2023-2024 NBA Thread

[Pendulous]

Only five players in double digits, but I'll take 29 from Conley and 24 from Donovan.

[xskarma]

That was one hell of a game for Gordon Hayward. Ties regular season mark for points scored. Celtics beat Cavs. LOT of run for the bench units it felt like.

[Smash Adams]

I actually kind of love it that Kawhi's like, fuck it, I'm playing when I feel like it. There's no reason for pretty much any player to play a back to back. If your team is good enough to win the championship, they'll make the playoffs with you skipping a bunch of games. If they're not, why bother?

I'm totally in favor of the players taking their health in their own hands when they can.

I think my favorite part has been the hilarious overreaction from ESPN. Last week it happened on a game they carried and they sent out Rachel Nichols to throw a fit. This time they went all in and dedicated an absurd amount of air time to it all day. Evidently Doris Burke, in addition to her role as an awful, awful commentator, is also a doctor that knows better than Kawhi and the Clippers medical team.

They play the Rockets in Houston next Wednesday on the first of another back to back. And ESPN has that game again. I hope, hope, hope he sits that one. Question is, how would they cover it if he sits the next night instead when they don’t have a standing interest in the game?

[Pendulous]

You aren't getting jingled anymore, you're getting Bojangled

[xskarma]

Fuuuuuuuuuu Gordon Hayward fractured his hand. Getting opinions on Monday about Surgery or whatever, won't know severity and how long he's out till then.

Such a fucking shame, cause he was on FIRE the last few games.

[xskarma]

Forgot to comment on the game yesterday as I wanted to get to bed swiftly. Good game against a quality Mavericks team. Kemba coming through clutch yet again.

Hayward is out some 6 weeks with a fractured hand that he was operated on last evening. Hopefully we can keep playing like we did yesterday and keep rolling till he's back.

[StillMcfuu]

I think my favorite part has been the hilarious overreaction from ESPN. Last week it happened on a game they carried and they sent out Rachel Nichols to throw a fit. This time they went all in and dedicated an absurd amount of air time to it all day. Evidently Doris Burke, in addition to her role as an awful, awful commentator, is also a doctor that knows better than Kawhi and the Clippers medical team.

They play the Rockets in Houston next Wednesday on the first of another back to back. And ESPN has that game again. I hope, hope, hope he sits that one. Question is, how would they cover it if he sits the next night instead when they don’t have a standing interest in the game?

Old guard aren't happy about "load management".

I can see where they are coming from, but I also think we've taken a pretty big leap in the science of athletics in the past couple of years and it all comes at the expense of player health for higher performance.

[StillMcfuu]

Melo is back, still has the single smoothest jump shot in the league. Still can make a longer highlight video of all the open looks he gives up on defense.

I've never seen a single player be so damn lackadaisical on defense. It's not like no one is telling him, it's known. He puts in effort on one side of the floor, but not the other...

Like.... wtf... I could see if he was giving up looks if he was hedging or being overly aggressive in passing lanes, but no the guy is just watching, standing around and watching.

Does he even want to be in the NBA?

[Crissi]

Luka is a monster. Throughly enjoyed that beat down. Kinda amazing we went form Dirk to Luka. Kinda like Robsinon to Duncan.

[xskarma]

Man, Celtics have been on a West Coast trip, which means I've been missing all their games cause they START at a time when I need to be in bed. Last night's game against Denver, we lost Kemba to what looked like a scary injury, and then still managed to rally from 19 points down to nearly win the game.

This team has shown so much heart already this year, especially compared to last year, it;s amazing.

Would be nice though if Celtics players could stop getting hurt all the time.

[StillMcfuu]

Luka is a monster. Throughly enjoyed that beat down. Kinda amazing we went form Dirk to Luka. Kinda like Robsinon to Duncan.

Luka is a special talent, I'm a bit afraid his career might be slightly shorter because he isn't exactly the most athletic person in the world, but other wise future looks bright for him.
I know people avoid the comparison for some reason, but Luka plays a lot like current LeBron, crafty finishes, can jump if he needs to, excellent court vision, solid shot. Seeing as LeBron is Luka's favorite player, it makes sense.

