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  1. #1

    Post 9.0 Mage redesign suggestions

    Ion has said they want to relax the class design adding more spells and also make more spells class wide.

    What changes would you guys like to see?

    Me?

    Arcane Explotion baseline - Great for finding rogues and aoe tagging
    Pyroblast being a big damage spell - I understand people enjoy current fire but Pyroblast should be this huge damage spell and it is just not. Maybe make a new spell fit where current Pyroblast is, and make Pyroblast something like Ebonblade, big damage on a cooldown.
    Fire Shield and Arcane Shield are strange to me I wish they were more creative to make these specs have survivability than just giving a recolor of Ice Barrier.
    More of the highly situational active spells in the PvP talents should be regular spells.

    Other than that I think Mage is one of the least problematic classes out there right now.

  2. #2
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Pyroblast being a big damage spell - I understand people enjoy current fire but Pyroblast should be this huge damage spell and it is just not. Maybe make a new spell fit where current Pyroblast is, and make Pyroblast something like Ebonblade, big damage on a cooldown.
    Pyroblast is already a big damage spell, just pick pyroclasm, but people tend to opt out of this option, because it's clunky is fuck. I like having a long-ass cast with another ability to amplify its damage further for standing inside a giant circle. I wish these two things will be baseline.
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  3. #3
    It’s nice that shaman and druids get their own signature aesthetics in totems and forms. The rest of the race/class combos in the game are left with the same exact spells and abilities no matter their culture. Each race casts the same looking spells, even though they each learn or adopt, harness and hone their craft in different ways, on different lands and through unique circumstances influenced by their own culture and history and heritage and beliefs and arts.

    I would love if a nightborne themed spell or two could look more night-themed, dusky with bits of starry dust swirling within the spell, or perhaps some spells can be accompanied by quills or a floating tome and that flits through it's pages. Did you see occuleth casting his spells? His arms and hands flow gracefully yet like a scholarly magician's. An animations, spell and/or ability visual, just 1-2 per race, like shaman and druids already have, so can skip them, is not a lot to ask for.

    A nightborne’s melee animations should have flare akin to fencing maneuvers and their refined spell casting animations could move elegantly, inspired by olden day French dance and etiquette

    I wish our race's identity were visually and aurally reflected in their culture's spells and abilities. Allowing of our beloved and unique race’s identities to be reflected in our classes, not just totems for shaman and shapeshift forms for druids, but every class having 1-2 culturally defined/modified abilities reflective in their casting or animations or sound effects. It would be amazing and immersive and the game really should feature at least some race and cultural identity incorporated into their their signature spells and abilities - at least one or two per race, class and/or spec would be nice.

    It would be neat to have cultural-appropriate stuff. Not every spell or ability needs to be unique to the culture, as many are learned or shared between races, but at least a handful definitely should be unique to the race who wields it.

    Pandaren sorcerer (mage) could have a graphic of a cloud serpent in their spell or ability instead of the same exact visuals used by all other mages, as their culture has nurtured and developed their art differently, personally, and in tune with their island and history and in their traditions of yu'lon and the celestials, and from their beliefs, ideals, understandings and masteries of their own version of the art - wield their magic befitting to how they've honed their skills, separate from other races and cultures. Possibly jade colored sorcery. (While I'm getting excited with ideas, a Pandaren's version of a mage spell could infuse or replace the common visual with a cloud serpent image that circles around the sorcerer then shoots toward the target, in a bolt of heavenly jade dragonry!)

    I don't care about much about this class/spec overhaul unless it includes at least 1-2 visually and aurally culturally specific or race-accurate representation spells or abilities. Sunwalkers Tauren could have a more warm and sunlit-looking vibe to a spell or ability, set to drums or chanting sound effects, instead of other paladin's and priest's light and void themes. Sunwalker tauren can have drums or chanting to accompany their spells, along with warm, sparking sunlight, instead of light/void themed spells that most other paladins use. A Sunwalker Tauren would have a more sun-worshiping vibe and sunlight theme as opposed to other paladins and priests, using the calm and healing warm (or strength) of An'she. Their nature and tribal ways should and could be reflected in their visuals and sounds. Chants or drums beating to certain spells and abilities, and the healing calm of warm, sparkling sunlight. Should be more tribal and from within their own culture instead of light/void themed paladins and priests.

