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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    Yeah, well, no. Actually Blizzard enriched the class identity of druids through spec identity, but sure, stay in your weird nostalgia bubble. You do you, you have classic for that.
    As every other class. Every class has now spec identity. That's a issue, but ain't just druids and for sure druids don't have any sort of class identity issue. A druid is recognizable by miles away. When you create a druid you don't feel you're playing other class. At all. Druids are very versatile and very complex and that's about it.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    Watch out, don't choke on your epeen.



    Yeah, well, no. Actually Blizzard enriched the class identity of druids through spec identity, but sure, stay in your weird nostalgia bubble. You do you, you have classic for that.
    I agree with him though, druid was most fun to play IMO when feral and guardian wasnt divided up.

    Like a lot of others say it feels like we now play specs instead of classes.

  3. #63
    I hear a lot about the druid class being pushed further towards what the druid was back in WC3, and maybe that is right, however that is not the druid class from WoW. Same as the Farseer and Shaman unit in WC3, they are not the Shaman in WoW. The Shaman is inspired from the unit/hero in WC3, just like the Druid is inspired from the heroes and units of WC3 - it's not a limitation, it's a guideline.

    You guys remember classic to WotlK? Back when the druids were a true hybrid? Who cares about the numbers, they don't matter for 99% of the players but only for the top end raiders. Back in WotlK I was out-dpsing most of the DPS because I knew how to play my role, and I knew the encounters unlike many other players. Of course I could've played a pure DPS instead of a Feral and been top DPS consistently (if the class/spec allowed it) I didn't care about the hybrid tax, because I could do SO MUCH MORE than DPS. Did the healer fall asleep during a big spike of dmg? Nps tranq the raid, save the day. Did the tank die because he failed a mechanic while the boss was at 5%? Nps I pop bearform and taunt the boss for the remaining of the fight, or until the tank accepts the combat ress. Did the healer, mage, shaman, shadowpriest run OOM? No worries I pop innervate and help them get back to topping the meters. Sure I did like 10% less damage than a pure spec, but I improved the encounter for many other classes.

    Although I wasn't much of a raider, I saved the days in raids and dungeons many times. I was constantly on the look out to support the rest of the group whenever I could to make it easier for the tank and/or the healer. There was always something for me to do and improve on, and I absolutely loved that aspect of the Druid. Sure I wasn't the best DPS spec in the game, but I could pull my own weight while simultaneously help my fellow group or raid members, and make up for the lack of DPS in other ways.

    In PvP I didn't have the stuns and CC of a Rogue, nor the damage and tankiness of a Warrior and nowhere near the healing of a pure healer, but I had a little bit of everything, sprinkled with some decent damage, healing and tanking cooldowns when shit went down. I was able to soak damage in bearform while my healer was CC'd, or have the enemies chase me around the map while I was healing myself, and bleeding them. I had shitty tools for every situation that I was able to utilize.

    Now I get that this supportish kind of hybrid playstyle is not for everyone, and that's fine. But to you I say, I'm sorry but I don't think that the druid is a class for you. Atleast not what the druid was, and what I hope the druid will become again. The hybrid, shapeshifting, supporting and highly skill-capped class was what I felt in love with back in Vanilla. Now Ferals are a shitty version of Rogues, whom even in PvP (where a lot more of the kit is utilized) barely even consider shifting to bearform without the affinity, and even then it's hardly any use. And forget about healing, that's just a wasted GCD in most cases. I miss being the jack of all trades, and I miss maining my hybrid Druid.
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  4. #64
    High Overlord PhXn's Avatar
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    i used to be eiher a feral tank or in most cases a guardian cat...... i loved to tank as a bear and where situations allowed it go feral.(i also said im coming on my druid) But this was before MoP.
    After that i went full time blood DK in MoP, after that i went boomkin for a few patches and feral for a few patches. after going boomkin i was referring the spec to people not the class.
    Get in my Belly!

