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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Reiry View Post
    Traditionally BrM is the best or nearly the best for raiding and is mediocre for dungeons. The reason people switch to BrM is generally to improve their performance in raids. Prot pally is almost certainly better for the content you're doing.
    The only reason brew is mediocre for dungeons is their damage output is low.

  2. #22
    High Overlord voxnor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Prot Pally is pretty active and part of your general active mitigation is your "oh crap!" button with a hefty regular heal.

    BrewM you don't really get that. In general BrM is super durable but if you're caught in a war of attrition you'll die without a healer. You just get slowly worn down.

    So if you're running a dungeon and things go pear shaped and say your healer goes down there's far less chance of you saving it by kiting out and healing up. Not saying it's impossible, just more difficult than with a paladin.
    That makes sense - and I guess confirms that I should stay on my Paladin with the group.
    Voxnor the Fearless (Main - Protection Paladin)
    Atlas the Seeker (Alt - Frost Mage)
    Voxic the Proven Assailant (Alt - Assassination Rogue)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by voxnor View Post
    That makes sense - and I guess confirms that I should stay on my Paladin with the group.
    If your group needs clutch a lot then it might make sense.

    If you're having fun at BrM though then keep leveling it up. All it costs you is your own time and you're the person that gets to decide how that's spent.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by voxnor View Post
    I have in fact completed 7's - just not on time so you are likely not seeing them on the armory.

    And we run 6's all the time - but multiples of the same dungeons so far.

    Lack of experience is most definitely not my problem, but thanks. I have been playing WoW since launch.

    I happen to play with my Wife, sister-in-law, brother-in-law, and a friend new to WoW. So yes, 5/6/7 is where we play at. None of that bespeaks poor experience.
    Im not slighting you. You have said you are struggling while leveling and don't finish keys over 6 in time, so more expeience seems to be needed. Practice makes persistent not perfect, so you need to practice better. People,myself included, have offered aome help, tips and insight things you asked for. Only to be met with excuses, so maybe it is that mindset causing problems.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  5. #25
    High Overlord voxnor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Im not slighting you. You have said you are struggling while leveling and don't finish keys over 6 in time, so more expeience seems to be needed. Practice makes persistent not perfect, so you need to practice better. People,myself included, have offered aome help, tips and insight things you asked for. Only to be met with excuses, so maybe it is that mindset causing problems.
    Did you read through the thread?

    I don't have a 'problem'. I am happy with my keys as they are - playing with the people I play with. Not sure where in this thread you found me saying I had a problem and needed help. I was discussing wanting to switch to BrM, finding some drawbacks in utility, and agreeing with folks as the discussion evolved that my Paladin makes a better choice given my situation.

    I don't want or care to get 'better'. I play to have fun with my friends.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Ah. Welcome to leveling a brewmaster. We suck at it. Totally undertuned.

    You won't really be capable of much actual tanking until level 78, and it'll be the best around level 100. I main a BrM in mythic raids and clear +18s pretty regularly now depending on the week. When I leveled a BrM for an allied race it was so bad.

    Mastery is really important for us (not specifically as a stat but the passive buff). You don't get that until 78. Probably the two most important talents, Bob & Weave and High Tolerance are also no available until 75 and 100 respectively.

    I'd recommend leveling as a healer or dps. Tanking isn't really viable until much later. It's not you, it is the class.


    If you're interested in more of the nuance, brewmasters are designed to take the most damage of all the tanks. To compensate for that, we have stagger which makes our health pool very smooth and reliable. At max level, we just don't drop 50% all at once. Incoming damage is much smoother. This allows passive healing to sustain us much more than a normal tank, and generally results in less spam and overhealing. Plus it gives our healers breathing room since, if we're at full HP, nothing is killing us in 3 seconds.

    While leveling, we're missing all the tools that make stagger strong. At max level, with ISB up and no food/flask/rune, my stagger is 85.18%. While leveling pre 100%, you're likely looking at 50-60% at best. Meaning you're taking a lot more damage.

    Dodge is about 16%. Our master increases our chance to dodge by like 10% everytime we get hit or use blackout. On a boss, that means we dodge every 3rd blow on average, so you're taking about 20-25% additional avoidable damage there as well.

    Edit: One final note, based on the content you're doing, if you really want to switch I'd recommend switching to warrior or DK for M+. Both perform a bit better, and DK is likely getting better next patch. But all three of the plate tanks are very good, so you should probably stick with a paladin. All of the leather tanks are quite poor in M+. The only reason I push with my monk is because I raid first and foremost. If I was only doing M+, I'd be a warrior or DK.
    Really appreciate this detailed response.

    Specifically, your comments pointed at the content we do. I consider trying out a DK or War and see what I think. I played a blood DK in LK, but haven't touched it since.
    Voxnor the Fearless (Main - Protection Paladin)
    Atlas the Seeker (Alt - Frost Mage)
    Voxic the Proven Assailant (Alt - Assassination Rogue)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Snip..

    Edit: One final note, based on the content you're doing, if you really want to switch I'd recommend switching to warrior or DK for M+. Both perform a bit better, and DK is likely getting better next patch. But all three of the plate tanks are very good, so you should probably stick with a paladin. All of the leather tanks are quite poor in M+. The only reason I push with my monk is because I raid first and foremost. If I was only doing M+, I'd be a warrior or DK.
    @voxnor As someone who is in same position as you (playing around 10 keys with my family and friends) all i can say that Gotham's reply is spot on.
    Im switching between tanks a lot as i like to have it versatile and gives me the chance to look into same situations with different toolkit.

    First of all, what people forgot to mention, we are talking about different tanking mechanics - dodge/stagger on BrM, blocking on Paladin/Warrior and soak/heal on DK or Vengeance DH. Blocking as is, plays huge role in tanking as its calculating reduced damage before you get hit, the better the shield you have, more effectively you can tank.

    Out of all of them i felt most squishy on BrM monk, but that being said i have the most fun on him. As people mentioned, it gets A LOT better and easier with levels, gear and there are few Azerite traits that make life a lot easier as BrM - Boiling Brew, Staggering Strikes, Straight, No Chaser and Elusive Footwork are worth mentioning. Out of them all, again, BrM feels most health efficient and due to their mechanics, Stagger, you will have more constant flow of HP with far less or even none spikes. This will give your healer time to keep an eye on other party members.

    Warrior is simply.. well a Thunderclap, Revenge and overall quite "Selfish" tank with almost none party utility. Its good at what it does, however if you are used to carrying the party and saving them with your utility i would look at something else tbh. Its a great tank, able to eat A LOT of damage, however its healer dependent and lackluster in utility. They are also cooldown dependent and they can eat a spike hit between their shield blocks, it will get reduced by Ignore Pain, but healer will have a job to pick you up.

    DK is also really selfish tank, but their tanking mechanics fit more 5mans than warriors imo. It will take some time getting used to to joggle between Death Strikes heal, its blood shield Mastery and Bone Shield, however when you learn it and grab enough gear for the content that you are doing - simply said, you will be God tier tank.
    Out of all tanks DKs are the slowest, most selfish, health spiky but most self-sustainable of them all.

    If you arent planning to spend a lot of time in new 8.2 zones at start, if you just want to enjoy and if you have decided to put BrM on side - between Warr and DK my suggestion would be a DK. Try it out, you will immediately have a grasp of how different tank they are and how Godly they can feel.

    If you however have some time and you are ready for slight learning curve and a bit of gear farming - stick to BrM, they are quite fun, and in addition Monks have all 3 roles to play with. Class aesthetics is probably not up everybody's alley, but you can do wonders with Stagger.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2019-06-25 at 03:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by hydrium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    I play a Monk, so I'm already more mobile than my Demon Hunter.
    You might run a straight line faster than me but you're walking around that mountain, over the bridge at the ravine and down the trail of any hills. I'm going over them.

  7. #27
    To tank as low level brew take black ox statue and heal it will it tanks.

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