Yeah idk if he was lobbing to AD or shoot the ball but it was a huge mistake... If he has the passing skill of Lebron, AD could've got the ball and scored.
Yeah idk if he was lobbing to AD or shoot the ball but it was a huge mistake... If he has the passing skill of Lebron, AD could've got the ball and scored.
I mean, butler's best games are Lebron's average.
- - - Updated - - -
Green's brick is getting all the attention but the guy who got the rebound rivals jr smith forgetting the score. Literally threw the ball away when there was time. It was bad enough to start rumors about him being paid off i'm sure.
LAL is crushing Miami like they should have been this whole series.
Rondo played ridiculous off the bench.
He honestly looked like he was playing a different game and the Heat couldn't slow him down when he wanted to score.
So does the bubble close now and everyone gets on a flight home?
So understand that I'm coming from the point that LeBron is clearly.... FUCKING CLEARLY ... the better basketball player than Jordan. LeBron only leads all his teams in every statistical category and we see when he leaves that the teams take a major hit to their win/loss record. Jordan has the better resume, and Jordan really isn't that far behind LeBron in just the pure sense of basketball player...
But what are you on about, especially those matchups...
Pistons Bulls in 1990 was a 7 game series which the Bulls lost, but Jordan dropped something like 47, 43, 35, 32, etc... Slowed down? Was Dumars being congratulated for holding him under 50... in games that barely made 100 pts. In 91 it was a sweep, Bulls wiped the Pistons off the face of the earth for 10+ years. No one "slowed down" Jordan. The reason why these players are on Jordan is because Zone was illegal and "switching" wasn't a thing.
And we have a bit of an idea on how Jordan would have played in the modern era, in 01-03 after zone was made legal, at 38-40 Jordan was still playing and still getting 30 and 40+ point games on a frankly bad Wizards roster. We also have Kobe Bryant... which I love Kobe so saying this feels weird... his game is just Jordan-lite. Jordan was a better player than Kobe in every aspect except for probably work ethic and not gambling. Kobe also had no issues with bigger defenders or the modern defense.
As for anyone who thinks LeBron wouldn't have dominated the 90s, stop listening to those fools. It's all the same talking heads that thought Kawhi was the best player in the NBA and think Harden is in the pantheon of Goats because he can get 50pts for games at a time while the rest of his team do nothing.
LeGoat would have feasted in the 90s, man defenders... hand checking would have given LeBron an advantage, not a disadvantage. One thing guys don't tell you about hand checking is that it fully takes offensive fouls off the table. Once a defender sticks his arm out, he initiates contact, which means all fouls start with the defender. LeBron like he does today would have just bowled over guys trying to slow him down, except he wouldn't lose possessions to charging calls. Hand checking had it's places, and those places are still present in the NBA, IE post you still handcheck (obviously without impeding movement outside of the backdown), but it's seriously misunderstood by people who weren't old enough to even play ball when handchecking was a thing and likely don't understand what it meant. It's another reason why 90s ball seems more aggressive, hand checking allows offensive players to slap hands away and use their arms to move defenders, which you can't do now either.
Regardless... I fully think the modern NBA has made LeBron a better player than he would have been in the 90s. And vicariously that would mean that LeBron wouldn't have the same skill set in the 90s, he would have never really learned how to shoot well, no Euro step moves, etc... But Jordan would still be a God in modern NBA, even if his game didn't change at all, he would still be Jordan, still be the guy out there getting Rings, etc... LeBron is a better player not by much, and Jordan has the better resume not by much. If you want to put it into 2k ratings
Lebron
Player - 100/100
Resume - 99/100
Jordan
Player - 99/100
Resume - 100/100
I also really didn't think he needed this Ring or another Ring. His legacy is firmly entrenched in the 2016 Finals. His legacy is entrenched in Cleveland who went from perennial Finals contenders to a 20 win team, just by losing LeBron. That says all it needs to about his game, him as a player, and where he stands all-time. If anyone has an issue with that statement, you straight up don't know basketball.
I'm also not defending Jordan much here, I don't think he needs defending. Before Jordan came along, we weren't looking for the next Jerry West, Kareem, Chamberlain, etc... It just wasn't done. But since Jordan has been here, we are still looking for the next Jordan. I think LeBron has made it so we will be looking for the next LeBron, which in many ways has already started when you look at Luka.
I just don't see Jordan having an issue in the modern game.
Defender wise, Jordan has faced The Glove, Dumars, Rodman... I mean we are comparing apples to apples here. Jordan would have matched the weight if he needed it, but his defenders weren't, they were in the 200-215 range like Jordan was. We know he got up to 230 ish after baseball and he said that was too heavy because everyone was still 200-215, so he cut weight down. I just don't think there is any reason to believe that Jordan wouldn't adjust, if he even needed to. Kawhi has a very solid consistent game that is Jordanesque and he is no where near the talent level of Jordan.
We are also taking the best of type of magazine racing here, we are talking about Jordan who is a SG, he would be up against other Guards, not forwards. If a forward switched on to him, it would probably be considered a mismatch because of Jordan's speed vs theirs. Even modern NBA we are downsizing again, guards are still smaller. We are basically talking about a situation where he is as fast, but longer than guards and faster and more skilled than forwards but not as strong. We still have players like that, KD for example is essentially a 7 foot SG. And he causes all kinds of problems. He is faster and more skilled that those who are closer to his height, and he is about as fast but longer than those closer to his position.
Jordan would still be a goat in the modern NBA.
I'm not a huge fan of basketball, but for some reason, LeBron just seems like a better, more likeable dude. Which matters to me to a certain extent.
Everyone gushed over The Last Dance but I found it to be a pretty repulsive look into a pretty repulsive dude. LeBron has obviously been able to compete without being as toxic a fucking person as Jordan was. LeBron's biggest scandal is him kowtowing to Chinese corporate sponsors of the NBA.
The thing with Jordan, is he raised his game to ensure he was the best at the time, but also set the bar for people who came after him.
Without that influence, Lebron (among others) wouldn't be the player he is now, so putting him in Jordan's era he wouldn't be the same, and if you want to transpose him like for like into the 90s, he'd be another player Jordan would raise his game to beat.
The biggest issue for comparing them in my mind, is they're vastly different players. Lebron accentuated his team, Jordan would put the team on his back. If you want someone to get the best of the people around him, I'd take James. If I want a guy to win me the game, even down to the final shot, I'd take Jordan every time.
Ex-Mod. Technically retired, they just won't let me quit.
"Vastly overrated" is a harsh term for something that wins rings. It's beyond the last shot though, it's about a person simply stepping up and being "the guy" who becomes unplayable against.
Again, they're different people, Lebron could make a bad team good, or a good team great. Jordan couldn't pick up the team around him, but Jordan would give a great team a higher ceiling than Lebron would, simply because of individual prowess.
Personally I think the ultimate answer of "Lebron or Jordan" is "Why not both?" The thought of that duo on a team is mind boggling.
Ex-Mod. Technically retired, they just won't let me quit.
I forgot who it was, and this was back in something like 2011, but a talking head presenter accused LeBron, ACCUSED, as if this were a negative, that he makes the right play too much in the clutch... instead of shooting it.
Same kind of accusations came up in 2016 when he deferred to Kyrie to take a shot, as if Kyrie wasn't a great shooter, a great clutch player, ohh and had Curry covering him who on his best day is an ok defender. They had just spoke about LeBron like he didn't average a triple double for the series and had the greatest defensive play of all time about 15 seconds prior.
Last edited by StillMcfuu; 2020-10-20 at 03:02 AM.
Very true, not only that but Lakers picked up Green specifically for that situation. Play defense the whole game and make clutch shots. That's been Green's MO for his career.
- - - Updated - - -
A lot of people do remember Jordan better than he was (if that's even possible). I do think Jordan makes his team better, he may be an asshole but guys elevate their games around him because they know he is going to get on their ass about it, he won't let them skate by. I wish I could watch more of him because I'm curious if he could have been the same type of passer LeBron is. But that's kind of where they separate, Jordan was a better defender, LeBron is definitely the better passer.
My issue is Jordan played in the Triangle for most of his career and he did a lot of off-ball work in the triangle, he was often on the receiving end of assists because of it. His assists went up with the Wizard but that was a bad team, also in the zone defense era where Jordan could pull 3 defenders and get wide open looks for team mates. I just don't think Jordan could ever match the sage like passing and IQ of LeBron.
@xskarma
New season starts in 2 months!