    Heritage armor is one of the only ways to represent our heritage while casting spells or using abilities. I think heritage armor is a terrific and wonderful way to show not only the pride and history of our beloved races, but the traditional outfits also add that special uniqueness that injects culture when casting spells and using abilities - so I think those are simply an awesome way to get culture into the spells and abilities of the race who wields them.

    Please consider incorporating our race's identity and their culture's signature aesthetics into their classes and into their specializations when working on class and spec design, starting now and continually ongoing in the future, thanks! But, there's so much more to look forward to!

    Thanks,
    Samuel

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Natrii's Avatar
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    I want fire to get frost's mastery and pyro be turned into glacial spike mechanic with how icicles work, but I want at the 5 stack for the pyro(that has the damage for 5 spells that crit adjusted by mastery) to be instant. The "Icicles "(give it some fire name) will generate on crit of fireball and pyro crit. This seem like a chance to keep crit focus and build to a thematically satisfying pyro.

    Just an idea.

  5. #5
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    If Frost could get the Spear Of Ice spell that Champion Qalina uses in Nazjatar (including ALL the animation effects) I would be so happy
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Natrii View Post
    I want fire to get frost's mastery and pyro be turned into glacial spike mechanic with how icicles work, but I want at the 5 stack for the pyro(that has the damage for 5 spells that crit adjusted by mastery) to be instant. The "Icicles "(give it some fire name) will generate on crit of fireball and pyro crit. This seem like a chance to keep crit focus and build to a thematically satisfying pyro.

    Just an idea.
    Yup. The Icicle mechanic seems so fitting for the Fire spec. Each spell crit you get a "Mote of Fire" or "Spark" and when you have 5 you can cast that OMGZPYROBLASTOMG. And they can move the "Hot Streak" mechanic over to Fireball instead. When you make 2 consecutive crits Fireball becomes instant and deals extra damage. This way they can keep that mechanic too. The more you crit the faster it goes: more Fireball hot streak procs and more Pyroblast casts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    If Frost could get the Spear Of Ice spell that Champion Qalina uses in Nazjatar (including ALL the animation effects) I would be so happy
    I just looked it up ( for those who want to check it out: https://youtu.be/juWWlpMIVPk?t=28 ) and it looks daaamn cool. Would love it too!

    OT: I would love for more gimmicky spells like Alter Time, Greater Invisibility, the spell that reverses your Blink (Arcane) and some new and crazy stuff. TBH I really want to feel "omg this is crazy!" next time I see new Mage spells. I want them to surprise us with really cool and unexpected stuff. I really don't give shit about balance. Balance isn't fun, never has been. It is fair, true. But "fair" constrains "fun" one bit too much.

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Orby's Avatar
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    I just wish they make frostbolt and fireball less of a combo builder and more of a actual damaging ability. I am having fun with mages right now, but I miss the days when fireball and frostbolt did actual damage and wasnt just a low damage proc starter. Most of the time it's just reliable on getting those procs for the main meat of the damage.
    Last edited by Orby; 2019-07-06 at 04:29 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    If Frost could get the Spear Of Ice spell that Champion Qalina uses in Nazjatar (including ALL the animation effects) I would be so happy
    It is the same if not very similar to an ability Jaina does. She has some great frost visuals. Would love to get those as frost mage. Especially her graphic for frost nova and ice block. I feel the graphic for those 2 is so out of date. By frost nova I am referring to the root effect on enemies, not the cast one as I know that was updated in Legion. A think an update the ice barrier spell would be nice too.

    As for arcane I would love if they readdressed the arcane spell effect update and took more inspiration from the arcane visuals of the Nightborne. The new ones are basically pink versions of priest cast animations for smite, etc. Look closely at your hands when casting arcane blast and you will see the little stars.
    Gameplay wise for arcane I'd like a ranged aoe as running in and relying on arcane explosion feels so weird to me. I'm not saying remove it, but allow us to have an aoe we can do from range or perhaps alter it so it can be cast around an enemy target if need be?

    As always I'd love more polymorph tomes. Was sad that Alliance got the bumblebee as would have liked that myself. I'd also love a crab polymorph, a spider, snake, etc. The list of critters we could use goes on and on.
    Can you taste it on the air? The sweet nectar of madness? Mmm... this place is swollen with it.

  9. #9
    Change Arcane Orb visuals.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    They should go back to the MoP design of fire, less guaranteed crits & less hot streaks, but everything hit much harder.

