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  1. #61
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Yeah, I mean buffing Ice Lance is the right call if you want to make Frost ST use Ice Lance again without nerfing Flash Freeze to the ground. But all this makes is that the Orb Build will be even stronger as you said. I guess that's build varity?
    The issue with it is that there's no reasonable buff that makes it usable on GS sets without fixing FF. Blizz would have to look at potential full Mastery sets and balance Lance around being a DPS gain over not using it at that point, which would require something in the +120-180% range. Which yeah, makes Orb insane. There's no winning without fixing FF.

  2. #62
    With the fear of being crucified by people who enjoy current ranged Arcane, I'd like Blizz to make Arcane a melee battlemage spec tank or DPS doesn't matter, as long as I can sling arcane spells in melee combat.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2019-10-09 at 07:41 PM.
    DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN CAST ASIDE YOUR GUILT SO EASILY

  3. #63
    I just want them to bring back the old talent trees.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    It's still not worth on GS sets. Took noIL from ~6% over default to about 3% in average gear this tier. They need to fix Flash Freeze before anything looks remotely normal again, and then that'll necessitate a global buff by about 10%.

    What it DID do is bring back Frozen Orb as the dominant build. At least 8.2.5 fixed the impact range, but you're still playing Rune, which most hate.
    So the orb build is the RoP into TV and Freezing Rain? Or is it Ray of frost and SI? I have been playing SI and TV without RoP for BoD days back then but then i stopped playing. xD

  5. #65
    They really need to buff the crit stats of fire mages to make it fun like in Legion

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    The issue with it is that there's no reasonable buff that makes it usable on GS sets without fixing FF. Blizz would have to look at potential full Mastery sets and balance Lance around being a DPS gain over not using it at that point, which would require something in the +120-180% range. Which yeah, makes Orb insane. There's no winning without fixing FF.
    I'd be SHOCKED if they touch any azerite traits while 8.x is live because I'd be STUPEFIED if they keep Azerite Armor around for 9.0.

    Do you think Blizzard paid any attention to 33.34% crit for frost, it's looking like we will never hit that for BFA expansion. My concern being their internal testing is assuming we can achieve the soft crit cap and therefore DPS is being throttled to account for said cap. Also historically frost has been built around achieving that soft cap.

    One big culprit to preventing soft crit cap is the lack of secondaries on Azerite armor. Other being the stat crunch with 8.0 launch.

  7. #67
    Hmm. This actually goes against your idea of specs being more similar to each other, but yesterday I had a cool idea for fire mage I have posted on EU forums before.

    Basically all your fire spells START OR ADD TO but DO NOT REFRESH a DOT on the enemy. This dot is pure damage per second instead of fixed damage over time. If the dot has high duration left, then it's better to cast fireball than scorch, because it adds more to the dot per second casting, but when the dot has only a low duration left it's better to cast scorch because it does more dps and adds less to the dot but it doesn't matter when it has <4 seconds left or something. Pyroblast with hot streak will always trump everything. For an aoe version, make flamestrike start this dot too.

    I had an idea for a fire mage aoe talent called Kindling (pretty sure a talent called this exists but change it) where fireballs on targets over 70% health gives them a ddebuff where your aoe spells splash damage onto other targets.

  8. #68
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    I'd be SHOCKED if they touch any azerite traits while 8.x is live because I'd be STUPEFIED if they keep Azerite Armor around for 9.0.

    Do you think Blizzard paid any attention to 33.34% crit for frost, it's looking like we will never hit that for BFA expansion. My concern being their internal testing is assuming we can achieve the soft crit cap and therefore DPS is being throttled to account for said cap. Also historically frost has been built around achieving that soft cap.

    One big culprit to preventing soft crit cap is the lack of secondaries on Azerite armor. Other being the stat crunch with 8.0 launch.
    Cap's not really a mandatory thing, just an interesting modifier on the Crit stat that makes it somewhat desirable. NOT achieving it lets Frost's Crit scaling continue through all the tiers instead of getting railroaded into a quarter of your stats are garbage after the Xth tier once obtained. We scale absolutely insanely with Azerite ilvl if you've got FF, so lack of secondaries on them is moot.

    Early expansion will always favour it since it'll be the single largest jump in damage until you start getting enough Int that the other stats have enough to work with. But an end tier where we're not capped? Great. Room to grow with the rest of the specs.

    Current tuning aside, of course. The spec needs FF fixed+global tuned up about 10% (iirc)+Lance up individually. But that's through no fault of stats. ...Aside from the whole Mastery pushing Lance out of the picture thing. But that's also FF making Mastery dumb.

