Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    5,570
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    This has lead to a bunch of spells being so horrible in PvP that they got removed. Spells I thought were really fun and interesting. Spells like Drain Mana, Mana Burn, Mana Tap and Viper Sting.
    In what twisted world do you live in where any of those spells were considered fun?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    And it was boring as heck. No thanks.
    I think this is too common with current playerbase. Managing resource and thinking about conserving resources is boring as heck, however reacting on proc is SUPER FUN!!

    It's like current playerbase is lazy or stupid or something...who would guess

  3. #83
    Blizzard has long decided that WoW needs to be an action-arcade game with a giant world-sized lobby with dated MMORPG mechanics, rather than an RPG with an actual world and dated MMORPG mechanics.

    They just want to please really hardcore raiders while raking in the dollars from whales and addicts.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    In what twisted world do you live in where any of those spells were considered fun?
    For caster? These definitely were and could change dynamics of combat. But if you were on receiving end, these were quite annoying. Still loved it.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    5,570
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    For caster? These definitely were and could change dynamics of combat. But if you were on receiving end, these were quite annoying. Still loved it.
    Arena matches were usually just: whoever burns fastest wins, super boring, super stupid.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Arena matches were usually just: whoever burns fastest wins, super boring, super stupid.
    Honestly, Arena is one of the reasons, why classes needed to be streamlined and dumbed down because of "teh balance".

    Fuck arenas.

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    5,570
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    Honestly, Arena is one of the reasons, why classes needed to be streamlined and dumbed down because of "teh balance".

    Fuck arenas.
    You make it sound like mana burn was very useful outside of arena.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    You make it sound like mana burn was very useful outside of arena.
    Of course it was. Are people really that un-experienced or just it's lack of imagination? I don't understand.

  9. #89
    Bloodsail Admiral TheVaryag's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Blackrock Foundry
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I know mana is still a thing. It matters to healers in both PvE and PvP. It matters to Arcane Mages (but it acts like any other resource bar mostly). The line ends there though.

    All other dps specs don't use any mana at all. The hybrids "use it" but it is just used for your heal spells, you can go out of mana and still DPS.

    This has lead to a bunch of spells being so horrible in PvP that they got removed. Spells I thought were really fun and interesting. Spells like Drain Mana, Mana Burn, Mana Tap and Viper Sting.

    It has also lead to a bunch of PvE spells being way less impactful like Mana Tide Totem, Mana Totem, Blessing of Wisdom, Mana Tap +++
    These spells used to help both Healers and mana DPS users.

    And because the mana dps users got DPS boosts from abilities like Mana Tide Totem, they balanced this with melee having other ways of getting more DPS via stuff like Windfury Totem, Blessing of Might and Strength/Agi totems.

    So, why was mana changes into what we have today?

    I personally see it as something they did just to reduce complexity in balancing. Like a potential mana using DPS running out of mana in the GOGOGO M+ mentality, can't have that can we?

    We all moan that the classes feel boring and I think mana mattering is something that would make the game more fun. It's fun to be a Shaman being loved for giving mana to your Shadow Priests. It's fun to be the Shadow Priest that gets that extra mana and can do some sweet DPS.

    Maybe reintroducing mana will not make the game more balanced, but balanced does not mean fun?

    What do you guys think?
    It's true they've made mana completely useless as it kept constantly regenerating so fast you'd not have to worrry about It unless you're a healer or arcane mage. And really, I play an arcane mage just for the sake of feeling like my mana -can- go out. I don't like It constantly regenerating and me not having to notice It's even being lowered.

    I remember very well in TBC, when I was healing on my human holy priest at the time how my mana regen was so bad at lower levels, at normal level dungeons but In time that Improved. I was able to get so much more spirit and my mana regen was so fast I'd barely run out of mana and could use more spells, more HoTs and direct heals more often. And that kind of progression that Improvement felt great. And yes, having a PRIMARY stat higher actually helped you, we should return that too, PRIMARY STATS MATTERING and not secondarywhatevertheballs stats we have now, boring as hell stats. And while at It, since Legion we're unable to look at our stats properly in the Character window, they removed our ability to do that to reduce the complexity of our classes, chars and to "Prune" everything.

    Here It doesn't matter anymore, just like Ion a few days ago made a video admitting how their class design has failed these last few expansions and how such things do matter to a class, I hope they do re-consider Mana and consider removing whatever colourfuls bars other classes have, what is it now, Maelstrom for Enchancement Shaman, lightning whatever the balls for Elemental? Nobody even has mana, they know It's a boring concept because It keeps regenning so they tried to give non-mana resource bars to classes. But to this day the only classes that should have anything close to a non-mana bar are Rogues with energy, Warriors with rage and Hunters with Focus.

    That's it, no more, no less. Three classes with their own special bars are fine, you can even have gauges If you like, like Final Fantasy 14 has to work into your rotation and do bigger spells, that's a cool idea.

