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  1. #21
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    For Classic to be a test of nostalgia it would require for its entire playerbase to be a former Vanilla player.

    The thing is, there are more players who never played vanilla than actual vanilla players.
    From a small research in 2013
    Yeah, no. There is still a major element of nostalgia that Blizz is going after. Let me explain.

    For clarity, there were (in 2013) more active WoW players who never played Vanilla than who played Vanilla and continued to play into MoP (active expansion in 2013).

    Vanilla ended with about 8 million subs. BC ended with about 12 million subs. While you might think that was a straight 4 million sub addition, it is entirely likely that BC had 6 million or so new subs with a couple million dropped subs.

    Wrath kept the number of subs essentially flat...but that actually was a combination of losing subs and gaining subs. There was probably 2 to 3 million new subs during that time.

    Cata dropped to a low of 9 million subs. Again, probably more than 3 million subs were lost...likely 5 million subs or so were lost, with a couple million new subs.

    MoP started the new cycle of spike in subs, followed by steep drops. The study likely occurred when subs were down to 7.5 million...likely 3 million subs lost, with 1.5 million subs gained (yeah, I know a few people that actually started playing with MoP).

    With all this in mind, there should be no surprise at the results of the study. But, importantly, Blizz is looking to get at least some of those millions of subs that long ago abandoned the game.

    Blizz is not looking to have many current players jump to Classic (at least not for very long). Blizz is looking to get a bunch of former players back into the game.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Blizz is not looking to have many current players jump to Classic (at least not for very long). Blizz is looking to get a bunch of former players back into the game.
    But the majority of Vanilla players were 28 years old at the time.
    That would mean 43 years old today...

    Unless its targeting the 12-20 year olds of Vanilla, i dont see a huge number of 43 year old players coming back for Classic.
    But this is just my opinion.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    But the majority of Vanilla players were 28 years old at the time.
    That would mean 43 years old today...

    Unless its targeting the 12-20 year olds of Vanilla, i dont see a huge number of 43 year old players coming back for Classic.
    But this is just my opinion.
    The 43 year-olds that played during vanilla (of which i am one) are exactly who will flock to Classic.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    All it will show is that after Years of being told by Vanilla Fanboys how "amazing" Vanilla was, People that started from Wrath onwards will be able to experience the old trash heap in all it's time wasting glory.
    "Time wasting glory". How does that actually work?

    Are you saying 1 hour in Classic is "more wasted" compared to 1 hour in modern WoW?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Saroc View Post
    The 43 year-olds that played during vanilla (of which i am one) are exactly who will flock to Classic.
    I think you are extremely cool for being a 50y old playing WoW but...i doubt the majority of CLassics playerbase will be like that.
    In my opinion, the "majority" will be every possible WoW player out of the 100 000 000 registered accounts (now more).

