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  1. #1

    Man trying to get his daughter back from ISIS.

    We often hear about the ISIS brides and others who willingly joined ISIS or had children there and debate whether they should be allowed to return to their home countries.

    But then there are cases like this.

    Man's ex wife takes 4 year old daughter to Syria with her new husband to join ISIS.

    5 years later he is still trying to locate his kid and get her back.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/16/73205..._campaign=news

    This man has done absolutely nothing wrong, yet still likely lost his child, German authorities really should try a bit harder to track her down, at least give the man some piece of mind if she died somehow.
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  2. #2
    Germany will do nothing. They will bring up, as discriped the "Wedo not have an embassy in Syria sorry" excuse, or "We don't know, if that child is really german! We would need a clear dna test..." which of course is not performed.

    It is pretty clear, that German is not interested in anything of that, and tries to avoid responsibility, so long, that the issue dissolves itself, most likely by the children dying, or the relatives or parents giving up.

  3. #3
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    We often hear about the ISIS brides and others who willingly joined ISIS or had children there and debate whether they should be allowed to return to their home countries.

    But then there are cases like this.

    Man's ex wife takes 4 year old daughter to Syria with her new husband to join ISIS.

    5 years later he is still trying to locate his kid and get her back.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/16/73205..._campaign=news

    This man has done absolutely nothing wrong, yet still likely lost his child, German authorities really should try a bit harder to track her down, at least give the man some piece of mind if she died somehow.
    Sadly, the child was with its mother. In many countries, the mother overules the father just by being the mother.
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  4. #4
    Titan Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Germany will do nothing. They will bring up, as discriped the "Wedo not have an embassy in Syria sorry" excuse, or "We don't know, if that child is really german! We would need a clear dna test..." which of course is not performed.

    It is pretty clear, that German is not interested in anything of that, and tries to avoid responsibility, so long, that the issue dissolves itself, most likely by the children dying, or the relatives or parents giving up.
    All European nations are in the process of taking back children from parents who joined ISIS, including those born there.

    We can accept that it is a war torn country and that refugee camps elsewhere are not structured and overcrowded or we can play into your childish nonsense that if everyone just put in a little more effort everything can be solved.

    The bringing kids back is something that is rather recent that is true since there are quite a few cogs involved in that machine but nations have had doctors, aid workers and organizations prepping for this for 6 months. This is real life not some disney movie not every story there is going to have a good outcome some kids will be lost for good.

  5. #5
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Sadly, the child was with its mother. In many countries, the mother overules the father just by being the mother.
    And where do you get that from?

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    And where do you get that from?
    Well that is true even in most western (including EU) countries. Like in Finland. The legislation just is like that.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    All European nations are in the process of taking back children from parents who joined ISIS, including those born there.

    We can accept that it is a war torn country and that refugee camps elsewhere are not structured and overcrowded or we can play into your childish nonsense that if everyone just put in a little more effort everything can be solved.

    The bringing kids back is something that is rather recent that is true since there are quite a few cogs involved in that machine but nations have had doctors, aid workers and organizations prepping for this for 6 months. This is real life not some disney movie not every story there is going to have a good outcome some kids will be lost for good.
    Well, Germany explicitly said, is currently impossible, because of the lack of diplomatic relationships, and unknown parentship/ citizenship of children. Also, the government seemingly attempts, to first revoke the parental rights first according to an MDR article, which is a complete clusterfuck and next to impossible. I do not know, how it works in other states, but Germany has an atrocious, pretty much impossible strategy. So first, they must find the child and parents, then, they have to investigate, what the parents have done, and probably, if it is relevant for a prosecution, most revoke parental rights in absentia, and then? Wait till they have a consulate opened again?


    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Well that is true even in most western (including EU) countries. Like in Finland. The legislation just is like that.
    Even if it is so usually, I think, that kidnapping a child to a war torn country, joining a terrorist oragnisation, and comitting crimes, is kind of a indication, that the mother should take care of the child.

  8. #8
    I don't disagree but what can they honestly do... comb through the members of a terrorist organization one that relies mostly on stealth to survive to somehow find a four year old that if we are honest will look completely alien in terms of physical appearance from the time she was abducted?

    This is tragic but there isn't really anything that can be done about it.

  9. #9
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
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    I hope he finds her alive and well.
    .

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  10. #10
    Titan Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Well that is true even in most western (including EU) countries. Like in Finland. The legislation just is like that.
    And also completely pointless comment to make in this context, it is merely to moan about custody laws however people who generally do like to moan about this simply believe that this is blind favouritism and there is no argument behind it. It is also a left over of how artificially our families were shaped for ages, where the father went to work and the mother remained at home to raise the kids.

