Thread: Nerfed

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Nerfed

    Pack Spirit’s healing reduced to 25% when engaged in combat with enemy players (was 50%).
    Getting x3 of this trait was a lot of fun, it gave us Shaman a chance to turtle up in PvP. It did come at a price though, in Ghost Wolf form you couldn’t do anything but auto-attack, it’s also unique to us Shaman which is a bonus. Yes it probably was too powerful, but it didn’t need nerfing down to 25%. Why? Because Shaman survival is really poor without it, it was a great band aid fix over the monstrous problems the class faces in PvP.

    Restoration Shaman in PvP is already struggling, Pack Spirit gave them a sort of niche that they needed to compete. Now it’s been gutted by 75% it’ll just further distance themselves from the healer pack, they’re already sub tier.

    For Elemental, the spec I’m currently playing it was a great tool to use. Kite, throw interrupts, stuns and time your attacks then jump in to Ghost Wolf and get the 20% damage migration for big damage. Too me it was a high skill ceiling, if you were efficient you didn’t even need to Healing Surge anymore and that tells you the extent of Shaman problems.

    Enchancement, the spec I’ve played 100% till BFA. Why even bother in PvP, you’re a walking free honor kill due to your lack of survival and look what’s just happened? Another direct nerf to Enchancement in PvP. Those that sort comfort from the over the top Healing Surge and MP5 changes last year will find Pack Spirit play-style is now a shadow of its former self. It’s a sad time to play Enchancement and with a heavy heart I suggest you either go Fury or Elemental, you’ll feel better.

    I conclude my thoughts with, why Blizzard? I can see Pack Spirit needed to be nerfed but it’s power of survival should of been siphoned down through the class rather then straight deleting where we were. You could of buffed our survival tree talents, healing surge or heck given us some attention at the alarming problems we have. But you didn’t, you first nerfed it by 50% and then gave it another 50% nerf, that means in PvP if you have 3x Pack Spirit you’ve now only really got 0.75. You don’t even get to have the full power of one Pack Spirit in PvP, how stupid does that look just from a design point of view.

    We didn’t want to be a one trick pony but we’re fans of the Shaman class, we try to make the most of what we’ve got! We found a way to compete and got punished for it again! I’m a very sad PvP player today, very sad. Those are my thoughts on the whole Pack Spirit nerf.

    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...survival/58937

    If anyone wants to post this on the US forums, go ahead, it gets more traction over there.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2019-06-29 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Grammar

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Getting x3 of this trait was a lot of fun, it gave us Shaman a chance to turtle up in PvP. It did come at a price though, in Ghost Wolf form you couldn’t do anything but auto-attack, it’s also unique to us Shaman which is a bonus. Yes it probably was too powerful, but it didn’t need nerfing down to 25%. Why? Because Shaman survival is really poor without it, it was a great band aid fix over the monstrous problems the class faces in PvP.

    Restoration Shaman in PvP is already struggling, Pack Spirit gave them a sort of niche that they needed to compete. Now it’s been gutted by 75% it’ll just further distance themselves from the healer pack, they’re already sub tier.

    For Elemental, the spec I’m currently playing it was a great tool to use. Kite, throw interrupts, stuns and time your attacks then jump in to Ghost Wolf and get the 20% damage migration for big damage. Too me it was a high skill ceiling, if you were efficient you didn’t even need to Healing Surge anymore and that tells you the extent of Shaman problems.

    Enchancement, the spec I’ve played 100% till BFA. Why even bother in PvP, you’re a walking free honor kill due to your lack of survival and look what’s just happened? Another direct nerf to Enchancement in PvP. Those that sort comfort from the over the top Healing Surge and MP5 changes last year will find Pack Spirit play-style is now a shadow of its former self. It’s a sad time to play Enchancement and with a heavy heart I suggest you either go Fury or Elemental, you’ll feel better.

    I conclude my thoughts with, why Blizzard? I can see Pack Spirit needed to be nerfed but it’s power of survival should of been siphoned down through the class rather then straight deleting where we were. You could of buffed our survival tree talents, healing surge or heck given us some attention at the alarming problems we have. But you didn’t, you first nerfed it by 50% and then gave it another 50% nerf, that means in PvP if you have 3x Pack Spirit you’ve now only really got 0.75. You don’t even get to have the full power of one Pack Spirit in PvP, how stupid does that look just from a design point of view.

    We didn’t want to be a one trick pony but we’re fans of the Shaman class, we try to make the most of what we’ve got! We found a way to compete and got punished for it again! I’m a very sad PvP player today, very sad. Those are my thoughts on the whole Pack Spirit nerf.