  6. #26
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcosmcc View Post
    Are you saying 1 hour in Classic is "more wasted" compared to 1 hour in modern WoW?
    IN terms of progressing your character? Yes. Immensely. Having to waste multiple hours each week just farming Poisons/Blindpowder/Vanish Powder on my Rogue is a waste of time not required in Modern WoW. Hell it wasn't even required in MOST of WoW's lifetime.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    I think you are extremely cool for being a 50y old playing WoW but...i doubt the majority of CLassics playerbase will be like that.
    In my opinion, the "majority" will be every possible WoW player out of the 100 000 000 registered accounts (now more).
    Well, two friends who never played WoW confirmed they are going to give Classic a shot. One is 28, the other is 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    IN terms of progressing your character? Yes. Immensely. Having to waste multiple hours each week just farming Poisons/Blindpowder/Vanish Powder on my Rogue is a waste of time not required in Modern WoW. Hell it wasn't even required in MOST of WoW's lifetime.
    What do you mean you HAD to?
    Last edited by marcosmcc; 2019-06-18 at 12:58 PM.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    If they could bite equal player base to player base back in 2004-2005 i have no words. Just applause and bow my forehead. Game is much better known that back in the days i mean the trade mark. They just made new realese with better advertisment, bigger player base, better servers quality/stability, better after-sale service. What can go wrong ?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    IN terms of progressing your character? Yes. Immensely. Having to waste multiple hours each week just farming Poisons/Blindpowder/Vanish Powder on my Rogue is a waste of time not required in Modern WoW. Hell it wasn't even required in MOST of WoW's lifetime.
    1 hour wasted with fun/no fun is the same regardless how far you progress your character. There is also no tangible "correct" progression because in the end none of the progress matters, you either die before WoW can reach the endtime (no more content, maxed out character) or WoW simply shuts down which makes any progress you do meaningless. Objectively speaking, if Classic actually stays with #NoChanges it will be one of the very few MMOs where you actually have character progression that is not taken away from you. Each WoW Expansion cycle takes away power from you, be it through balance or even drastic ilvl squishes. In Classic once you have BiS you have progressed your character to the maximum possible and nobody can take that away if they don't add anything to it. In a vacuum classic is the more correct way to play WoW if you value progression. Having no endpoint means any progression you do is pointless especially if that progression is skipped through catch-up mechanics. Imagine you work your way to be a millionaire in 2 years, then after 2 years the government hands out millions to everyone. That is current WoW expansion design. Classic you earn that million and only others that worked for it will have that million, nobody can take away the power of Naxx gear.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2019-06-18 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcosmcc View Post
    What do you mean you HAD to?
    Because not having those as a Rogue basically made you subpar and you might as well play something else. Much like a Warlock that didn't gather Soul Shards, or a Hunter with an unhappy Pet or no Ammo.

    I mean gimping yourself makes everything harder to do and makes activities slower, which also adds to the waste of time I was speaking of.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    1 hour wasted with fun/no fun is the same regardless how far you progress your character. There is also no tangible "correct" progression because in the end none of the progress matters, you either die before WoW can reach the endtime (no more content, maxed out character) or WoW simply shuts down which makes any progress you do meaningless. Objectively speaking, if Classic actually stays with #NoChanges it will be one of the very few MMOs where you actually have character progression that is not taken away from you. Each WoW Expansion cycle takes away power from you, be it through balance or even drastic ilvl squishes. In Classic once you have BiS you have progressed your character to the maximum possible and nobody can take that away if they don't add anything to it. In a vacuum classic is the more correct way to play WoW if you value progression. Having no endpoint means any progression you do is pointless especially if that progression is skipped through catch-up mechanics. Imagine you work your way to be a millionaire in 2 years, then after 2 years the government hands out millions to everyone. That is current WoW expansion design. Classic you earn that million and only others that worked for it will have that million, nobody can take away the power of Naxx gear.
    And yet to be in full Naxx gear would definitely require you to waste the time to gather Poisons, Blinds and Vanishing powder. Whereas to Raid the current Raids now requires no such waste of Hours just to make my character work efficiently within it's own abilities.

    Also your analogy is inane. Since you can't equate catch-up mechanics to literally having to farm pointless shit AND Catch Up mechanics don't give you the best gear in game. So your analogy would make more sense if you said you made $4 million and the Government gave everyone else 1 Million dollars to help them to catch up to your $4 Million.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Because not having those as a Rogue basically made you subpar and you might as well play something else. Much like a Warlock that didn't gather Soul Shards, or a Hunter with an unhappy Pet or no Ammo.

    I mean gimping yourself makes everything harder to do and makes activities slower, which also adds to the waste of time I was speaking of.
    So you had an objective and worked towards it. The game rewarded you with a stronger character for investing the time. It was not a waste.

    I think most of those who can't comprehend why anyone would like that "work" would be very happy with world-less game called "Warcraft Raids" if it meant that person could participate in challenging raids pronto, or even "Warcraft Arena".

    Classic is about everything else.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Because not having those as a Rogue basically made you subpar and you might as well play something else. Much like a Warlock that didn't gather Soul Shards, or a Hunter with an unhappy Pet or no Ammo.

    I mean gimping yourself makes everything harder to do and makes activities slower, which also adds to the waste of time I was speaking of.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And yet to be in full Naxx gear would definitely require you to waste the time to gather Poisons, Blinds and Vanishing powder. Whereas to Raid the current Raids now requires no such waste of Hours just to make my character work efficiently within it's own abilities.