    Internal testing is cross referenced with SimC and actual raid performance. We're in a kind of poor spot due to there not being many top end Mages playing Frost in the raid, so you can't judge raid performance too well. We sim decently well, although T24 profiles weren't ever finished for all specs, so it was never posted on the primary site. It's just that Fire's execute niche is too good, and Frost's 2t niche is the weakest of the 2t specialists. Arcane's fine aside from cooldown timings not being great in TEP, but you'll probably see a bunch of it in Ny'alotha.

    -------

    As to the actual topic: Frostburn needs to replace Icicles as Mastery, and Icicles need to be a spec feature at a flat SP%. Flurry needs to be a 20s, 2 charge system with BF half-charge refill. This fixes like 5 different problems with the spec design; relative stat values should all be roughly in line, Mastery no longer pushes Ice Lance out of the rotation ever, Glacial Spike can be tuned without odd knock-on effects, and the charge Flurry means you won't have to wait at 5 Icicles for GS. Frostburn basically codifies the mini-combo as the default method of play, and stats only make that stronger. Orb should be considered Frozen at all times, to match the current Orb/Mastery interaction and to provide a slight bump in AoE. IV should increase BF recharge rate in addition to current effects, and be extended to 30s default to actually provide some power behind it as a 3m CD.

    We've actually simulated the above changes and it makes the spec feel pretty wonderful to play, and there's no oddities in stats that suddenly break it. Returning Alter Time would be very welcome, as Ion said that was a pretty big one on the table. Saving Icicle state into a big GS>build>GS>end AT>GS again would be slightly disgusting and I welcome it.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2019-10-30 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #69
    cone of cold, blizzard, arcane explosion and dragons breath should be classwide imo. I wanna be able to slow/disorient things regardless of what spec i play.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Natrii View Post
    I want fire to get frost's mastery and pyro be turned into glacial spike mechanic with how icicles work, but I want at the 5 stack for the pyro(that has the damage for 5 spells that crit adjusted by mastery) to be instant. The "Icicles "(give it some fire name) will generate on crit of fireball and pyro crit. This seem like a chance to keep crit focus and build to a thematically satisfying pyro.

    Just an idea.
    hmm, pass. The heating up/hotstreak mechanic is imo the most satisying thing of all the mage rotations.
    Im all game for making glacial spike instant thou. That would solve the annoyance of having to fish for or hold on to flurry procs.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  10. #70
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Im all game for making glacial spike instant thou. That would solve the annoyance of having to fish for or hold on to flurry procs.
    Pass. Ruins GS as a source of Shatter damage. Plus, you'd just Flurry>GS in that scenario. You change nothing.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    snip
    Thank for thoughts on soft crit cap.

    Really like what you have laid out on actual topic and hope Blizzard is listening to your thoughts. Moving Flurry to a charge system, love it. Also would like to see 3rd charge of FoF return.

  12. #72
    I miss alter time.
    I miss mirror images purely for the threat mechanic.
    I miss being able to slow mobs with blizzard/cone of cold.
    I miss being able to stun mobs with deep freeze.
    I already miss the range on dragons breath..
    I miss using our bomb spells (living bomb/frostbomb/arcane torrent). (and them actually being usefull...)
    I miss cone of cold actually doing damage like in classic/vanilla wow.
    I and every mage ive ever spoken to hate rune of power and have hated it since its implementation.

    I also feel that combustion is too powerfull atm. Im utterly useless inbetween combustions and it really shows in m+ or on trash in general where one pack i pull 100k+ and the next i barely do 40k.

    Talents shouldnt have abilities, only ability tweaks. The abilitys should be part of the base spec! I hate "having to" forego abilities because a passive is the stronger talentchoice.

    Things like meteor/cometstorm/arcane orb/ebonbolt/phoenix flame/living bomb/frostbomb/arcane torrent. All those should be baseline for their respective spec imo.
    And the talent choices should come down to (do i want icelance to cleave or do i want blizzard to be instant cast?) or something along those lines.
    Passive dmg buffs should be removed from talents alltogether, all choices should be "wich ability do i wanna tweak for this fight?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Pass. Ruins GS as a source of Shatter damage. Plus, you'd just Flurry>GS in that scenario. You change nothing.
    thats the idea, i dont want it to be possible to flurry the gs (and ofc also have it buffed to compensate). because either holding flurry procs for it, or fishing flurry procs for it both feels like a bad design.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by meowfurion View Post
    Add Time as a spec.

    Let it be a healing and support spec for mages.

    Chronomancer needs to exist.
    I am legitimately tired of people like you trying to destroy pure DPS classes. There does not NEED to be an extra healer with a time aesthetic. Mages have had 2 abilities EVER that referenced time magic. Alter time and Time Warp. Do you even have a compelling idea for the gameplay of a healing time mage?