    In any case this is a completely different discussion and again a pointless comment, since going to Syria to join ISIS has become a crime in its own and thus taking your kid there is going to be seen as abduction on some level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Well, Germany explicitly said, is currently impossible, because of the lack of diplomatic relationships, and unknown parentship/ citizenship of children. Also, the government seemingly attempts, to first revoke the parental rights first according to an MDR article, which is a complete clusterfuck and next to impossible. I do not know, how it works in other states, but Germany has an atrocious, pretty much impossible strategy. So first, they must find the child and parents, then, they have to investigate, what the parents have done, and probably, if it is relevant for a prosecution, most revoke parental rights in absentia, and then? Wait till they have a consulate opened again?



    Even if it is so usually, I think, that kidnapping a child to a war torn country, joining a terrorist oragnisation, and comitting crimes, is kind of a indication, that the mother should take care of the child.
    There are that many checks in place because people are very careful about all this, there are many things that can go wrong and while for you it seems as pointless bureaucracy, to others it does not but i'm no legal expert and i'm sure there are many loopholes such as bringing a child and parents back together and they most likely don't want to rush bringing the kid back only so it can then be used as a backdoor for the mother and possible new partner later on into free and legal passage into Europe.

  11. #11
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Feel sorry for the guy, its the wife and his new husband to blame for this. Sadly its very unlikely he'll ever see his daughter alive again. Thats the human atrocity of something like this.

  12. #12
    shes 9 now ? Already been married off to some pedo mohammed and raped 500 times. poor kid

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    And where do you get that from?
    Incoming "mens rights" arguments.
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    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    More than likely the daughter has been renamed and married off (sold) to a grown man by now. Finding her seems like a mammoth of a task, but then again they've found lost people before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Sadly, the child was with its mother. In many countries, the mother overules the father just by being the mother.
    Pretty sure that goes out the window if the mother is somehow unfit, which clearly is the case if she brings the child to a country at war and a terrorist organisation.

    My mother lost the custody battle (she wanted sole custody) on the simple fact that she didn't always cook us dinner. And that happened in Sweden. This whole "motherly privilege"-argument falls apart very quickly.
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  15. #15
    Devout Muslim.
    Ex-Wife.

    Seriously though, that has to be awful. Poor guy.

  16. #16
    There are that many checks in place because people are very careful about all this, there are many things that can go wrong and while for you it seems as pointless bureaucracy, to others it does not but i'm no legal expert and i'm sure there are many loopholes such as bringing a child and parents back together and they most likely don't want to rush bringing the kid back only so it can then be used as a backdoor for the mother and possible new partner later on into free and legal passage into Europe.
    Then you can still arrest them and prosecute. Still better taking the risk, than letting children die....

  17. #17
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    And where do you get that from?
    Has nothing connection with this case in particular but as a parent, following parental groups, joining court as support, I've seen cases of the father losing out even though both are in the same standing, because, 'better to be with mother'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Pretty sure that goes out the window if the mother is somehow unfit, which clearly is the case if she brings the child to a country at war and a terrorist organisation.

    My mother lost the custody battle (she wanted sole custody) on the simple fact that she didn't always cook us dinner. And that happened in Sweden. This whole "motherly privilege"-argument falls apart very quickly.
    Problem is, I've seen cases were the mother holds no income, or much space of a home, still win in the court because some votes mother to be a better development choice. It is all down to courts and people in them.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Even if it is so usually, I think, that kidnapping a child to a war torn country, joining a terrorist oragnisation, and comitting crimes, is kind of a indication, that the mother should take care of the child.
    The simple question is, how fast can the father manage to get an injuction to keep the mother from leaving with the child, when it is entirely likely to be in a plane before he ever knows? And wtf would a government be able to do to prevent that.

    And after that, what can the state of Germany do to track that kid when it has no diplomatic connections in the area and no way to track the kid? Like can you give me an example of what they can do?

  19. #19
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    While i feel for the man, if the mother is still alive, she not only has the right to keep the kids, but they are proberly not even citizens of his country anymore, so any decision made by his court has no bearing in Syria or where she lives now.

    The tale is different if she is an orphan and her mother/step father was dead. But right now, she is as unwanted as her mother and the man has no possibility of legally getting his kid back, just as if she was living in another country and was protected by their laws.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    While i feel for the man, if the mother is still alive, she not only has the right to keep the kids, but they are proberly not even citizens of his country anymore, so any decision made by his court has no bearing in Syria or where she lives now.

    The tale is different if she is an orphan and her mother/step father was dead. But right now, she is as unwanted as her mother and the man has no possibility of legally getting his kid back, just as if she was living in another country and was protected by their laws.
    Germany is not allowed to make a person stateless, regardess of crimes. And the child even less so. Also, there are very specific circumstances that allow revoking citizenship. And those are "Joining the armed forces of another nation", which the mother did not. Isis are not "another nation". Or fraud, cheating or other ill actions, in order to aquire it in the first place. Which did not happen as well. Also, the child did neither of it.
    Also, the kurds, who are holding the Isis fighters, women and children prisoner, have Germany already offered, to hand those women and children back. Which was however so far refused.
    Last edited by josykay; 2019-06-16 at 05:02 PM.

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