    Also your analogy is inane. Since you can't equate catch-up mechanics to literally having to farm pointless shit AND Catch Up mechanics don't give you the best gear in game. So your analogy would make more sense if you said you made $4 million and the Government gave everyone else 1 Million dollars to help them to catch up to your $4 Million.
    I mentioned specifically expansion cycles. The gear you get from there is essentially catch-up gear. You will replace all your raid gear with new blues, at the very last on the new max level. I also pointed out that your "progression" is a farce since in most active theme park MMORPGs progression does not exist simply because of aforementioned resets and catch-up mechanics. You specifically pointed out that Classic Progression is more wasted and I argued against it that your ingredients collecting is less of a waste of time simply because the progress is permanent unlike live WoW where everything you do is temporarily and an illusion by design. It makes your whole argument about "progression" false. You have time gated "progression" it is not permanent and that by itself is contradicting since progression is supposed to be permanent.

  13. #33
    To be clear, this research is assuming that no one from Vanilla cancelled before 2013? My assumption is that most Vanilla players were not around to answer this survey.

    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    A lot of mechanics and design from vanilla didn't just go away once BC hit - a person doesn't have to be playing since 2004 to have experienced vanilla design elements. People who joined in BC or LK remember talent trees, they remember pre-Cata leveling, and there is still a degree of nostalgia for them.
    This is my thought. I started in 2007 right when BC started, so never experienced true Vanilla, but it was not as vastly different as it is today. I've forgotten what some of the pre-Cata zones even looked like. It will be a mix of nostalgia and new experiences for me.

  14. #34
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcosmcc View Post
    So you had an objective and worked towards it. The game rewarded you with a stronger character for investing the time. It was not a waste.
    It rewarded you with baseline character for investing your time, because a rogue with a blind and poisons is how rogue supposed to play
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Blizz is not looking to have many current players jump to Classic (at least not for very long). Blizz is looking to get a bunch of former players back into the game.
    Personally I don't think so. Blizzard's primary objective with Classic was to placate those who were baying for a Vanilla server. It's basically about good PR.

    The thing is that the whole Nostalrius debacle was turning into a serious PR nightmare. And Blizzard's response (the now infamous J Allan Brack "You think you want it but you don't" comment) simply riled those players up even more. In the end it doesn't matter how popular the Classic servers turn out to be or how many players come back to the game to play it. Classic has been worth every penny spent on it just for the positive publicity it brought Blizzard's way.

    I honestly think that Blizzard's expectations regarding how many people will play Classic are a lot lower than those of the Classic fans here who like to pontificate about how much better Classic is than the Live version of the game

  16. #36
    The Nostalgia argument is a joke by now. Enough people played it already and saw its not nostalgia. Classic is a superior MMO because it actually is a real RPG and has Social-Features that you can't just ignore.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    I don't think that kids will be a primary player base in Classic. I'm sure that it'll be at least 25+ for a majority (or even higher). A lot of people did not play in vanilla for variety of reasons.
    i would estimate even higher.

    it will be easily 30+ outside of first 2 months.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Villentretenmerth View Post
    The Nostalgia argument is a joke by now. Enough people played it already and saw its not nostalgia. Classic is a superior MMO because it actually is a real RPG and has Social-Features that you can't just ignore.
    are you one of those people who buy into any newest "fade" on market?

    streamers play whatever brings them money

    and streamers have a stable amount of "sheeps" following them everywhere

    thats not your classic playerbase. most of them wont even try it out.

  18. #38
    Of course Classic will not reach consistent players like it was back in the day simply because the player base is split now. People are not really "forced" to play classic like they were with Vanilla because it was the largest and most active MMO of its time.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Eeeeehhhm.. No... Nostalgia IS purely by your own reference. There are other words to describe envy of a certain age experienced by others.
    That's simply not the case. It's a very complex topic within philosophy and cultural theory. I would suggest Fredric Jameson's essay "Nostalgia for the Present" for some idea about what is involved.

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcosmcc View Post
    So you had an objective and worked towards it. The game rewarded you with a stronger character for investing the time. It was not a waste.
    It very much was. Hence it's removal nearly instantly from the game as a whole since it was tedious grinding just to be an effective character.

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