  14. #74
    Arcane missiles should have be influenced by arcane charges,
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    I am legitimately tired of people like you trying to destroy pure DPS classes. There does not NEED to be an extra healer with a time aesthetic. Mages have had 2 abilities EVER that referenced time magic. Alter time and Time Warp. Do you even have a compelling idea for the gameplay of a healing time mage?
    Please explain how me suggesting this would somehow destroy your ability to play a mage how you want.

    There does not need to be any extra classes at all. It's called "options" and having them added does not somehow diminish your ability to enjoy the game, unless you yourself let it which I can't control.

    Blizzard devs themselves contemplated adding a Time spec to mages (I don't feel like digging up the post, and I don't think you'll even try, since you seem so intent on being emotionally....whatever that is over such a small suggestion).

    I do have a compelling idea for the gameplay of a healing TIme Mage -- it echoes the one that the Blizzard Devs themselves had. Using time to turn back wounds, or to speed up healing.

    Take a step back.....it's not this serious.
    If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.

  16. #76
    I need the WoD incarnation of Combustion back, having enjoyed that glorious shitshow you just can't appreciate the current watered down bullshit.

  17. #77
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    Now ill have to fill every frostbolt with the fireblast bullshit and spam my heart out on aoe with arcane explosion while blizzard is on cd.

    Sigh, wtf.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    cone of cold, blizzard, arcane explosion and dragons breath should be classwide imo. I wanna be able to slow/disorient things regardless of what spec i play.
    I'm down with Cone of Cold, as that ability was useful and damn satisfying to use and I'd love to see it return. Arcane explosion was kind of a staple for getting rogues out of stealth, so I'm glad to have it back. Same thing with Blizzard, although both Blizzard and Arcane Explosion weren't really included in fire's aoe rotation anyway, as that was were the spec specific spells shone naturally.

    Dragon's Breath, on the other hand, would be overkill for frost mages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy2 View Post
    I need the WoD incarnation of Combustion back, having enjoyed that glorious shitshow you just can't appreciate the current watered down bullshit.
    WoD? Nah mate, Cata Combustion was where it's at. :P

  19. #79
    WoD? Nah mate, Cata Combustion was where it's at. :P
    Oh sure Cataclysm combustion was sweet, but the double spread of ignite, target swap for combustion and then spreading that shit all over was absolutely glorious, getting the perfect combustion on mythic Trainfuck/Iron Maidens/Blast Furnace was better than sex.

  20. #80
    My Ideas

    FIRE:
    Fiery Entiry: Summon a Fiery Entiry to attack by your side, like some of the monk spirit things but fiery, this permanent pet will melee your target and apply a dot that will boost your fireball, pyro, fireblast dmg by a certain amount. You have the choice to explode the Entity to do big dmg to target and anything around it, you can't summon another Entiry for a while.

    Flame Hunger or Combustion?: Absorb the ignites of all your enemies to increase your haste by x% and damage by y% for z seconds, the duration will be proportional to the absorbed ignite damage up to z seconds. Basically eliminate some / most / all of your ignite damage from the enemies and turn your into a nasty fire machine gun for a small time, duration would be capped to avoid staying 2 days with this buff.

    A talent or whatever to make your meteor and flame patch dots to stay on the target it hits instead of on the floor.

    FROST:
    i would implement a mechanic that if the target is immune to slows then the spell would do a x% more dmg, would help on raid bosses and not be super OP in PVP.

    Make Comet Storm baseline to frost, that spell looks sexy.

    Frozen Orb: Same but with the following change: The orb will damage your enemies and / or aid your raid members it passes through, the positive effect will vary depending on the raid member role. Healers: Infuse then with refreshing chill increasing their heals potency by x% for x seconds. DPS: Their attacks will do x amount of extra frost damage for x seconds. TANKS: Their skin will harden and reduce their dmg taken by x% by x seconds.

    Ice Wall: Create a wall of ice in front of you that will protect you and your allies reducing their dmg taken by x% while they stay behind the wall or while the wall stands, (Wall can absorb up to x amount of damage). Yes we can now save ppl with our stuff!!!! Obviously the wall should not be too big, just a little arc in front of you.

    Ice Form (Replaces Ice Block): You turn into a statue of ice making immune to all damage for x seconds, while in ice form you can still slide at a 50% reduced movement speed.

    ARCANE:
    Quickening Trance: Create an X yard wide aura around yourself for 10 seconds that increases your haste by x%, this effect will also affect up to 3 raid members, if your raid members stay inside for more than 6 seconds they will be stunned for x seconds.

    Arcane Orb: Same but make it return to you, and if you catch it generate x amount of arcane charges.

    I know some of the ideas wild, but what do you want, im a mage!!!! blizz could balance with numbers so this does not become crazy or maybe it already is... sue me.

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