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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You think WoW will have another expansion after BfA...

    It's possible, but so is a democrat winning next year's election.
    You do realize that the next expansion after bfa has already been worked on for a few years already and in not too long, the planning phase of 10.0 will start if it hasn't already

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    You have no actual argument here.

    You're just sneering. I'm not arguing from ignorance. I'm arguing from the best data I can gather, and it's not data that is genuinely in dispute by anyone but you. No-one has suggested my figures are wrong, nor are they likely to, because probably accord with their experience for dungeon-leveling in 8.1/8.1.5.

    What's your data? It appears to be absolutely nothing at all. You're now claiming that you're saying I'm wrong, but you've provided no evidence that I am in any way wrong. Until you present either:

    A) Some data - you've presented none.

    or

    B) A rational argument that lays out what you believe are the variables not taken into account, and isn't a strawman that ignores what I'm saying.

    Then you just have nothing. And you're lazily misusing a logical construct you don't even understand. That's very popular on the internet, too!
    Have a read of this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    You just explained it nicely for me, but have a read and educate yourself. Please dont bring up the idea of a strawman when you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about there.

    If you struggle to comprehend - let me help you out. Saying your data is right just because no one is proving it wrong is the very definition of an argument from ignorance. Its a favorite tool for people trying to present data with a small sample size.

    If you dont like clicking links, ill post a few highlights for you:

    Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proven false must be true, and vice versa

    Often seen in anecdotal evidence, superstitions, correlation-causation fallacies, and experiments with small sample size


    I could keep going, but i honestly think there is enough information here for you to come to the right conclusion. No offense intended, you put your limited data forward, and i explained why that data is not substantial enough to draw any conclusions. You got a bit upset, and i have explained WHY the argument you keep presenting is a fallacy.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2019-06-22 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #103
    High Overlord Chakah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    I don't think there's any other way to interpret this than a reduction of the level cap, below 120.

    I think this is a brilliant ploy. And a trial balloon only.

    I think they purposely phrased this survey question this way, knowing it would be leaked onto the internet, even though the final decision hasn't been made. Watching the discussions that happen the forums and on sites like MMO-C is hugely valuable (Hi Ion /wave).

    If the reception by us was positive, they can proceed with a risky change more confidently. If received negatively, they can save the trouble (and cost) of doing a broader survey, and avoid a change that will be rejected by the community and will cost them subscribers.

    The potential excitement and enthusiam of 'classic'-style players for future retail WoW would likely increase. The developers pushing this change get plausable deniabliity by possibly claiming that marketing was ahead of the actual development/system.

    They can also idea-mine the forums for better alternate solutions like the parallel expansion squish.

    Its just brilliant.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    Probably the easiest thing to do is cut the amount of experience needed for each level by 50% or so (except for 110-120). Keeping the same 1-120 levels but just make leveling faster.
    Nope, it's a psychological effect. As a new player: how the hell should you catch up to 120? Compared to level to 60, even if the amount of time stays the same, it's much more believeable to catch up.

    But i still hope for another solution to catch up, skipping some content for example; i would personally like the system taliesin in his video explained: allowing us to play through a whole continent rather than being forced to move on: do somebody like mists of pandaria: after level 20, you can level there up to 60. Do you like WotLK: you can do it there too. Do you like BfA... nah, let's not dive into the world of "things that never happen"
    Last edited by Velerios; 2019-06-23 at 07:08 AM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Uh no, they mean to make max level of BfA around 60 then the next expansion will increase the cap by 5-10.

    If you've been around for any amount of time regarding the iLvl/Stat Squishes, you'd know the Level Squish will be exactly the same thing.