PS @xskarma Celtics are playing great basketball, no doubt. I think they are the best of the east right now.

[Rennadrel]

Wow, Embiid put up a giant donut tonight, he got completely shut down by the Raptors defense. He must still be having flashbacks to the Kawhi dagger that ended their season.

[Blueobelisk]

Lakers are crushing. 17-2. I need to watch one of their games to see why they're so good...

On the 4th they play #6W Utah Jazz.
On the 13h they play #3E Miami Heat.

I guess I can catch both of those games. Doesn't seem like any other team is worth watching. Not even Knicks/Nets to see how they're doing.

[Rennadrel]

Pundits thought the Raptors were going to be crap this year (ironically just like last year). At 15-4 and missing both Lowry and Ibaka for the last two weeks, they look pretty damn good. Absolutely trashed Utah tonight, 77-37 at the half and still won by 20 points in the end.

[StillMcfuu]

Lakers are crushing. 17-2. I need to watch one of their games to see why they're so good...

On the 4th they play #6W Utah Jazz.
On the 13h they play #3E Miami Heat.

I guess I can catch both of those games. Doesn't seem like any other team is worth watching. Not even Knicks/Nets to see how they're doing.

They are a good team, but they have a really weak schedule. The next week or 2 is a tough stretch for them, how they come out the other side will be indicative of how good they are. If they have a bad stretch, I fully expect them to look to try and find more depth. Whether they have any value that they can actually move to make deals happen is the real question.

I think the Nets are learning they sold their soul (DLo) to get KD and Kyrie and it's not working out for them.

[ProphetFlume]

I wonder how people would think of Kyrie had Lebron never went back to the Cavs.

[StillMcfuu]

knicks, kyrie, and Westbrook

I think Kyrie needs to have an alpha dog, he can't lead the game. Kyrie and LeBron was Kyrie's best situation. As you said it is very much a way for Kyrie to kind of maintain the fact that he is in charge in his mind, but there is someone else who is really in charge, but appreciates that he has this mad dog for back up. No way Kyrie could ever claim to be better than James, but no one was questioning him either so he definitely got to pretend it at times. And James would let him off the leach for some leader situations which Kyrie excelled in. I dont know if it's going to work with KD, KD is the most prolific offensive threat since prime McGrady, but KD also kind of stops there. He is a smart dude, good to great defender, but not a floor general. Which... Kyrie is actually a proficient passer when he isn't hogging the ball, but that's so rarely.

I see KD more like Kawhi, you can't run an offense through them, but they are the focal point. Where as Westbrook or Kyrie want to run the offense, but they aren't the right player for that, and with James on the floor there is no question who the offense is running through, but James is more than willing to let others be the focal point.
I also think they are relics of an older style basketball, especially Kyrie, out there like he is still playing at the Rucker.

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I wonder how people would think of Kyrie had Lebron never went back to the Cavs.

I think there will be a special area in the hall of fame for players who were never as good as we thought they were and Kyrie, Westbrook, and Melo are all going to be the lead class. And that's painful for me to say because I love Melo as a player.

[StillMcfuu]

The best player in that area: Kobe.

Idk about Kobe man... dude was a 5x champion, he did it 3x with Shaq, but... really that's it. I mean unless you want to count Pau Gasol or a past his prime and relevancy Ron Artest. Lakers dominated for 10 years, and Kobe was the common denominator.

Harden is the most borderline person I named, namely because he has improved drastically, but i have serious doubts about his actual scoring efficiency. Rockets live or die on him and in the playoffs it's mostly die because the refs aren't giving him every little bullshit call so he can pad his 20pts with 25 pts from free throws.

[StillMcfuu]

Kobe was a legit player, obviously. But the first three championships he was clearly second fiddle to Shaq. If you were around back then, this isn't in question, but people now looking back don't remember how ridiculous Shaq was. Shaq was so good that a generation of All Star 7 footers (Duncan, Garnett, Rasheed, Dirk) suddenly decided that they were power forwards because no one wanted to match up with him. Teams kept drafting and paying every big stiff they could find because Shaq was totally unstoppable. The 76ers traded a lot for Mutombo in a desperate attempt to have someone who could MAYBE slow Shaq down. The early player value analytics systems had an informal rule that said that if Shaq didn't show up as the best player in your system, then your system was wrong.

The later Lakers teams, post Shaq were totally stacked. They had Kobe and Pau. Before joining the Lakers, Pau had been the best player on a 50 win team. He was great. They also had Bynum, who was regarded at the second best center in the league at the time, Lamar Odom, Fisher, and Peace/Ariza coming off the bench (Odom had been the best player on a Miami team that made the second round before he got traded for Shaq along with Butler).

In their biggest series (the two times against Boston), Gasol always outplayed Kobe. Kobe's TS% was .528 in 2010 and .503 in 2008, both terrible numbers, where Gasol was at .572 and .556. In both series, the net rating with Gasol on the court was better than the net rating with Kobe on the court.

When I say Kobe is on that list, I don't mean that he's bad, I mean that he's great but WAAAY overrated. Seriously... for someone who gets mentioned in the best of all time argument, when was he even the best player in the league? Until 2005 it was Shaq (in 2005, Shaq lost to Steve Nash in what was largely viewed as a huge mistake in the MVP vote; he was still right there). In 2006-07 it was likely Duncan. 2008 was perhaps the one year Kobe was best with Lebron a close second, but in 2009 Lebron decisively passed him (there's no contest here: Lebron scored more points at higher efficiency, had more assists, more rebounds, blocks, and steals, and was the best wing defender in the league, leading the Cavs to 66 wins with Mo Williams as the second option - that's CRAZY). Then it was Lebron until Kobe retired.

To me the biggest indictment of Kobe is how bad the Lakers were before Gasol arrived. Everyone seems to remember those teams as having no talent, but they had Odom and Caron Butler in 2005, both around 25 years old, and they won 34 games. Replace 26 year old Kobe with 26 year old Lebron and that team wins 55, maybe even 60 games.

Kobe was great, sure, but for a player who had a one year reign as best player in the league, his all time ranking is routinely overstated.

I got what you are saying, maybe I should slightly clarify, this wing of the hall of fame is for "all time greats who aren't actually great."

Westbrook gets put up on a pedestal as a all time great, but he is a volume scorer (more like misser) who can't D consistently and makes his team worse. His stats are suspect, classic only pass into an assist type player, will delay transition to get a rebound, etc...

Melo, another volume scorer who was pretty streaky, but atleast he is efficient (for a volume guy). Never played defense but luckily played most of his career in an NBA that allowed bad defenders to be hidden. He was a decent team player in his youth, but just got worse. He may or may not be a locker room issue, namely Lin and the Knicks, but if we want to hit that subject let's be real, Lin sucked. Lin always sucked and required the offense to be run though him so he could get points and look better. Melo, if this actually happened, was right to not want him in NYC, because they both cant have the same role on the team.

Harden, just check out last nights game. Dude missed like 30 shots. What kind of coach let's a guy like Harden take that many damn shots. Harden is also really starting to push the barrier of what is considered a zero step, dude fucking gathered before his zero step on the in and out dunk. Yeah he is averaging 40 pts a game, more than half of that from the line. It's a bad look, especially when he is off. That whole play is a beautiful encapsulation of his career, worked hard on his defense, makes a beautifully timed steal, fucking travels, dunk goes in, but the call gets blown. He is literally making a career on blown calls.

Kyrie, nothing else really to say, he's like Westbrook but without the padding, and mix in some Melo for the locker room drama.

If I had to put more people here, idk...
Chris Webber maybe
Stockton
Ohh the obvious Draymond Green, I'm pretty sure at this point he is being exposed as a fraud in a good system surrounded by better players.
Kind of want to throw Nash... maybe... maybe not.

[xskarma]

Knicks fired David Fizzdale. Really nice of them to let him go and enjoy himself on full pay while someone else gets to deal with that bullshit mismatch roster. Good guy Knicks.

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This year's Celtics are everything I hoped last season would be. It's incredible.

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SO. MUCH. FUN.