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  1. #1

    What would no horde/alliance mean for the kaldorei?

    What do you think this could mean for the night elves? While I am thinking of their recent war, it doesn't have to stop there.

    In the event we lose the 2 factions after BFA - I reckon wars and conflicts will shift to individual races rather than universally a group. But what would it mean for the night elves' efforts?

    1. I reckon their conflict would shift to driving the orcs out of their homeland

    2. With no horde, the forsaken led united front dissipates.. but night elves will hate the Forsaken, Trolls and Orcs - who were the main 3 races present in the War of Thorns. Goblins are too ambiguous to blanket hate. No allied races were involved either

    3. I reckon the broken isles night elven and nightborne occupants would get on - probably even find a new base on the broken isles and from there supply their conquest on Kalimdor.

    Now I am not sure the night leves will re-take Azshara - but it could be an interesting move.. the night elves have 16 zones after them, their numbers are far too few to exist in all of them.

    My guess is one of two things.. they will relocate to the Broken isles and keep pressing into take their territories back from the orcs.
    They will instead camp it out Long vigil style in kalimdor till they've driven everyone out of all their zones. Though their numbers are small they won't care.

    They return to their xenophobia. If you're not night elf or night elf related - you don't belong
    Night elf related includes: Shal'dorei, Cenarians, Illidari mainly
    Former alliance races still need permissions: Humans, blue Thalassians, Dwarves, Gnomes, Huojin Pandaren etc
    Some former horde races would be permitted: Tauren, Highmountain, Tushui Pandaren

    Draenei and Worgen may be exempt.

    It would return to kill on sight for Orcs, Troll, Undead and goblins.


    What do you think?

  2. #2
    I don't see why they'd suddenly become xenophobic about their recent allies if this is occurring after BfA.

    Worgen would very much hold a spot within their culture for sure considering Genn himself had the worgen help with the reclamation of Darkshore.

    If anything, no Horde races would be allowed near again though due the burning of Teldrassil. Over years, you might see a shift in attitude to their old allies, like thinking they're superior to others again if they meet success after success while alone.

    I would imagine though they would return to Darkshore to cement their hold on it, and start possibly a new home there.

  3. #3
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Not much would change I reckon, except maybe Forsaken would be working side by side to rebuild Darkshore with them because power of friendship.

  4. #4
    Its not really xenophobia but they should return to be extremly protective regarding their woods.
    If the night elfs drive the orcs and goblins out of their homeland we are back where we were at the end of MoP, Azshara will probably stay for the Goblins. (But I would love to see a Azshara warfront storywise)
    There are a few other areas that are contested in Kalimdor like Stonetalon... while in Feralas is only an Tauren outpost.

    So to conclude... wether there will be Horde & Alliance at the end of BFA. Trolls, Orcs, Forsaken and Goblins should be kill on sight and no trade should happen with them.
    Also they should not take just Darkshore but also Ashenvale. Darkshore is haunted by its past and since cataclysm just a complete mess, also before Teldrassil, Ashenvale was their home.

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    They would died out. Human potential is like spice - you take it once and its over. Should nelves were ever separated from their overlords their society would be crushed by a wave of depression and melancholy. Suicide rates would skyrocket, and birth rates would dive to 0%. Last nelf would die out roughly 12 days after such separation.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Tenebra's Avatar
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    Former alliance races still need permissions: Humans, blue Thalassians, Dwarves, Gnomes, Huojin Pandaren etc
    ... Or they could just band together, crush the Kaldorei upstarts, and claim those lands for themselves. They don't -need- to do anything.
    Remember, control demands sacrifice. Power never comes without a price. You risk losing those closest to you in order to save them. This is the bargain we have made.