  11. #11
    Frost is a pretty perfect spec. Interesting GS build-up, powerful procs, low CD spells like Comet Storm and Frozen Orb, shattering, ice flows. Glacial Spike needs to be either baseline or remain a competitive choice. It gives meaning to your spells, next cast choices, and rewards proper planning. Been maining Frost since Panda and it's at the funnest its ever been.

    Fire shouldn't be like Frost. I disagree about people saying to give Fire a icicle system. Fire feels really good with the DoT stacking, FireBlast not being on the GCD, and Combustion. However, they don't really have other interesting spells besides that. They need 1-2 more low CD spells to throw in like Frost has, but that still interact with their crit procs in some way. Phoenix Flame was a great idea because it always crit, but it's not baseline so it's not usually chosen over the FireBlast one. Maybe a baseline Flame Orb (again) that slowly absorbs your current Ignite stack from the targets and then explodes for the damage (but enough to where it's usuable on single target as well, like frost orb).

    Arcane is kind of a mess, but has gotten MUCH MUCH better after they changed the mastery to not care about how much mana you currently have. But the rotation needs something extra. Nether Tempest being baseline would be interesting, as long as it's still good for single target.

    Two things I think would be interesting for all mage specs. I believe each spec/class needs to have new spells added. Even if they're not a great success (Symbiosis on Druids, for example. Or Flame Orb for mages) it's amazing to experience new mechanics and try them out, see what sticks and what doesn't. Big mistake not adding a single new spell in BFA.

    The 2nd thing I'd like to see is changing how talents are handled. Instead of choosing a talent that gives you a new ability, I think it'd be more interesting to give you a talent that greatly alters or improves one of your abilities. In this sense, practically all spells would be baseline in some form, but they would be changed greatly depending on what you selected. For example, a talent row dedicated to altering Blink in certain ways. One could be arcane's displacement ability, one could cast frost nova in the path, one could be fire's blazing speed. For all, you have blink, it just changes how it works. Or back in Pandaria the row I LOVED as a mage was the one with Nether Tempest, Living Bomb, and that frost one that I forget. It was all basically the same spell, but it changed how it works so much. 1 more great example is from Pandaria's Holy Priest row. Their Cascade, Divine Star, and Halo were all in the same row and basically changed their healing CD to short CD grouped together, medium CD spread apart, long CD max range. It was interesting to change this row based on the fight and what I felt like we needed.

    So basically, add more spells that interact with the class's main mechanic (which all work fine currently imo), and change talents to ALTER a baseline spell dramatically, instead of either giving you a new spell or a boring passive.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Change Arcane Orb visuals.
    Slow Fall and Ice Block need more love.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    OT: I would love for more gimmicky spells like Alter Time, Greater Invisibility, the spell that reverses your Blink (Arcane) and some new and crazy stuff. TBH I really want to feel "omg this is crazy!" next time I see new Mage spells. I want them to surprise us with really cool and unexpected stuff. I really don't give shit about balance. Balance isn't fun, never has been. It is fair, true. But "fair" constrains "fun" one bit too much.
    A mage should be no simple minded fool with only a few abilities up his sleeve. No, we're spellcasters that have obtained our powers through years of dedicated study, we should be packed to the brim of our pointy hats with spells for all the different situations!

    I dislike that as a fire mage, I have no spammable tool to unstealth rogues. I also dislike not having access to any kind of reliable slow. I dislike that our rotation is so one-dimensional. As someone before me said, yes, give us some more buttons that elaborate on our rotation! The base is alright, but it feels bland. What it lacks is some spice, some point where a good fire mage and a better fire mage go separate ways. Right now, there's barely any distinction.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Arcene's Avatar
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    I want frostflame bolt and Alter Time back.

    Also Mirror image to be base line also I wouldn't mind Arcane Explosion as fire or some flaming equivalent.

    Plus in a completely unrelated to balance but very much in the vein of ascetics I want my Orbs of Felo'melorn back g'dammit.

    A Glyph even to give back my Orbs or just have them show up when I transmog Felo'melorn.

    I miss them. I'm feelin' very that one guy from S-cry-ed here.

    EDIT: CAUTERIZING BLINK. I want it back without having to find an azerite piece with it on it.
    Last edited by Arcene; 2019-07-20 at 04:59 PM.

  15. #15
    Alter time as a DPS cooldown again
    Regenerative Iceblock back
    Less instant pyros for fire, harder hitting pyro
    Get rid of arcane orbs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverlite View Post
    Frost is a pretty perfect spec. Interesting GS build-up, powerful procs, low CD spells like Comet Storm and Frozen Orb, shattering, ice flows. Glacial Spike needs to be either baseline or remain a competitive choice. It gives meaning to your spells, next cast choices, and rewards proper planning. Been maining Frost since Panda and it's at the funnest its ever been.

    Fire shouldn't be like Frost. I disagree about people saying to give Fire a icicle system. Fire feels really good with the DoT stacking, FireBlast not being on the GCD, and Combustion. However, they don't really have other interesting spells besides that. They need 1-2 more low CD spells to throw in like Frost has, but that still interact with their crit procs in some way. Phoenix Flame was a great idea because it always crit, but it's not baseline so it's not usually chosen over the FireBlast one. Maybe a baseline Flame Orb (again) that slowly absorbs your current Ignite stack from the targets and then explodes for the damage (but enough to where it's usuable on single target as well, like frost orb).

    Arcane is kind of a mess, but has gotten MUCH MUCH better after they changed the mastery to not care about how much mana you currently have. But the rotation needs something extra. Nether Tempest being baseline would be interesting, as long as it's still good for single target.

    Two things I think would be interesting for all mage specs. I believe each spec/class needs to have new spells added. Even if they're not a great success (Symbiosis on Druids, for example. Or Flame Orb for mages) it's amazing to experience new mechanics and try them out, see what sticks and what doesn't. Big mistake not adding a single new spell in BFA.

    The 2nd thing I'd like to see is changing how talents are handled. Instead of choosing a talent that gives you a new ability, I think it'd be more interesting to give you a talent that greatly alters or improves one of your abilities. In this sense, practically all spells would be baseline in some form, but they would be changed greatly depending on what you selected. For example, a talent row dedicated to altering Blink in certain ways. One could be arcane's displacement ability, one could cast frost nova in the path, one could be fire's blazing speed. For all, you have blink, it just changes how it works. Or back in Pandaria the row I LOVED as a mage was the one with Nether Tempest, Living Bomb, and that frost one that I forget. It was all basically the same spell, but it changed how it works so much. 1 more great example is from Pandaria's Holy Priest row. Their Cascade, Divine Star, and Halo were all in the same row and basically changed their healing CD to short CD grouped together, medium CD spread apart, long CD max range. It was interesting to change this row based on the fight and what I felt like we needed.

    So basically, add more spells that interact with the class's main mechanic (which all work fine currently imo), and change talents to ALTER a baseline spell dramatically, instead of either giving you a new spell or a boring passive.
    Frost was objectively more fun in Legion though

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    A mage should be no simple minded fool with only a few abilities up his sleeve. No, we're spellcasters that have obtained our powers through years of dedicated study, we should be packed to the brim of our pointy hats with spells for all the different situations!

    I dislike that as a fire mage, I have no spammable tool to unstealth rogues. I also dislike not having access to any kind of reliable slow. I dislike that our rotation is so one-dimensional. As someone before me said, yes, give us some more buttons that elaborate on our rotation! The base is alright, but it feels bland. What it lacks is some spice, some point where a good fire mage and a better fire mage go separate ways. Right now, there's barely any distinction.
    Not every spec needs a spammable aoe, lots of classes get rogues out of stealth easily already

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Not every spec needs a spammable aoe, lots of classes get rogues out of stealth easily already
    Of course not, but mages were one of the classes that had one, and I'd argue this was a good thing, as they are also a class that is preyed upon by rogues more easily than others.

    And as a rogue main, I wouldn't even mind! It's stupid easy to get the jump on people anyways since they removed stealth's movement speed reduction. If a vigilant mage offers a slightly bigger challenge, all the better.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Frost was objectively more fun in Legion
    Care to elaborate on how a subjective term like “fun” can be objective?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Care to elaborate on how a subjective term like “fun” can be objective?
    Because BFA frost is literally watered down Legion frost, it's the same spec - with less choice, functionality and interactivity. When you have the same spec, that's just lesser - you can say it's objectively less fun.

  19. #19
    For fire, I think phoenix flame should be baseline again and a slow may be like cone of cold should be returned as well. Cauterizing blink should also be returned. There need to be more cross spec abilities made available to all classes again.

    I'm hoping that they'll simply expand to more talent tiers next expansion after adding a lot of pvp talents and azerite traits to the baseline talent tree.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Because BFA frost is literally watered down Legion frost, it's the same spec - with less choice, functionality and interactivity. When you have the same spec, that's just lesser - you can say it's objectively less fun.
    Still the defenition of fun is not the same for each person, which makes fun subjective.

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