    And you really have It spot on, with today's GO GO rush mentality of not only M+ but the whole game, mana Is an annoyence people cant afford to have and Blizzard catored to those idiots who wanna just rush rush rush for free quick rewards. Unfortunately, when we look at problems the game has you realize it ties into another system blizzard implemented, and then another one and then another one... so unless they do wide sweeping changes in the next expansion nothing of significance will change and at this point they pretty much have to because games like Final Fantasy 14 with It's expansion releasing In 2-3 weeks is rivaling WoW significantly, and ESO and other games but these two are WoW's main rivals right now. And they definitely know FF14 is a big rival as It's been taking WoW subs ever since WoD has been a failure, around the time FF14's first expansion came around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    In what twisted world do you live in where any of those spells were considered fun?
    Because class fantasy, they don't have to be UB3R powerful or useful, they just gotta be there sometime and that's okay. Like Divine Intervention, Intercept, Paladin Auras, Monk Forms, Warrior Stances, Traps for all hunters, poison for all rogues It's called having a complex class that Blizzard hasn't had for 4 expansions now, at minimum.
    Last edited by TheVaryag; 2019-06-19 at 11:15 AM.
    Banned on WoW since April 2015 because Blizzard doesn't wanna help me when my account got hacked, Is being hacked not a good reason to return my account to me, Blizzard? I'm looking to speak to representatives and members of Blizzard's CS and other departments to help me fix this situation, since CS has failed me I want to seek other official channels. Feel free to message about this

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Arena matches were usually just: whoever burns fastest wins, super boring, super stupid.
    I disagree. Burning mana was just another way to outsmart your oponent.
    Also, matches would have an inevitable ending instead of an inorganic fake dampening.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    It's true they've made mana completely useless as it kept constantly regenerating so fast you'd not have to worrry about It unless you're a healer or arcane mage. And really, I play an arcane mage just for the sake of feeling like my mana -can- go out. I don't like It constantly regenerating and me not having to notice It's even being lowered.

    I remember very well in TBC, when I was healing on my human holy priest at the time how my mana regen was so bad at lower levels, at normal level dungeons but In time that Improved. I was able to get so much more spirit and my mana regen was so fast I'd barely run out of mana and could use more spells, more HoTs and direct heals more often. And that kind of progression that Improvement felt great. And yes, having a PRIMARY stat higher actually helped you, we should return that too, PRIMARY STATS MATTERING and not secondarywhatevertheballs stats we have now, boring as hell stats. And while at It, since Legion we're unable to look at our stats properly in the Character window, they removed our ability to do that to reduce the complexity of our classes, chars and to "Prune" everything.

    Here It doesn't matter anymore, just like Ion a few days ago made a video admitting how their class design has failed these last few expansions and how such things do matter to a class, I hope they do re-consider Mana and consider removing whatever colourfuls bars other classes have, what is it now, Maelstrom for Enchancement Shaman, lightning whatever the balls for Elemental? Nobody even has mana, they know It's a boring concept because It keeps regenning so they tried to give non-mana resource bars to classes. But to this day the only classes that should have anything close to a non-mana bar are Rogues with energy, Warriors with rage and Hunters with Focus.

    That's it, no more, no less. Three classes with their own special bars are fine, you can even have gauges If you like, like Final Fantasy 14 has to work into your rotation and do bigger spells, that's a cool idea.

    And you really have It spot on, with today's GO GO rush mentality of not only M+ but the whole game, mana Is an annoyence people cant afford to have and Blizzard catored to those idiots who wanna just rush rush rush for free quick rewards. Unfortunately, when we look at problems the game has you realize it ties into another system blizzard implemented, and then another one and then another one... so unless they do wide sweeping changes in the next expansion nothing of significance will change and at this point they pretty much have to because games like Final Fantasy 14 with It's expansion releasing In 2-3 weeks is rivaling WoW significantly, and ESO and other games but these two are WoW's main rivals right now. And they definitely know FF14 is a big rival as It's been taking WoW subs ever since WoD has been a failure, around the time FF14's first expansion came around.



    Because class fantasy, they don't have to be UB3R powerful or useful, they just gotta be there sometime and that's okay. Like Divine Intervention, Intercept, Paladin Auras, Monk Forms, Warrior Stances, Traps for all hunters, poison for all rogues It's called having a complex class that Blizzard hasn't had for 4 expansions now, at minimum.
    I completely agree with everything this guy said.
    I also add that Mistweaver Monks, back in MoP, had to manage mana and Chi at the same time. The more Chi you managed to use the more efficient you were manawise. Not wasting Chi = better long term performance. This was some of the funniest times I had healing in WoW.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    It wasn't fun being the mana battery as a shadow priest, knowing that you were brought along just for that one feature and not because you were actually awesome. Any shadowpriest would do and you just happened to be there at the right time.
    It wasn't fun casting Innervate on that one DPS that constantly didn't know how to manage their own mana and yelled INNERVATE ME PLX I NEEDZ MANA!!! Usually Innervate would be nice to save for when the healers needed to keep us alive, but noooo, use it on the crappy DPS, of course, no problem.

