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  1. #21
    People are misinterpreting the squish insofar as the belief that they are losing something in the process. I'm still astounded as to the illogical reactions people are making. It literally doesn't matter whether the max level is 120, or 60, or 40. Just like it doesn't matter whether everyone is doing 10 million dps, or 100 dps. It just reduces the number noise.

    What you're saying in the OP makes no sense though, or maybe I'm too stupid to understand it.


    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    No it's not. This is pure fantasy BS. If I'm wrong, please provide any source on this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    People are misinterpreting the squish insofar as the belief that they are losing something in the process. I'm still astounded as to the illogical reactions people are making. It literally doesn't matter whether the max level is 120, or 60, or 40. Just like it doesn't matter whether everyone is doing 10 million dps, or 100 dps. It just reduces the number noise.

    What you're saying in the OP makes no sense though, or maybe I'm too stupid to understand it.




    No it's not. This is pure fantasy BS. If I'm wrong, please provide any source on this.
    So how do you deal with feats of stengths and achievement tied to old world? How about the achievements tied to a specific ilevel bracket like insane in the membrane. They have to reconsider so many things just to make sense of an idea with cut-in-half level. Are you trying to say that ilvl will once again be pruned and squished once more??
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-19 at 11:06 PM.

  3. #23
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    Right...that's totally what's going to happen. lol

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    So how do you deal with feats of stengths and achievement tied to old world? How about the achievements tied to a specific ilevel bracket like insane in the membrane. The have to reconsider so many things just to make sense of an idea with cut-in-half level. Are you trying to say that ilvl will once again be pruned and squished once more??
    considering feats of strength are meant to stand the test of time and we have a recorded history of wow, you do nothing about it. weapon skills isn't a thing anymore yet i have a feat of streangth for maxing out unarmed combat. nothing was changed aside from weapon skills being removed. there are still achievements, there are still feats of strength, and blizz hasn't had to do anything over the years to "fix" them. a piece of gear that would require 120 right now would just require lvl 60 after the squish, no other change needed. an achievement that originally required you to be 85 during cata to get will still be there and have been achieved after you've been squished down to 60 and will still be obtainable, just at a different level bracket than it was before.

    you are making this sound tougher that it really is. yes, it is a big task, but it is a simple big task. take all the numbers related to levels, and half them. it doesn't require some grand, complicated plan.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    considering feats of strength are meant to stand the test of time and we have a recorded history of wow, you do nothing about it. weapon skills isn't a thing anymore yet i have a feat of streangth for maxing out unarmed combat. nothing was changed aside from weapon skills being removed. there are still achievements, there are still feats of strength, and blizz hasn't had to do anything over the years to "fix" them. a piece of gear that would require 120 right now would just require lvl 60 after the squish, no other change needed. an achievement that originally required you to be 85 during cata to get will still be there and have been achieved after you've been squished down to 60 and will still be obtainable, just at a different level bracket than it was before.

    you are making this sound tougher that it really is. yes, it is a big task, but it is a simple big task. take all the numbers related to levels, and half them. it doesn't require some grand, complicated plan.
    It's not a simple thing since the foundation of every game aspect related to the game is tied to level thus max level as well. They have to come up with a convincing explanation and an ingenious way of make the move fool proof.

  6. #26
    The most cool way to introduce a level squish would be to actually de-level. After BFA the heart of azeroth weakens us and consumes us and we have a whole new continent where instead of leveling up, we level down. We lose abilities but at the same time learn long forgotten techniques (bring back abilities like frostfire bolt etc). I know this would never happen but it would be the coolest way to do it. We get weaker when "leveling" up anyway. We lose haste, crit etc. So why not make it logical and we actually level down and have the level squish built in organically.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    That makes no sense. What are you even basing this theory on? You can't "merge playerbases" from two different games by making a third game. Some people will stay with the old games or leave entirely rather than moving to the new one. Also, the heavy emphasis Blizzard has put on preserving the sanctity of Classic separate from retail means they're clearly not intending to merge the two at any point.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    ROFL! ..... Not gonna happen.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    So how do you deal with feats of stengths and achievement tied to old world? How about the achievements tied to a specific ilevel bracket like insane in the membrane. They have to reconsider so many things just to make sense of an idea with cut-in-half level. Are you trying to say that ilvl will once again be pruned and squished once more??
    What do you mean how do you deal with them? What's the problem exactly?

    Assuming the levels are halved, which I think is not 100% confirmed yet, vanilla cap is 30, bc/wrath is 40, mop cata is 45, wod is 50, legion is 55, bfa is 60. What's the issue again?

    Unobtainable feats of strength can stay as they are. They are a record of your special feats over the years. Obtainable ones can get slightly modified in the description. Again, no problem whatsoever.

    Insane in the membrane is not tied to a specific level bracket, not sure what you mean. You can go and do it as a 120 lvl if you want too.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    It's not a simple thing since the foundation of every game aspect related to the game is tied to level thus max level as well. They have to come up with a convincing explanation and an ingenious way of make the move fool proof.
    No, it isnt, and no, they dont.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    Whatever drugs you on, i suggest to stop.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    So how do you deal with feats of stengths and achievement tied to old world? How about the achievements tied to a specific ilevel bracket like insane in the membrane. They have to reconsider so many things just to make sense of an idea with cut-in-half level. Are you trying to say that ilvl will once again be pruned and squished once more??
    They've already done that though when they did the ilvl squish at the end of Legion. Herald of the Titans, an achieve famous for the fact that it can only be done both at a certain level AND with a certain ilvl, has had its requirement changed to reflect the aforementioned ilvl squish. A level squish won't change anything other than achieves like that saying "...at level 80" to "...at level 50" or something.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    It's not a simple thing since the foundation of every game aspect related to the game is tied to level thus max level as well. They have to come up with a convincing explanation and an ingenious way of make the move fool proof.
    They already have level scaling. Things will not be impacted by a level squish because of level scaling. Content scales to the level ranges for that content. There is no other explanation needed then they want to do it. It is a mechanical change. There is no lore reason or explanation needed for adding higher resolution character models to the game.

    Also Insane in the Membrane is a reputation feat of strength and is not tied to level or item level. A level squish would not impact the ability to gain the feat of strength.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    It's not a simple thing since the foundation of every game aspect related to the game is tied to level thus max level as well. They have to come up with a convincing explanation and an ingenious way of make the move fool proof.
    indirectly, yes, level is tied to basically everything. but level has no determination on the stats of gear and achievements and such. it affects base stats and scaling and thats about it. blizz could cut out all the scaling info for every other level and it would work the same as now. you're confusing the importance of level when it comes to progress and how important levels are to the back end of the game where all the calculations are.

    the fact you think achievements have something to do with level fortifies that this is the case. you don't understand the role levels actually play and how meaningless they are beyond progression. whether i'm 120 going into azshara's palace or 60 won't make a difference. i also have to wonder if you think a stat squish is going to happen with the level squish which is most likely not the case. changing the base system of scaling calculations while also changing the formulas for those calculation would probably lead to massive issues and make the game unplayable for a while. it's for better for blizz to adjust the base system and then work on any formula changes.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Funkenstein View Post
    I hope that it's legitimately a squish in the existing levels without impacting leveling speeds relative to the new levels. Leveling is a chore for most people now, not just because of the feeling of never-reaching-the-end, but in actual time. If leveling to max level is equivalent to getting to level 70 or 80 right now, I'll be extremely happy.

    If all they do is scale it all back so it takes exactly as long as it does now, they're going to be in for some seriously negative feedback... and they'll have no one to blame but themselves. No one (sane) wants leveling to feel even worse than it did this expansion; and that's all increasing the amount of XP required by multitudes per level will do.

    In other words, the "squish" should just be relative to what exists now. For example, everyone's level is reduced by half. Then leveling continues as per normal. No change in the amount of XP needs or leveling time; 60 to 70 should be exactly the same now as it will be after the squish.
    I'd be surprised if it's that fast. Getting to 60 takes around 12-14 hours if you just lazily spam dungeons. Getting to 70 is less than 6 hours more. I don't have a character who leveled recently and is 70 to check, but my 82 has something under 24 hours played, and my 92 has 30-something.

    So I just kind of wonder how fast you think it actually is now. Are you saying that if they made the new max level 60, it would be unacceptable if it took more than about 12 hours to reach it?

    Because I have to say, I don't agree with that. So again, let's look at this comparison (these are very approximate but all from this patch 8.1.5):

    Getting to 60 takes 12 hours.

    Getting to 70 takes 18 hours.

    Getting to 80 takes 24 hours.

    Getting to 90 takes (say) 36 hours. (I actually think it's more like 32 but anyway).

    I don't have figures for 100 and 110.

    Getting to 120 typically takes 72 to 96 hours.

    So if the new max level was 70, would you be flipping a table and throwing your monitor out the window if it took more than 18 hours to reach max level? Because if so I think that is really unreasonable. Based on the figures above, how long do you think is reasonable for reaching max level?

  16. #36
    lvl squish is another tryhard ion idea.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I'd be surprised if it's that fast. Getting to 60 takes around 12-14 hours if you just lazily spam dungeons. Getting to 70 is less than 6 hours more. I don't have a character who leveled recently and is 70 to check, but my 82 has something under 24 hours played, and my 92 has 30-something.

    So I just kind of wonder how fast you think it actually is now. Are you saying that if they made the new max level 60, it would be unacceptable if it took more than about 12 hours to reach it?

    Because I have to say, I don't agree with that. So again, let's look at this comparison (these are very approximate but all from this patch 8.1.5):

    Getting to 60 takes 12 hours.

    Getting to 70 takes 18 hours.

    Getting to 80 takes 24 hours.

    Getting to 90 takes (say) 36 hours. (I actually think it's more like 32 but anyway).

    I don't have figures for 100 and 110.

    Getting to 120 typically takes 72 to 96 hours.

    So if the new max level was 70, would you be flipping a table and throwing your monitor out the window if it took more than 18 hours to reach max level? Because if so I think that is really unreasonable. Based on the figures above, how long do you think is reasonable for reaching max level?
    TBH, i dont think you gave any figures at all, other than the ones you pulled out of thin air.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    The most cool way to introduce a level squish would be to actually de-level. After BFA the heart of azeroth weakens us and consumes us and we have a whole new continent where instead of leveling up, we level down. We lose abilities but at the same time learn long forgotten techniques (bring back abilities like frostfire bolt etc). I know this would never happen but it would be the coolest way to do it. We get weaker when "leveling" up anyway. We lose haste, crit etc. So why not make it logical and we actually level down and have the level squish built in organically.
    This is straight up the best idea I have come across in years. That would be a really strange but awesome experience.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    I see you've been working on getting your delusion up to 300.

  20. #40
    I never really understood people that are so against stat squish or a level squish, its just a number, if i remain as strong as i was before i dont really care if it says level 10 or level 10 000, or if my max hp is 20 000 or 2 000 000.

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