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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Challenge is a thing no more.
    t. I full clear heroic by week 2

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    When was the last time warlock was bad? Gotta be before Mists of Pandaria, warcraftlogs doesn't go back that far.
    They were pretty much benched the first raid in WOD and Legion. Very bad, basically unplayable. Otherwise, they have been pretty much top DPS.

  3. #43
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Sweden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    They were pretty much benched the first raid in WOD and Legion. Very bad, basically unplayable. Otherwise, they have been pretty much top DPS.
    Really?

    WoD: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/6/ Demo is one of the most popular specs, and while not at the top, it certainly seems to be holding its own.

    Legion: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10/# All three specs are playable. Affliction and Demo are both performing at the top.

    I'm sure warlocks have had their issues here and there, but they've always been one of the strongest and consistent class to raid with.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    Really?

    WoD: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/6/ Demo is one of the most popular specs, and while not at the top, it certainly seems to be holding its own.

    Legion: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10/# All three specs are playable. Affliction and Demo are both performing at the top.

    I'm sure warlocks have had their issues here and there, but they've always been one of the strongest and consistent class to raid with.
    Really. Those only show the last two weeks. Locks at the start of both of those expacs were terrible and were constantly buffed. I remember because our GM mained Lock and didn't go with us on progression.

  5. #45
    I'll just wait what logs say once they hit and recommend everyone else to do the same.

    Frost DKs going from god tier in Uldir to bottom of the barrel trash in Dazar'alor with just miniscule balancing changes was a lesson for me.

  6. #46
    Spriests and affli on dogs and coven in antorus was an insult to class balance
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    STM never existed....

    Working out the math and figuring out composition and strategy beforehand makes the raid not exist!!!!!!

    ???????????????????????

    ??????????????????????????????

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    I wouldnt expect a casual to understand, dont hurt yourself.

  8. #48
    Warlocks can excel on basically every encounter

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaWarlock View Post
    Warlocks spend half the time dogshit, and the other half overpowered.

    Look at legion
    The expansion where Affliction was a top tier spec in literally every single raid but EN, and Demo was very good in a lot of single-target fights as well? Hell even Destro got its times to shine. Meanwhile, the closest equivalent Mages had Fire be great until it got nerfed to the ground, Frost be a mediocre/good-ish spec all xpack long, and Arcane be the meme it's always been after HFC.

    Yeah, poor Warlocks. I'll also cry on the graves of DKs, Shamans and Priests way, wayyyy before I shed a single semblance of a tear for them. The only spec that was more consistently good than Aff in Legion was Guardian, who got annihilated in BfA while Affliction was good in Uldir and top tier again in BDA/CoS, even if only because Blizzard seemingly cannot balance multidotting.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    I remember because our GM mained Lock and didn't go with us on progression.
    I remember the only classes benched in EN were dks and shamans because literally their max sim dps was below minimal dps requirements for Ursoc mythic (dps check boss).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Meanwhile, the closest equivalent Mages had Fire be great until it got nerfed to the ground,
    * - If you had the legendary bracer. Which many mages didn't have until much later, because basically NH forced them to swap to frost if they didn't already have the fire bracer. No-bracer fire was dogshit after the nerfs, and pre-NH people would have on average 1-3 leggos and there was still leggo softcap and no offspec separate chance, which was added later.

  11. #51
    I don't have any issue with warlocks being strong as they are a pure dps class. Pure dps class when none of their specs perform well=dead class. Rogues had this issue at the start of Highmaul and T11, and mages are close to being in that state right now.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I didn't say warlock, did I? I said Shadow priest. Because for whatever reason you included that in your "this class has been good for ages"-spiel. It's factually wrong, so I got a kick out of correcting you. Is that an issue?
    I didn't say anything about shadow priests being good for ages, perhaps you should check who you're quoting.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    I don't have any issue with warlocks being strong as they are a pure dps class. Pure dps class when none of their specs perform well=dead class. Rogues had this issue at the start of Highmaul and T11, and mages are close to being in that state right now.
    Doesn't apply only to pure dps, atm dks are kinda dead for mythic raiding since blood got gutted, paladins were in that state in Uldir, luckily holy got buffs in the form of glimmer build and prot became more viable in BODA since many fights can benefit from its utility after Uldir was basically Brewmaster domination, ret is still struggling due to the fact how often melee unfriendly fights pop out so you only want your buff boys (dh, warr, ww) and rogue, rest of the melee are a bit in limbo. Wish next raid is better on that front. Shamans in Uldir were also shit on all fronts, resto was bottom together with holy pala, but they got buffs, ele too, enha however is kinda in the ret bucket - melee with no mandatory utility.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I wouldnt expect a casual to understand, dont hurt yourself.
    my brain is melting to your superior hardcoreness

  15. #55
    it looks like a pretty good raid overall so far

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    They weren't terrible.
    It really doesn't matter how many times you say it - you're ignorant, i get it, you want to suit your agenda, but Warlocks were absolute dogshit at the start of Legion. They weren't just terrible, they were almost useless. And then they were fixed and affliction became god tier.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    my brain is melting to your superior hardcoreness
    Thankyou for recognizing my superiority.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    Shadow stopped being good at the end of WotLK and became niche from then on.

    Tiers which were cleared on the first available week on mythic arent real raids, debate me.

    People cry about multi dotters because it is a niche thing, only 3 specs can do it.

    People shouldnt be angry that 1 spec gets to do 10-15% more than normal in niche situations, they should be happy that the raid boss is easier because of it.

    Casuals do not deserve an opinion EVER.
    I'm a heroic raider, not sure if that makes me casual in your eyes, but the thought that casuals don't deserve an opinion is patently absurd....just, straight up, no argument needed.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Really. Those only show the last two weeks. Locks at the start of both of those expacs were terrible and were constantly buffed. I remember because our GM mained Lock and didn't go with us on progression.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...t=95&boss=1877

    Standings over the entire tier. You will notice as most of us remember that affliction was consistently a top spec through the entire tier.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
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    Demacia
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    3,105
    Some specs are either OP or shit the entire expansion to the point where Ret's consistently mediocre performance is enviable.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

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