    THE IDEA is good. But the implementation will not be good. There was a time for that kind of gameplay and that time was years ago. You can enjoy a little bit of that gameplay in Classic, but I do not and will not ever miss it.
    There a difference between a fuck up making a class redundant and only use being a mana battery and designing a class that relies on mana management though.

    If its done right, I think it should be a integrated to any class who uses mana and give perks for some of them. For example, disc was insanely fun to play in wrath but it relied on having the highest possible mana pool you also had to manage what you used when as a result.

    Personally I always think its better in the state it is now, until I think back to the fable series. In the original fable you had mana. You used it and it regen'd slowly, you had to carry stack of mana potions to play a caster efficiently. But you could do all sorts, for example a physical barrier cost mana to cast but you could have it up indefinitely but once you were hit it drained mana. Essentially mana shield, or you could increase movement speed etc. Come fable 3, they completely ruined the system, removed mana as a resource and put the spells into gloves you had to equip. It just isn't fun to play a caster in later titles. Which thinking of that, makes me want to play mana management in wow.

  12. #92
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    5,570
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    Because class fantasy, they don't have to be UB3R powerful or useful, they just gotta be there sometime and that's okay. Like Divine Intervention, Intercept, Paladin Auras, Monk Forms, Warrior Stances, Traps for all hunters, poison for all rogues It's called having a complex class that Blizzard hasn't had for 4 expansions now, at minimum.
    Okay? Though we clearly talked about the mana burn spells, but alright.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  13. #93
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Gothenburg/Bangkok
    Posts
    11,427
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    I think this is too common with current playerbase. Managing resource and thinking about conserving resources is boring as heck, however reacting on proc is SUPER FUN!!

    It's like current playerbase is lazy or stupid or something...who would guess
    The current design takes a lot more planing and skill than specs did back in TBC, don't bring that bullshit here. Mana did one thing, it made fights super boring if you either did wrong (shame on you) or if someone else did and the fight took longer than expeced for whatever reason but it didn't add any actual complexity on its own.

    It's a pointless mechanic that only frustrated players and thats why it's gone. Deal with it.

  14. #94
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Nearby, preventing you from fast traveling.
    Posts
    16,610
    For some specs, I don't want to see it return for ret paladins or any melee DPS though personally.

  15. #95
    Yes, mana using classes should have to manage their mana to keep dpsing. Like Monks or Rogues or hunters have to manage theirs. Giving those classes a resource than only like 2 abilities actually drain that resource is ridiculous.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  16. #96
    Not really, having alternate resources makes classes/specs more distinct.

    But i believe they should rework how resource works for DPS. DPS is too tied to Rotation and the resource is just a part of a fixed rotation for most of the time.

    Tanks have to save resources for some big incs of damage, when they know they will need a selfheal that consumes resources or when they know that there will be coming a huge damage and they will need resource to activate some skill.

    Healers have to control their mana, simple because its actually not enough to sustain a whole fight, so they have to know when to top everyone and burn their mana, and when they should save it for later or for some mechanic.

    Now, DPS? They just sustain their damage. there's hardly any "i will burn my whole resource now and i will be useless for the rest of the fight" or "i will do less dps but i will sustain it for the whole fight". it's all based on Cooldowns and rotation. you could remove all dps resources and i wouldn't notice(at least based on the classes i have played), there is hardly any decision behind any choice of resource wasting to the point i don't even care how much my spells costs anymore.

    Not like resources doesn't matter, it just doesn't give you a choice. if your rotation is "resourceBuilder > resourceSpender > resourceSpender", then you will do it everytime, i don't remember having to build up Mana/Rage/Focus for a specific part of an encounter that i will need to burn all my resources down to give more dps.

    Might be wrong tho, but thats my opinion on the mana subject, mainly because i remember actually going out of mana as a Hunter back in TBC(and sadly out of arrows too sometimes... opsie!), and i remember some mages complaining about mana too. To be fair i was pretty noob back then, and didn't understand the game, so maybe i was just being a noob.
    Signature was infraaaaaaaaaacted. Need a new one!

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    The current design takes a lot more planing and skill than specs did back in TBC, .
    Yea, nice try.. lol

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    Yea, nice try.. lol
    Care to prove otherwise?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Care to prove otherwise?
    "Do you want waste time with stupid?"

    No..

  20. #100
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Gothenburg/Bangkok
    Posts
    11,427
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    Yea, nice try.. lol
    Thats not an opinion, thats just an objective truth. If you can't deal with that fact, fine.
    But stop making a fool out of yourself on the forums.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •