. #3
    Remember when windfury could proc off itself infinitely, and sometimes hit for 20-30 strikes at a time? Pepperidge farm remembers.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Battlebeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    2,707
    Now it's been years, and I only raided as alliance, but I have a strong memory of complaining back in the day how unfair it was that the horde were so much stronger racialwise.

    So I think mixmaxers will actually go horde.

  5. #5
    All min-maxers are going Alliance.
    i7-6700K @ 4.6GHz | ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K6+ | 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000/CL15 @ 3200/CL14 | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | 256GB Samsung EVO 850 PRO | 2TB WD2003FZEX | 2TB WD20EFRX | Creative Sound Blaster Z | Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme | Corsair RM650x | Cooler Master HAF X | Logitech G400s | Tt eSPORTS POSSEIDON | Kingston HyperX Cloud II | BenQ XL2411T + LG 24MK430

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Blessing of salvation is pretty much going to push it for Alliance minmaxing alone.

  8. #8
    Alliance is mathematically superior. Not even close, especially in Naxx, when classes become top that do not have means to control their own aggro. But since the current raiding scene is ~90% Horde (99:12 in Crucible HoF at this moment) it is safe to assume that a lot of players will want to stay playing the same faction for whatever reason.

    The difficulty of Classic raids is mainly logistically. A guild that manages to stick together, farm their shit and field 40 people consistenly will clear the content at the same pace no matter which faction they play.

    Mid to long term it will be most important which faction is actually played. What does it matter if 2 or 3 Horde guilds claim Worldfirst and then leave classic behind while the players who actually play the content and are available for you to form groups to do shit are all Alliance? I cannot see the Horde going strong in Classic. Remove Blood Elves from the Horde in retail and the Faction would die within weeks.

    TL: DR:
    If by "dominate" yu mean claiming world-first kills, it simply depends where the most active retail guild decides to go, they will clear shit no matter which faction. If you mean which faction offers the most possibilities to actually find groups for something it is quite a safe bet to say Alliance.
    Last edited by Nathasil; 2019-06-16 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #9
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Belgium, Flanders
    Posts
    15,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    Alliance is mathematically superior. Not even close, especially in Naxx, when classes become top that do not have means to control their own aggro. But since the current raiding scene is ~90% Horde (99:12 in Crucible HoF at this moment) it is safe to assume that a lot of players will want to stay playing the same faction for whatever reason.

    The difficulty of Classic raids is mainly logistically. A guild that manages to stick together, farm their shit and field 40 people consistenly will clear the content at the same pace no matter which faction they play.

    Mid to long term it will be most important which faction is actually played. What does it matter if 2 or 3 Horde guilds claim Worldfirst and then leave classic behind while the players who actually play the content and are available for you to form groups to do shit are all Alliance? I cannot see the Horde going strong in Classic. Remove Blood Elves from the Horde in retail and the Faction would die within weeks.

    TL: DR:
    If by "dominate" yu mean claiming world-first kills, it simply depends where the most active retail guild decides to go, they will clear shit no matter which faction. If you mean which faction offers the most possibilities to actually find groups for something it is quite a save bet to say Alliance.
    Pretty much hit the nail on the head, Classic and those who commit to it like all MMO's from that era is not about min-maxing. It's about the structure the guild or faction will have on that specific server as it's a numbers game of people and key figures in that guild will to put in the time and energy to manage the raids, the guild, the recruitment.

    And it's all going to be a whole lot harder compared to when those raids were current as the player base while less experienced was far more numerous. I imagine it will be comparable to Wildstar while being a bit easier for Classic. I was part of a team that ran raids in that game and getting the numbers for 40 was a really uphill climb, so maintaining that number, keep getting new people in, means you really need to make your raids fun and have social events in the guild or at least be social, people who are going to treat Classic as they do the live game are not going to be in guild that last.

  10. #10
    I don’t know where people are getting alliance racial are better in classic? Must be alliance bias but horde racials are far superior in classic.

  11. #11
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    19,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    Question is really in the title. Do you think the alliance will have the majority of the world raid guilds due to their stronger racials/class or do you think the dominance of the horde on live will see more people going horde despite the weaker racials or perhaps because of the stronger racials in pvp?
    horde are more pop on current because of racials. so the faction with the better racials/classes wil be the main focus in vanilla.
    so pretty sure alliance=pve horde=pvp

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasherr View Post
    I don’t know where people are getting alliance racial are better in classic? Must be alliance bias but horde racials are far superior in classic.
    and why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasherr View Post
    I don’t know where people are getting alliance racial are better in classic? Must be alliance bias but horde racials are far superior in classic.
    People are saying paladins are far better, not the racials themselves.

  13. #13
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    19,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneer View Post
    Blessing of salvation is pretty much going to push it for Alliance minmaxing alone.
    also dwarf priests too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    People are saying paladins are far better, not the racials themselves.
    there is also dwarf priests, which you could consider "racial"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Genkisei View Post
    Remember when windfury could proc off itself infinitely, and sometimes hit for 20-30 strikes at a time? Pepperidge farm remembers.
    that was a 1 in 1 million chance, and really only useful for PVP, which is why horde=pvp, alliance=pve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Genkisei View Post
    Remember when windfury could proc off itself infinitely, and sometimes hit for 20-30 strikes at a time? Pepperidge farm remembers.
    yup... and those threat spikes for sword spec builds was just stupid.

  15. #15
    Its a tough call because players were in general much worse at mechanics back then. Blessing of salvation that paladins give let alliance players dps way more freely because all the dps racials and windfury totems wont matter if you have to hold back due to threat. If threat being an issue turns out to be trivial and that it was always a l2play issue horde will for sure win but if threat is the cockblock on dps it will be alliance.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasherr View Post
    I don’t know where people are getting alliance racial are better in classic? Must be alliance bias but horde racials are far superior in classic.
    They are talking about blessing of salvation, which is the only external way to reduce the threat of many top DPS specs to a sufficient extent that they can go all out on DPS, i.e. Fury. One of the biggest problems with DPSing in vanilla was threat. For example, my raiding guild in vanilla had an enhance shaman for awhile that had a hand of rag. He could absolutely do competitive DPS, but basically ANY time he got a couple good windfuries, he could pull aggro and die, especially in the first like minute of the fight. At many points in a Fury warrior's carreer raiding in vanilla, their limiting factor on DPS was threat.

    Now, whether or not this mathematically outweighs Horde racials, WF totem, and bloodlust, I have no idea, I've never seen any TC on the subject.

  17. #17
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    19,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Zensunni View Post
    Now, whether or not this mathematically outweighs Horde racials, WF totem, and bloodlust, I have no idea, I've never seen any TC on the subject.
    bloodlust was not in vanilla.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2019-06-16 at 05:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  18. #18
    Alliance got some pretty neat stuff though, Blessing of Salvation alone will help a TON. And then you have dwarf priests with fear ward (for real, if you dont care what you play, you just want to raid? Roll a dwarf priest and get a spot in ANY guild instantly, or any pug for that matter).


    In the long run, it's mostly about who is more dedicated to get people geared up so they can actually clear content though. Resists and all that jazz.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  19. #19
    Alliance for PVE, Horde for PVP. As a poster mentioned above, Alliance is mathematically superior because of pally salv buffs. Horde does have 20% threat from tranquil air, but shamans are almost always going to use windfury totems. To do maximum dps in late game raids, it's all about threat management.

    In practice, a strong/dedicated guild is going to succeed as either faction.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasherr View Post
    I don’t know where people are getting alliance racial are better in classic? Must be alliance bias but horde racials are far superior in classic.
    It's almost like Paladins and Fear Ward push them above any horde racial.

    I wish people who never actually played back then would stop acting like they know anything. It's really cringe.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •