Thread: 8.2 patch notes

  1. #1

    8.2 patch notes

    Im a little worried about monks
    i know monks are often forgotten in the grand scheme of things when it comes to class balance, we are often left in the dark

    but this time its kinda worrysome, as a mythic raider i fear for my raidspot in the next patch

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../21#dataset=99

    if you look at the performance of top players in the raid, monks are scary low on the charts
    and classes above us are getting love, like dks, hunters and Dh's
    even arms who is almost the same level as us, gets MAJOR buffs to their toolkit

    meanwhile monks are kinda left at the bottom as the worst dps class in raiding (class not spec) as we have been for most of BoD

    anyone else worried that they will get benched because blizzard seems to forget they made our class?

  2. #2
    You took 99% percentile - which is highly unlikely for the majority of people here (hence the 99%). Windwalkers have been right dab in the middle throughout this expansion - not amazing/broken but not bad either.

    Brewmasters have been a staple in any progression setup and Mistweavers as well - so our class is more than fine.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Denizly's Avatar
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    WW was simply amazing in triple melee comps for m+ in S2.
    MW is a very strong healer with shit load of utility since the stun+ring for all, and is doing very good in both raids and m+.
    BM is a great choice for progress raiding, due to stagger.

    I see no problem here m8.

    Also you arguably get amazing talents from Conflict and Strife essence, where some specs get shit.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ymn View Post
    You took 99% percentile - which is highly unlikely for the majority of people here (hence the 99%). Windwalkers have been right dab in the middle throughout this expansion - not amazing/broken but not bad either.

    Brewmasters have been a staple in any progression setup and Mistweavers as well - so our class is more than fine.
    Brewmasters and Mistweavers are very desired in mythic raiding right now, as they're solid choices for progression rosters. Even if we take the chart you used and switch it to the harder bosses like mythic Jaina (where padding is less likely), WW monks are middle of the pack and above some ranged DPS, as well. If you have something going against you, it's just being melee. If you run a monk tank/healer, you get the 5% physical debuff anyways, and you get a DH for 5% magic debuff and a warrior for AP buff... at that point you're competing against rogues for a spot. That being said, this is less of a class issue and more of a raid balance/design issue.

    As long as you do your job, you'll be fine. Heck, volunteer to do the utility jobs on a fight that no one wants to do because "omg my deeps!", then no one will really care about your damage if you're doing the important jobs that are the difference between a wipe and a kill.
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  5. #5
    Our monk tops pretty much every fight on mythic in both the current raids, but then again he's quite a good player.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ymn View Post
    You took 99% percentile - which is highly unlikely for the majority of people here (hence the 99%). Windwalkers have been right dab in the middle throughout this expansion - not amazing/broken but not bad either.

    Brewmasters have been a staple in any progression setup and Mistweavers as well - so our class is more than fine.
    its where i am though hence the link
    the problem is that i have a raidspot as a dps, so it doesnt really matter that mws and bwms are performing well

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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    All the classes are very close together in terms of overall balance.

    Can we stop with the hyperbole "oh no my spec isn't topping 99th percentile on warcraftlogs gg raid spot" nonsense?
    well 2-6k dps pr boss fight + utility like cloak of shadows, does make quite a difference if you wanna optimize your raid so yeah, its a problem when monks are the lowest performing spec in the game overall

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denizly View Post
    WW was simply amazing in triple melee comps for m+ in S2.
    MW is a very strong healer with shit load of utility since the stun+ring for all, and is doing very good in both raids and m+.
    BM is a great choice for progress raiding, due to stagger.

    I see no problem here m8.

    Also you arguably get amazing talents from Conflict and Strife essence, where some specs get shit.
    m+ doesnt affect my raidspot though? thats not what im saying, our aoe/cleave is great, especially when we can be buffbots for outlaw and prot warriors
    our raid dps isnt up to par though

    again, i dont have a spot as a tank and a healer

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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Brewmasters and Mistweavers are very desired in mythic raiding right now, as they're solid choices for progression rosters. Even if we take the chart you used and switch it to the harder bosses like mythic Jaina (where padding is less likely), WW monks are middle of the pack and above some ranged DPS, as well. If you have something going against you, it's just being melee. If you run a monk tank/healer, you get the 5% physical debuff anyways, and you get a DH for 5% magic debuff and a warrior for AP buff... at that point you're competing against rogues for a spot. That being said, this is less of a class issue and more of a raid balance/design issue.

    As long as you do your job, you'll be fine. Heck, volunteer to do the utility jobs on a fight that no one wants to do because "omg my deeps!", then no one will really care about your damage if you're doing the important jobs that are the difference between a wipe and a kill.
    i know logs are mostly padders etc. now, but even top end monks wanna pad, we might not be as good at padding on specific fights due to our class restrictions, but we are still the lowest performing dps spec in the raidtier, classes above us got major buffs, which is the problem, as i stated in my post

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    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    Our monk tops pretty much every fight on mythic in both the current raids, but then again he's quite a good player.
    says more about your raid than your monk my logs are generally high, but i can still easely be number 5 on dps with a 99 log vs a rogue with an 80 log or a priest with a 50 log (cleave fights i know) but he shouldnt top unless your spriests etc. are sleeping

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollatorklm View Post


    says more about your raid than your monk my logs are generally high, but i can still easely be number 5 on dps with a 99 log vs a rogue with an 80 log or a priest with a 50 log (cleave fights i know) but he shouldnt top unless your spriests etc. are sleeping
    Nah we just don't do pad runs for logs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    Nah we just don't do pad runs for logs.
    you can easely get 95+ logs without padding though

  9. #9
    If anything, I am super happy we are not getting any attention at all. My MistWeaver is golden at its current state and the little mana issue we have seems to be solved with the new Essence thingy.

    Keep low, let us just be as we are, nothing is broken, nothing is crap, nothing is too OP. We are in a super spot!

  10. #10
    Yeah, for MW and BwM no change is good
    for ww i'd like some RSK/blackout kick buffs for more ST dmg! :P

  11. #11
    I wonder if reverse harm is going to handle the ST damage increase. 8% of a tanks hp every 10 seconds , assuming its unchanged is around a straight 2k dps increase and it costs less then TP (which is probably negligible). I guess that does force us to use it as our Essence but honestly its probably one of the biggest buffs any spec gets.

  12. #12
    Is it really though? While 2k DPS seems like a lot, other specs are still benefiting from really solid essences that are already ahead of ww in raids.

    I have a hunch that it won't be enough, sadly.

  13. #13
    memory of lucid dreams on rogue @Rank1 is 2500 dps

    but yeah the essence isnt bad for ww, problem is how clunky its gonna be to keep track of tanks, and our dmg scaling with what tank it is (gief a bear lol) and the gear of the tank

    its just unnecessarily complicated for a spec thats already more advanced than classes far above it in terms of dps, if it was something we could use to go above and beyond, it would be great, but having super annoying mechanics that we have to deal with, just to keep up, and maybe not even keep up, just feels annoying

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollatorklm View Post
    memory of lucid dreams on rogue @Rank1 is 2500 dps

    but yeah the essence isnt bad for ww, problem is how clunky its gonna be to keep track of tanks, and our dmg scaling with what tank it is (gief a bear lol) and the gear of the tank

    its just unnecessarily complicated for a spec thats already more advanced than classes far above it in terms of dps, if it was something we could use to go above and beyond, it would be great, but having super annoying mechanics that we have to deal with, just to keep up, and maybe not even keep up, just feels annoying
    Guess I'm one of the ones that likes adding even more complexity that's a tad bit annoying. But having 2 macros and actually keeping track of Tank HP is... awesome!

    On the other hand, you can simply use it on cooldown since it's 40 Energy instead of 50 for 2 Chi + random healing. It's not bad.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ymn View Post
    Guess I'm one of the ones that likes adding even more complexity that's a tad bit annoying. But having 2 macros and actually keeping track of Tank HP is... awesome!

    On the other hand, you can simply use it on cooldown since it's 40 Energy instead of 50 for 2 Chi + random healing. It's not bad.
    i agree, complexity is good, if it is rewarding, but having unnecessary complexity to do suppar dps, its just bad design imo
    why go through hoops and play advanced playstyles, when you can play easier specs like DH and do 20+% more dps with 3 buttons? xD

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollatorklm View Post
    i agree, complexity is good, if it is rewarding, but having unnecessary complexity to do suppar dps, its just bad design imo
    why go through hoops and play advanced playstyles, when you can play easier specs like DH and do 20+% more dps with 3 buttons? xD
    I agree. I don’t think complexity, on its own, is good. Needless complexity is hallmark of bad design in my opinion.

    Complexity should correlate with performance. The more complex and difficult to correctly execute the more rewarding it should be. Right now, ww monks are basically more complex demon hunters with inferior damage, less useful utility, and slightly superior survivability and arguably better vertical movement.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    I agree. I don’t think complexity, on its own, is good. Needless complexity is hallmark of bad design in my opinion.

    Complexity should correlate with performance. The more complex and difficult to correctly execute the more rewarding it should be. Right now, ww monks are basically more complex demon hunters with inferior damage, less useful utility, and slightly superior survivability and arguably better vertical movement.
    exactly
    we are just worse DH's

    more survivability? how so? dhs have the highest selfhealing of all dps classes without a loss of dmg in a raid environment
    and touch of karma is a dps ability, which is has to be used as if you wanna compete on dmg, its a good 125k dmg pr cast, which is around 3-5% of your dmg

    better vertical movement? xD

  18. #18
    Blizzard had to give WW a good conflict and strife ability because we would be up shit creek without it.

    Easier for Blizzard to give us reverse harm and say, well your DPS is close enough now so we do not need to do anything about it.

    WW really needs a good review and rebuild because the current form is so limited. Our original foundation was not perfect, but it was a lot better than the current foundation. Blizzard could give us cool things like chi explosion but as we are right now, Blizzard can't do anything interesting with WW.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Juliansfist View Post
    Blizzard had to give WW a good conflict and strife ability because we would be up shit creek without it.

    Easier for Blizzard to give us reverse harm and say, well your DPS is close enough now so we do not need to do anything about it.

    WW really needs a good review and rebuild because the current form is so limited. Our original foundation was not perfect, but it was a lot better than the current foundation. Blizzard could give us cool things like chi explosion but as we are right now, Blizzard can't do anything interesting with WW.

    i kinda agree, i was talking with a monk friend about what they could do longterm for monks
    we have always had really poor scaling, and one of the reasons is that haste is so weak for us, but with how ww is atm, haste cant really be any good

    i guess they could give us a passive that made haste kinda like a multistrike effect for windwalkers, but that would redesign how haste works, and make it more like a mastery...

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