  7. #7
    Guys, don't worry, Blizzard said the NIght elves had their revenge, they can all be besties now! >->

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Its not really xenophobia but they should return to be extremly protective regarding their woods.
    .
    Fair point. Their woods, their lands - they would be protective about them for sure. But if I may make a comment I think is useful to bear in mind with the night elves, is that it's not just their woods they'd be invested in, they'd build new temples and cities too, worship elune, practice the arcane as well as druid stuff.

    I know fans tend to think woods is all night elves care about and some think its all they are about, but it isn't just that (they are not just only forest elves), there is more they also care deeply about - Elune, the arcane (especially the aracne being responsibly used), the fel too (if they're illidari) - and remember their priorities would have shifted since we first met them in Warcraft 3 due to all the events, and they would now be several varying communities of them, not just preist and druid ones, but arcane and fel ones who've all now met and fought together,

    It's very sad to often see fans still stuck in the opening presentation of a race , especially when its background and pre history open a lot more for them than you initially are shown in the debut. Alas, it is a developers duty to show new things and bring out previously unknown or rather unseen aspects of a race they design.

    However when we fans discuss things, we tend to only focus on what we have seen in the most visible way, the one outstanding way, and for night elves, sadly that was only WC3, they were not outstanding after that at all..therefore the wc3 state and visualisation remains the most powerful even though there is much more to their lore.

    [Not a criticsm, just an observation and comment] - after all their woes, maybe they'd get some serious development that shows all the other parts to them in an exicting and appealing way.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    after all their woes, maybe they'd get some serious development that shows all the other parts to them in an exicting and appealing way.
    Maybe once Danuser, Afrasiabi, and Golden are fired. Nah, even then they'll keep shitting on them, if only because the Horde cries its eyes out when the story isn't about them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."

  10. #10
    Why would the Night Elves miss the Alliance? Did they help them? Like...ever? I remeber in classic there was ONE Human Paladin in Ashenvale who tried to help. In Cataclysm they managed to send a whole of 5 Gnomes to defend Ashenvale...the operation in Barrens was more an offensive on its own than a support of Kaldorei defences.

    And now in the fanfiction-quality War of Thorns not een the Draenei helped them despite having a city nearby and a spaceship in orbit. The Worgen helped later on, but they did so because of a bilateral freidnship, not on the Alliance order.

    So what value does the Alliance have for the kaldorei? I would say none. Absolutely none. And without Sylvanas the Horde would have never undergone their newest fanfiction-assault on the oh-so-poor-helpless-and-pitiful kaldorei.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    And now in the fanfiction-quality War of Thorns not een the Draenei helped them despite having a city nearby and a spaceship in orbit.
    Acording to Elegy the Argus campaign had diminished the draenei greatly. Even though the draenei were hardly in a position to assist the beleaguered night elves, some brave souls had traveled to do so. And after the Burning, some of the survivors were evacuated to Azuremyst.

  12. #12
    They seem cool with the worgen, at least. I still want those two to work together on retaking Gilneas.

  13. #13
    I'll repeat once more, sell them to zenimax and let them be Bros and Playable in Elder Scrolls, atleast Todd and co. will briing them back to their old selves, and we will see Green Pact Maiev eating Ayleid hearts with Flin.

    Also make them Allies with the Hist just for shits and Giggles.

  14. #14
    If the Night Elves were to break off and do their own thing, it would most likely be a setup for Anduin to come to their rescue and show them that together they'll overcome any obstacle... because this is no longer a story based on an RTS(Armies/Factions) but based on a few hero/characters and the majority of the populaces exist to further develop the characters.


    If they went back to a more RTS(races/factions) driven story instead of the character one and did this where the Horde and Alliance splintered, it could be interesting. However as the Night Elves are now, they stand no chance against the Horde races, even 1 on 1. Realistically, the Night Elves on Kalimdor should be spent. They just lost all of their settlements and defenders and probably most of their population(now they're like every other playable race!). Their remaining forces then tried to retake Darkshore, but they fought against undead... even if they won... they did it at cost to their remaining forces.

    Their biggest problem is something you overlooked, when you said no allied race took part, that's the Undead Night Elves. I see the U.N.Elves stomping the remaining N.Elves, for a few reasons.
    Necromancy: Every Night Elf that dies, adds to the Undead. And there's many many corpses lying around aswell.
    Veterans: After the War of the Roses, most of the defenders died, many of them veterans. After the Battle of Darkshore, more died. The remaining Night Elves' veterans are probably far and few, while there's many dead ones to raise.
    Attrition/Morality: The Night Elves just lost all of their homes, most of their population is dead and now those who fought to defend them, are now coming to kill them. They need food, they need sleep and they need rest, something the undead need none of.

    Say we ignore the Undead Night Elves, because it ruins your idea. Say the Orcs, Trolls and Tauren pull back to Ashenvale because why would they still be in Darkshore? The Night Elves would have to attack Zoram'gar, a heavily fortified base that would still have Orcs/Trolls/Tauren defending it and they'd probably lose. If they managed to take it, they'd then push into Ashenvale, Which the Orcs, Trolls and Goblins would be protective of for it's lumber and the Night Elves just realistically wouldn't have the numbers to take the entire forest back.

    Been saying this for a while since BFA first started, what I think the Night Elves best bet(even outside of this no faction scenario) is that they should have relocated to Val'Sharah where they already have towns and such and make Black Rook Hold their new capital. It's close to one of their important trees, has a Worgen Gilnean village nearby and Night Elf ruins to the south that they can eventually retake(peacefully working with the Ghosts) and maybe even build a friendship with the NightBorne(or go to war with them outside of this factionless scenario). After a couple years of licking their wounds and training up some new recruits, they could eventually head back and retake their lands.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Been saying this for a while since BFA first started, what I think the Night Elves best bet(even outside of this no faction scenario) is that they should have relocated to Val'Sharah where they already have towns and such and make Black Rook Hold their new capital.
    In warcraft stories you never need to lick your wounds. At least in the story of world of warcraft, no one needs to lick their wounds. Just got utterly destroyed but need an invasion army for the next plot? Not even an inconvenience.

    Also: Only a fraction of the night elfs can be risen to forsaken, from my understanding only the ones that are ready to join the enemy that just killed and their kind. If they left Darkshore to the Horde a lot of prisoners would have died and the refugee on the Draenei isle would be in danger as well, also these people could then be risen to undead aswell. Ashenvale and Darkshore may be completely deforested if they wait to long. Also their holy places would be gone which may makes it impossible to make the night warrior ritual.

    If night elfs bring back their full force, its not just night elfs, its also Fulborgs, the Sons of Cenarius, Dryards, Treants and Stonegiants. And maybe even Cenarius, he is actually the protector of Ashenvale.

    Haveing almost the entire might of the horde against them (at least in theory) is a problem for the night elfs since wow started.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    What do you think this could mean for the night elves? While I am thinking of their recent war, it doesn't have to stop there.

    In the event we lose the 2 factions after BFA - I reckon wars and conflicts will shift to individual races rather than universally a group. But what would it mean for the night elves' efforts?

    1. I reckon their conflict would shift to driving the orcs out of their homeland

    2. With no horde, the forsaken led united front dissipates.. but night elves will hate the Forsaken, Trolls and Orcs - who were the main 3 races present in the War of Thorns. Goblins are too ambiguous to blanket hate. No allied races were involved either

    3. I reckon the broken isles night elven and nightborne occupants would get on - probably even find a new base on the broken isles and from there supply their conquest on Kalimdor.

    Now I am not sure the night leves will re-take Azshara - but it could be an interesting move.. the night elves have 16 zones after them, their numbers are far too few to exist in all of them.

    My guess is one of two things.. they will relocate to the Broken isles and keep pressing into take their territories back from the orcs.
    They will instead camp it out Long vigil style in kalimdor till they've driven everyone out of all their zones. Though their numbers are small they won't care.

    They return to their xenophobia. If you're not night elf or night elf related - you don't belong
    Night elf related includes: Shal'dorei, Cenarians, Illidari mainly
    Former alliance races still need permissions: Humans, blue Thalassians, Dwarves, Gnomes, Huojin Pandaren etc
    Some former horde races would be permitted: Tauren, Highmountain, Tushui Pandaren

    Draenei and Worgen may be exempt.

    It would return to kill on sight for Orcs, Troll, Undead and goblins.


    What do you think?
    Blood Elves / Nightborne are very close. if the factions dissolve they will remain united. thalyssra joined the horde for the blood elves if the horde dissolves they will remain attached to the blood elves.

    My opinion I hope that an elven commonwealth is created with the 4 races of playable elves as a faction in the lore

  17. #17
    It'd mean welcoming their new orc overlords!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    In warcraft stories you never need to lick your wounds. At least in the story of world of warcraft, no one needs to lick their wounds. Just got utterly destroyed but need an invasion army for the next plot? Not even an inconvenience.
    That's what Humans and Orcs are for. We lose a bunch of them and next expansion, they make up the bulk of our forces... :/

    But lets ignore the problems of endless soldiers and consider losses are important.

    Also: Only a fraction of the night elfs can be risen to forsaken, from my understanding only the ones that are ready to join the enemy that just killed and their kind. If they left Darkshore to the Horde a lot of prisoners would have died and the refugee on the Draenei isle would be in danger as well, also these people could then be risen to undead aswell. Ashenvale and Darkshore may be completely deforested if they wait to long. Also their holy places would be gone which may makes it impossible to make the night warrior ritual.
    I have yet to see what the ratio of people who are willing are, but it seems to be equal. It seems to really not matter how much the Night Elves hate the Forsaken/Horde once they're resurrected as their "Evilselves" take over.
    If they don't leave it, a lot more people will die. Prisoners tend to not be killed, people fighting a war of attrition against the undead tend to become undead.
    If they don't wait until they've recovered and bolstered their forces, they wouldn't be able to take back their forests and I doubt 2 country size zones would be completely deforested, the war wasn't even for the lumber, but to remove the hostile inhabitants who are remaining hostile.(Felwood is gonna be neighbors with Blightwood and Plaguewood soon)
    Val'sharah has all the holy places they need, we killed Ysera to even defend a temple of Elune that we've never even heard of before that. Also the Night Warrior is a death sentence to those who perform it and the Night Elves don't need it.

    If night elfs bring back their full force, its not just night elfs, its also Fulborgs, the Sons of Cenarius, Dryards, Treants and Stonegiants. And maybe even Cenarius, he is actually the protector of Ashenvale.
    Most of which would become more fuel to the undead machine if not done properly. Also Cenarius, taking sides in a faction conflict? He learned his lesson last time and hasn't helped the Night Elves against the Horde since.

    The best way I think to explain this is like losing a boxing match and wanting a rematch right then and there... it just doesn't work

    Haveing almost the entire might of the horde against them (at least in theory) is a problem for the night elfs since wow started.
    Only because of stupid decisions by them and writers. Allying with your neighbors enemies who are across the ocean... who you've never met before? In the beginning I would say the Night Elves had the superior force to any other race on the continent, maybe even a match for the combined Orc/Troll/Tauren Horde... but as it is now, the Night Elves come off as one of the weakest of the faction races on the continent.

    WoW is an mmo with 2 factions so there needs to be balance, but it just never made sense that the Night Elves to join the Alliance. Makes no sense that the N.Elves and Forsaken would join any other faction to be honest.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    If they don't leave it, a lot more people will die. Prisoners tend to not be killed, people fighting a war of attrition against the undead tend to become undead.
    They used the prisoners for target practice, they don't gave a damn.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    They used the prisoners for target practice, they don't gave a damn.
    One of the many reasons it's funny to see people say the Horde isn't evil with a straight face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."

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