    I'm predicting:
    Vanilla: 1-20 (if allied races start at 20 still, this means they skip all vanilla content)
    BC+LK: Now permanently fused together, 20-30 (this applies to all dungeons including heroics, raids, etc of both) [DKs start at 25 and hit 30 by the time they finish the DK intro, skipping all of their main expansion)
    Cata+MoP: 30-40 (same deal as above)
    WoD+Legion: 40-50 (DHs start at 45 and hit 50 by the end of the intro, also skipping their expansion like DKs)
    BfA: 50-55 or 50-60 (unsure which it would be)
    Expansion 8: 55-60 or 60-70, depending on if they want 5 or 10 levels for expansions moving forward.
    I think its going to be more a of a choice of what expansion you want to level in up to max level of last expansion... e.g. at level 10 (or maybe 20) you can decide "Defeat the Lich King" or "Explore Pandaria" something like that and you can then get to level 60. The new expansion would then be 60-70.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Nope, it's a psychological effect. As a new player: how the hell should you catch up to 120? Compared to level to 60, even if the amount of time stays the same, it's much more believeable to catch up.

    But i still hope for another solution to catch up, skipping some content for example; i would personally like the system taliesin in his video explained: allowing us to play through a whole continent rather than being forced to move on: do somebody like mists of pandaria: after level 20, you can level there up to 60. Do you like WotLK: you can do it there too. Do you like BfA... nah, let's not dive into the world of "things that never happen"
    ^ LIterally this.

  6. #106
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    Wow @arkanon.

    So you have no argument at all? You have no evidence, no nothing, just complaining and from the wiki, wildly misusing the term "argument from ignorance". Okay, I guess it's time for you to go on ignore, because you're just a time-waster.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    Not going to happen. AT ALL.

  8. #108
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    People are misinterpreting the squish insofar as the belief that they are losing something in the process. I'm still astounded as to the illogical reactions people are making. It literally doesn't matter whether the max level is 120, or 60, or 40. Just like it doesn't matter whether everyone is doing 10 million dps, or 100 dps. It just reduces the number noise.

    What you're saying in the OP makes no sense though, or maybe I'm too stupid to understand it.




    No it's not. This is pure fantasy BS. If I'm wrong, please provide any source on this.
    The "level-squish" is almost entirely due to Blizzard having continually gutting each and every single class every expansion to the point that you now get 10-15 or so abilities over an entire 120 levels, leaving the vast majority of levels "empty" so to say. And rather then Blizz increasing the toolkits of all of the classes to cover up for it, they instead decided to cover up the problem itself with this level squish, so instead of having 100 empty levels, we now have 40 or whatever. So it's essentially the same as covering up someone with their entrails hanging out with a blanket so you don't see the mess. They are still dying, and if you lift the blanket you'll gag from the stench, but hey, if nobody sees it, its all ok right?

    There's also the 100% guaranteed effects it's going to have on timewalking - Mainly, with a level squish, virtually ALL old content gear will likely receive the "Legacy set disabled" tag on them - This means MoP cloak, WoD ring, Legiondaries+Legion Tier, Classic->WotLK legendaries, all misc items with special procs, ect, rendered stat sticks at all levels.

    Finally, I find it much more likely that the squish would result in all old content (Everything pre-9.0) being treated the same - Virtually all pre-Legion raids have similar HP numbers now at similar player number count (MoP 25, Wrath 25, and WoD Mythic bosses could basically be used interchangebly now. Fun fact - LK 25 heroic has more HP then every other legacy boss nowadays), and outdoor mobs also have similar power levels as players barely grow in ilvl from 60-110. So I feel that blizzard would squish everything down to 60, and have everything scale 1-60.

    They would also likely make DKs and DHs start at 20, and allied races start at 1 with a lvl squish.

    Hierlooms would also likely be "shrunk" to a single upgrade level, if any at all, thus, those hundred of thousands of gold people spent to upgrade their hierlooms? Wasted!

    I can totally see Blizzard leaving flying at lvl 60 too, so that all the players have to "see the content on foot!" Pathfinder's only kick in at 60 too!

    But yea, we will see how much Blizz fucks up WoW with the level squish. Personally, if the issue is that 1-120 feels empty, Blizzard could just make it to where new characters start at 80, 90 or something, with an option to level up a character from 1 for heritage.. toys, armor, ect.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  9. #109
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    But yea, we will see how much Blizz fucks up WoW with the level squish. Personally, if the issue is that 1-120 feels empty, Blizzard could just make it to where new characters start at 80, 90 or something, with an option to level up a character from 1 for heritage.. toys, armor, ect.
    You call Blizzards method a band aid but literally apply a band aid solution to the problem. By just allowing people to skip 1-79/89 and have 80/90-120 be empty. The problem with higher levels is bloat. Expanding a classes kit just for the sake of adding new things in is dumb. Most games can do it because longevity isn't an issue or the push alternate advancement systems to bring on the "new stuff".

    I don't need more abilities that are useless. Or more abilities that just get removed for the next expansions new ability. Its not like unlocking abilities every level makes the process better. It is the same process with distractions added in. The only reason why ability unlocks matter is because you can finally use them. Leveling is the means to the end in WoW. It has nothing to do with abilities but just everything to do with the number.

    What is the point in having 120 levels if you spend 30 mins a level? At some point adjusting the experience down makes the levels irrelevant. You might as well just squish the levels.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Wow @arkanon.

    So you have no argument at all? You have no evidence, no nothing, just complaining and from the wiki, wildly misusing the term "argument from ignorance". Okay, I guess it's time for you to go on ignore, because you're just a time-waster.
    You didnt read it did you.....you just have no clue at all. Saying "what i say is right because you cant prove it wrong" is not how the world works. its not how statistics works. Its not how anything works. I have explained very clearly why your data is meaningless. You are choosing to ignore that. I even linked you the "wiki" article - you say that like it isnt credible? haha.

    Saying "unless you prove my data wrong, it is right" - is the very definition of what i linked you. I wont ignore you, i dont see the point in just ignoring someone because we disagree - i think that's an extremely childish way to behave - ignoring someone is one thing - but announcing your intention to ignore someone is just pathetic - especially when you don't actually follow through with the "threat".

    On topic and back to the start: Your data is bad - i have explained why your data is bad. I have explained the common fallacy you have fallen victim to. You have ignored all of that, and responded every time with "prove my data wrong" further proving that you fall right smack bang in the middle of arguing from ignorance.

    You do realise its possible to increase your XP gains by over 1000% at certain levels, yes? Think that might change the numbers JUST A BIT between one player and the next? yeah....your data is meaningless.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2019-06-23 at 09:13 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    that's the stupidest idea I'v seen here, like ever.
    And I'v seen people arguing that communism or fascism were good.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    It's not a simple thing since the foundation of every game aspect related to the game is tied to level thus max level as well. They have to come up with a convincing explanation and an ingenious way of make the move fool proof.
    Uh, no. It's tied to character progression, and "character level" is nothing but an arbitrary number used to measure one part of your character progression.

    When the level squish happens, and it goes down to level 60 max (arbitrary number, here), that means everything that has "levels" or requires levels in this game will be adjusted accordingly. Level 120 mobs will be now level 60 mobs. An item that requires level 120 to equip will now require level 60.

    As for level achievements, one of two things will happen: either they'll just be removed completely, or become legacy feats of strength, likely with their descriptions saying something along the lines of "Reached level 10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80/90/100/110/120 before <name of the expansion that brought the stat squish>"
    Is there anything from vanilla WoW you are not looking forward to despite your hype for Classic? Come and tell us what it is.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    The purpose of reducing the max level to 60 is to make it so when Classic Wow & Retail Wow merge in wow 2, the level caps aren't different.
    Expect to see Retail & Classic merge player bases in a new WOW2 come 2-3 years.
    I highly doubt that sir.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Hard to misinterpret it.
    Oh, people always find a way. This is the exact same debacle as when the stat squish was announced: "OMG Blizzard is making out characters weaker! Leveling will be so hard!!"

    I mean, hell, I recall seeing a post in another thread in this very forum, the poster saying "yeah, Blizz, so how are you going to recompense me for all my time invested in those levels you'll be removing?"
    Is there anything from vanilla WoW you are not looking forward to despite your hype for Classic? Come and tell us what it is.

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