    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...survival/58937

    If anyone wants to post this on the US forums, go ahead, it gets more traction over there.

    Should be obvious, going entirely passive doing nothing so you can be tanky is poor gameplay, especially when its always available. Because when you get outplayed you can default to this totally passive mode to slow down the game. That means that a horrible player can undo significant work of a good player by just sitting in Ghostwolf. It was almost like iceblocking except iceblock has a significant CD. Same issue as used to exist with 100% spammable feint, Edge of Insanity Shadowpriest etc. Happy blizz destroyed it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    Should be obvious, going entirely passive doing nothing so you can be tanky is poor gameplay, especially when its always available. Because when you get outplayed you can default to this totally passive mode to slow down the game. That means that a horrible player can undo significant work of a good player by just sitting in Ghostwolf. It was almost like iceblocking except iceblock has a significant CD. Same issue as used to exist with 100% spammable feint, Edge of Insanity Shadowpriest etc. Happy blizz destroyed it.
    I think the problem is there is no other play. It’s ghostwolf or die.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    Should be obvious, going entirely passive doing nothing so you can be tanky is poor gameplay, especially when its always available. Because when you get outplayed you can default to this totally passive mode to slow down the game. That means that a horrible player can undo significant work of a good player by just sitting in Ghostwolf. It was almost like iceblocking except iceblock has a significant CD. Same issue as used to exist with 100% spammable feint, Edge of Insanity Shadowpriest etc. Happy blizz destroyed it.
    It has it's up's and downs, I even stated that in my post above. It was powerful, but it was a mask that solved a problem for the Shaman, that being their toughness. It was no where near a iceblock, a few well time Maledict's and the Shaman would fall. Spam Purge and they're just a walking target dummy having their GCD locked to get back in to Ghost Wolf. Its easy to counter but most players don't understand whats going on so they deem it some invulnerable Ice Block.

    Lets just recap though, we're also talking about Shaman here, one of the weakest classes in the game, not even in top the tier, that's just had it's already miserable toughness nerfed to ground.

    I would of been happy if they nerfed Pack Spirit, but buffed say, Healing Surge or given us some meaningful defensive options. But they didn't, they stealth nerfed Pack Spirit with 8.2, then days later posted a oopsie adding the nerf to the hotfix announcement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I think the problem is there is no other play. It’s ghostwolf or die.
    This in a nutshell.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2019-06-29 at 07:16 PM.

  5. #5
    This talent was extremely broken in PvP and long overdue for a nerf.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Antilurker77 View Post
    This talent was extremely broken in PvP and long overdue for a nerf.
    Long overdue? It was already nerfed by 50%, then took another 50% nerf on top of it.

    Why do I feel you didn't read the OP because of your one sentence reply?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Long overdue? It was already nerfed by 50%, then took another 50% nerf on top of it.

    Why do I feel you didn't read the OP because of your one sentence reply?
    It used to be 20% in PvP until they made all azerite traits in PvP 50% across the board, and it was still considered a top-tier trait for PvP.

    I don't think you know what you're talking about.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Antilurker77 View Post
    It used to be 20% in PvP until they made all azerite traits in PvP 50% across the board, and it was still considered a top-tier trait for PvP.

    I don't think you know what you're talking about.
    Pack Spirit was nerfed to 50% like all Azerite defensives -> Then it got nerfed to 20% -> Then they re-balanced everything to 50% so it got buffed back up -> Now they've taken it down to 25%.

    3x Azerite traits, 50% nerf in pvp = 1.5 Azerite traits.

    Now at it's 50%, they've cut it to 25%. A 50% nerf on what it was currently. So that equals 0.75 worth of Azerite traits, or 1/4 if you want to be simple.

    I do know what I'm talking about, but again you're really not taking in to account what I've said in my original post. I've already described it as being very powerful, but I just wish they hadn't completely gutted our -overall- survival in PvP with this flat nerf.

    You have to take in to consideration they don't balance for 1vs1, when someone is in Ghost Wolf they are doing nothing for anyone else. All they are doing is healing themselves, kiting and if they want to, auto-attacking. All it takes is a simple purge or a few maledict's and the x3 trait obsolete. In Ghost Wolf form you can't heal anyone else, you can't do any significant damage whatsoever! There are other classes out there with insane self-healing, absolutely bonkers! Guess what? They're also contributing damage, providing CC, or healing. They aren't stuck in a turtle form doing nothing.

    This is why we're not top tier, but I don't care about that. I was quite happy with 8.1.5 balance, it wasn't perfect but I made the most of it. Instead of trying to address the powerful classes in abundance in the PvP scene, they again look at the Shaman and hit us below the belt.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2019-06-29 at 09:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Pack Spirit was nerfed to 50% like all Azerite defensives -> Then it got nerfed to 20% -> Then they re-balanced everything to 50% so it got buffed back up -> Now they've taken it down to 25%.

    3x Azerite traits, 50% nerf in pvp = 1.5 Azerite traits.

    Now at it's 50%, they've cut it to 25%. A 50% nerf on what it was currently. So that equals 0.75 worth of Azerite traits, or 1/4 if you want to be simple.

    I do know what I'm talking about, but again you're really not taking in to account what I've said in my original post. I've already described it as being very powerful, but I just wish they hadn't completely gutted our -overall- survival in PvP with this flat nerf.

    You have to take in to consideration they don't balance for 1vs1, when someone is in Ghost Wolf they are doing nothing for anyone else. All they are doing is healing themselves, kiting and if they want to, auto-attacking. All it takes is a simple purge or a few maledict's and the x3 trait obsolete. In Ghost Wolf form you can't heal anyone else, you can't do any significant damage whatsoever! There are other classes out there with insane self-healing, absolutely bonkers! Guess what? They're also contributing damage, providing CC, or healing. They aren't stuck in a turtle form doing nothing.

    This is why we're not top tier, but I don't care about that. I was quite happy with 8.1.5 balance, it wasn't perfect but I made the most of it. Instead of trying to address the powerful classes in abundance in the PvP scene, they again look at the Shaman and hit us below the belt.
    Completely gutted? lol

    Even at 25% it's still overpowered. They could nerf it down to 15% and it would still be taken. And lol about it being "countered" by purges. You know Ghost Wolf has no CD, right? No other class has this amount of nearly uncounterable, on-demand self-healing. If you don't understand how strong what's essentially a 0 CD Dispersion is in PvP then there's no hope for you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Antilurker77 View Post
    Completely gutted? lol

    Even at 25% it's still overpowered. They could nerf it down to 15% and it would still be taken. And lol about it being "countered" by purges. You know Ghost Wolf has no CD, right? No other class has this amount of nearly uncounterable, on-demand self-healing. If you don't understand how strong what's essentially a 0 CD Dispersion is in PvP then there's no hope for you.
    I’d say 25% is pretty gutted, but I said overall survival, Pack Spirit plays a overwhelmingly important part in it. Gutted, that’s the right word for it.

    Yes, I know Ghost Wolf has no CD, but that’s the same for many purges. It’s also unique, like I said in my OP and comes with major drawbacks. Again though, you’re arguing like I don’t know how powerful it is, you really need to read my OP or read it better! I’ve even stated it should be nerfed, I could be an asshole and say the same thing for you, well there’s no hope for you because you need to actually read the persons argument to debate properly.

    But look, take a look at what I said and then perhaps challenge your reply to be more constructive, as your points are way off the mark.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2019-06-29 at 10:05 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I think the problem is there is no other play. It’s ghostwolf or die.
    Let's not exaggerate, resto shamans still have a passive heal when they drop low, a wall, earthen wall totem, an instant aoe heal on popping their cds, spiritlink and ghostwolf kiting is still gonna be pretty solid plus you get healing and DR from the talents. Sitting in ghostwolf and passively outhealing a single DPS entirely is toxic for the game. Whenever you have DPS like that that can turn basically immune to death at will even though they can't do anything themselves either it severely limits targets and slows the game down. Then they usually play with some other really tanky stuff and we have to watch games go to 60% dampening+ in tournament. No thanks. We need people dying a lot quicker in general.

    I'll grant you that enhance isn't a good spec at the moment, though ele is still a very good one. But the way to fix that is nerfing rogue mage. Which basically has everything in the game right now, best CC which is also easy to set up, amazing survivability, life threatening burst every kidneyshot, delete potential with cooldowns and strong in dampening due to healing debuff.
    Last edited by Warning; 2019-06-30 at 02:32 PM.

  12. #12
    Banned FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Getting x3 of this trait was a lot of fun, it gave us Shaman a chance to turtle up in PvP. It did come at a price though, in Ghost Wolf form you couldn’t do anything but auto-attack, it’s also unique to us Shaman which is a bonus. Yes it probably was too powerful, but it didn’t need nerfing down to 25%. Why? Because Shaman survival is really poor without it, it was a great band aid fix over the monstrous problems the class faces in PvP.
    "It was fun"
    for you yes, for literally anyone and everyone else no
    "we couldnt do anything but auto attack"
    that was not the issue.
    the issue was "hey guys we got the shaman healer out on his own, us 3 can kill him lets do it!"
    *Shaman turns ghostwolf and runs*
    *All 3 dps pump everything we can into him, but the tankiness of his ghost wolf form plus the speed boost allow him to get away*

    need i say more?
    there is SOOOO many times in BG's and in arenas and in world pvp where it was "yes the shaman lets kill him!"
    for them to just... ghost wolf run, any and all of us unable to keep up, and yes we coudl stun and slow, but those would quickly run out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I think the problem is there is no other play. It’s ghostwolf or die.
    and how is that good playstyle?
    if you get caught out and die thats your fault
    you should not be able to just press a button, then 99/100 times just... run away.

  13. #13
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    This is why Blizz needs to go back to the template mode of Legion.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    the issue was "hey guys we got the shaman healer out on his own, us 3 can kill him lets do it!"
    *Shaman turns ghostwolf and runs*
    *All 3 dps pump everything we can into him, but the tankiness of his ghost wolf form plus the speed boost allow him to get away*
    If three people are unable to kill a Shaman in GW, the enemy team peels you hard or you're just bad.
    In Arena, it takes exactly a Mage with Kleptomania and a Rogue to kill a Shaman in GW with a bit of setup.

    Like seriously, my GW didn't even outheal the damage from a single Assa rogue, despite the fact that i run 2x Pack Spirit+Engineering def trait.

    It's strong, but a single Mage / Shaman / Priest already ruins this thing by simply spamming dispel.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-06-30 at 02:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Instead of somehow fix the azerite trait, they nerfed it ( again ) in a way that the only way to use it efficiently is to have 3x.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "It was fun"
    for you yes, for literally anyone and everyone else no
    Fun is subjective, I don't enjoy facing Fury warrior as Enhancement, as it's just cake for the Fury Warrior. I don't find that fun, perhaps Fury should be nerfed because of fun? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "we couldnt do anything but auto attack"
    that was not the issue.
    It's a major drawback, you're in turtle form. You can't do anything other then kite, yes the Shaman is extremely tough but you can't do anything offensive. We have similar spell as Enhancement, Ethereal Form which actually makes you immune to all physical damage. It fits the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    the issue was "hey guys we got the shaman healer out on his own, us 3 can kill him lets do it!"
    *Shaman turns ghostwolf and runs*
    *All 3 dps pump everything we can into him, but the tankiness of his ghost wolf form plus the speed boost allow him to get away*
    If 3 DPS can't kill a Shaman then you're just bad, especially if one of the DPS has purge they can spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    need i say more?
    there is SOOOO many times in BG's and in arenas and in world pvp where it was "yes the shaman lets kill him!"
    for them to just... ghost wolf run, any and all of us unable to keep up, and yes we coudl stun and slow, but those would quickly run out.
    Again, you're not really giving much info on these encounters, it sounds rather like a personal tirade. Remember 1 vs 1 isn't balanced, there's many specific counters to every class in the game. Those that have purge can easily kill any Shaman with Pack Spirit, it's cake. In Arena the Pack Spirit healing with the dampening debuff is abysmal, I mean well we're at it, lets nerf Paladin Bubble+Hearthstone, because only a couple of abilities in the game can counter it. They can always get away. That was me being sarcastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    and how is that good playstyle?
    if you get caught out and die thats your fault
    you should not be able to just press a button, then 99/100 times just... run away.
    It's juggling your Ghost Wolf form and applying pressure + CC, it's not just running away unless you're getting ganked.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    and how is that good playstyle?
    if you get caught out and die thats your fault
    you should not be able to just press a button, then 99/100 times just... run away.
    I didn’t say it was good playstyle I said it’s a problem

  18. #18
    All things considered we're in a great place.

    Ele is a top DPS, Enhance is a middle of the pack DPS, and you basically need 1 resto in every 20 man.

    Shaman's are taking over!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    All things considered we're in a great place.

    Ele is a top DPS, Enhance is a middle of the pack DPS, and you basically need 1 resto in every 20 man.

    Shaman's are taking over!
    Yeah, but this is talking mainly about PvP.

  20. #20
    Perhaps the people supporting the nerf saying shaman were " unkillable " in arena shouldn 't be doing arena ... sure they were meaty in arena and even BG 's but good -- or good enough -- players were always able to counter them.

    Also , if 3 people training down 1 shaman can 't line up stuns + interrupts and are unable to kill 1 shaman then those other 3 players need to get better.

    I hate to be blunt , but it 's that simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Again, you're not really giving much info on these encounters, [B]it sounds rather like a personal tirade
    That 's all it ever is

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