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by IAMANIKOLAS View Post
    -snip-
    Yeah, I miss that. A LOT. I wanted to play a feral, not cat-spec or bear-spec. I love playing rogue, I love playing warrior. I hate what they have done to this class in MoP+.
    I shivered when I heard them say on pre-MoP Blizzcon that druids feel like 4 spec class. I was like WTF are they talking about?!
    In all honesty druids always felt to me like a 2 spec class: caster and melee, caster being dps/healer and melee being dps/tank.

  6. #66
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    Amazing how most of the discussion here is about playstyle.

    "Neeey, I like to shapeshift around doing nothing."

    You people realize that todays specs for druid more closly mirror druidic lore.

    Guardian druids are Druids of the Claw from Warcraft 3.
    I didn't see them switching between multiple forms during WC3.

    Blizzard enriched on this lore with other druidic circles like the Druids of the Moon and Druids of the Branch.

    I for one like my druid of the claw bear character and the current direction Blizzard was/is going with druids.

    Well, you all could play Classic where druidic circles don't really matter. *shrug*
    I don't give a shit about the WC3 lore. I played a hybrid for a decade and it's no longer possible. From classic through the first expansions, Druids were a hybrid class that needed to adapt on the fly and could through clever use of all of their forms be useful.

    Now you're stuck in whatever form your spec belong to.

    If I wanted to play a pure tank, I'd roll a Warrior. If I wanted to play a pure rogue, I'd roll one of those. If I want to play a hybrid - where do I go?
    Last edited by Duilliath; 2019-11-02 at 11:21 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    I played a hybrid for a decade
    Really? Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    From classic through the first expansions
    You mean until Cataclysm. Well, technically before that, because you could just stay in your respective form since BC.
    It's not always optimal, but possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    If I wanted to play a pure tank, I'd roll a Warrior.
    Well, I like to play a Druid of the Claw and tank. *shrug* The changes Blizzard made enabled me to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    If I want to play a hybrid - where do I go?
    I agree, that there is a niche that Blizzard should fill, but they could do that without taking away the WC3 fantasy of druids.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    Really? Wow.



    You mean until Cataclysm. Well, technically before that, because you could just stay in your respective form since BC.
    It's not always optimal, but possible.
    But the class was STILL a hybrid, despite actually being decent DPS or tank.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    Well, I like to play a Druid of the Claw and tank. *shrug* The changes Blizzard made enabled me to do that.
    And you still could, if the druid got their hybrid nature back - you'd just be able to do more as well


    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenhoof View Post
    I agree, that there is a niche that Blizzard should fill, but they could do that without taking away the WC3 fantasy of druids.
    Where the druid fit PERFECTLY from classic to cata. Regardless the druid class is not JUST a druid of the claw or talon, we're the champion of azeroth, Arch Druid of the Cenarion circle. Our powers are beyond that limitation.

    The hybrid aspect was what a lot of people fell in love with, and it could still be brought back without stepping on the toes of those who want to be a pure.

    No reason that we can't compromise
    Whether you think you can or can't - You're right!


    You can read my in-depth Void Ranger / Dark Ranger class concept from 2019 (With pictures) here.

  9. #69
    Im not sure how Druid will work in a raid setting if we went back to 'true hybrid' like Vanilla days. You see how bad Dru is doing in Classic. The reputation even kills really good Druids chances of getting spots. I feel like Druid going full hybrid would be amazing in open world/PVP but due to balancing its going to get that hybrid tax in PVE. Also, there are way too many buttons for Druid compared to other classes. And these extra buttons dont make things more fun or make the class perform any better.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Im not sure how Druid will work in a raid setting if we went back to 'true hybrid' like Vanilla days. You see how bad Dru is doing in Classic. The reputation even kills really good Druids chances of getting spots. I feel like Druid going full hybrid would be amazing in open world/PVP but due to balancing its going to get that hybrid tax in PVE. Also, there are way too many buttons for Druid compared to other classes. And these extra buttons dont make things more fun or make the class perform any better.
    You'd have to lock characters(i.e. no switching characters per fight, have to do the entire raid with the same setup) and specs in raids for true hybrids to have any real value without making them overpowered. That'd be an organisational nightmare especially for more casual groups.

  11. #71
    kind of meaningless to talk about identity when I have to control my worgen rage but when I do need the "feral rage" to do DPS I turn into hello kitty.

  12. #72
    Immortal Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arawrabearialis View Post
    Druid is probably one of the classes that has lost the most "identity" over the years. You're focusing on the craptastic excuse for a talent tree currently in the game, but the problems go well beyond that. Up until just a few years ago, you literally could use almost ALL your class's abilities regardless of spec. Sure a tank had to shift into caster form to use spells and a healer had to go cat to use feral abilities, but the fact is you COULD do those things. Now they've gone and taken away the hybridity of the class, and essentially created 4 unique specs under the label "Druid". Prior to spec-splitting, a good Druid could do so much more than fill a single role in a group. The feral could shift out of cat form, go bear and tank a loose add. The one spec'd for tanking might shift out of bear and cast tranquility to help patch the raid while his co-tank tanks the boss. The boomkin could also aid with a respectable amount of off-healing when it was required.

    Now when you choose a spec, you lose access to a large portion of your class's abilities and only regain a few through a chosen "Affinity" talent. It's not just about having access to forms, it's what you can do with them. Blizzard tells us Deathknights were the first hero class, but many a raid has been saved over the years by well-played Druids who knew how to switch between forms and use ALL of their class abilities. That was the Druid class identity.
    Can't just whip out a 2Her as a prot warrior and do decent dps...can't just suddenly use a bunch of shadow spells as a holy priest, making things a bit more fair isn't a bad thing for the game...
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  13. #73
    One thing that kind of sucks about druids is not being able to use all your spells or other form abilities in whatever form you're in. The more they loosen those restrictions, the more fun I think druids could be.

  14. #74
    Scarab Lord Auxis's Avatar
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    The only drastic change that has occurred in terms of spell changes/pruning is the Balance revamp. Druids used to be about lobbing bolts of nature energy, calling swarms of insects and summon storms to wreak havoc on their foes, while also having that connection to the sky through Moonfire and Starfire.
    And it fit the Night Elves and Tauren.

    Then for some reason, I guess with Tauren stepping forward and saying "HEY! We have a sun god as well as the moon one!", they decided to bake the entire spec to theme as a celestial based druid (kind of like how real life druids were interested in the movement of the stars, the cosmos, etc.) so that it could fit all the new druid races.

    Still kind of salty over this change. Would be nice to have a "switch" - like Warlocks have with their Fel Fire - to go "back to nature's teachings".

    Also they turned Starsurge into an absolute abomination. They made it look weaker than Lunar Strike, somehow. While it used to be us lobbing a blue star.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Still kind of salty over this change. Would be nice to have a "switch" - like Warlocks have with their Fel Fire - to go "back to nature's teachings".
    I mean, what you're talking about right here is essentially race-based spell animations, which have been tossed around for a long time as a sweet way to give various classes more custom feel.

    They already kind of do this with the varied base animal forms based on race, I'm actually kinda surprised they didn't go on and finish the job with balance spells.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    One thing that kind of sucks about druids is not being able to use all your spells or other form abilities in whatever form you're in. The more they loosen those restrictions, the more fun I think druids could be.
    I love getting whispers from people telling me they're reporting me for hacking because I killed them as a kitty while somehow in caster form and dual wielding daggers. Hint, fire-watcher's oath while mogged into the artifact. =)
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  17. #77
    I say they should just remove specs, change up talents, give you a set of abilities and let the player decide on how to use them for their desired role. Then they could just balance the class instead of 2-4 specs per class, and you could change your playstyle on the go.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    One thing that kind of sucks about druids is not being able to use all your spells or other form abilities in whatever form you're in. The more they loosen those restrictions, the more fun I think druids could be.
    Saberon druid. Never forget...

  19. #79
    Mechagnome Sharby's Avatar
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    Only bring back treeform if theres a Stars equiv for it.



    The only Druid spec that I truly feel is a mess is R-Druid, the way it plays in BFA is so garbage and the worst iteration of it.


    I've played R-Druid for every expac since vanilla, first time I stopped because it was so boring.
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