Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[kaelleria]

We're back up to 10 again for the November debate....

Tulsi just qualified unfortunately

New Quinnipiac IOWA poll (Counts for the November and December debates)
Warren 20%
Buttigieg 19%
Sanders 17%
Biden 15%
Klobuchar 5%
Harris 4%
Gabbard 3%
Yang 3%
https://t.co/W4uC57dnsg

[Themius]

I like being able to choose my insurance, I like having choice. Medicare for all will be disasterous long term.
Biden knows this which is why he will win. Fringe loony left candidates do not and they will loose.

Medicare for All Means Innovation for None
https://reason.org/commentary/medica...tion-for-none/

This seems like a rather stupid article considering much innovation in medicine COMES FROM GOVERNMENT FUNDED RESEARCH.

- - - Updated - - -

We're back up to 10 again for the November debate....

Tulsi just qualified unfortunately

New Quinnipiac IOWA poll (Counts for the November and December debates)
Warren 20%
Buttigieg 19%
Sanders 17%
Biden 15%
Klobuchar 5%
Harris 4%
Gabbard 3%
Yang 3%
https://t.co/W4uC57dnsg

Seriously just cut the fucking shitty candidates off.

Like below 5%, goodbye.

[Edge-]

This seems like a rather stupid article considering much innovation in medicine COMES FROM GOVERNMENT FUNDED RESEARCH.

It's a Reason post, i.e. Libertarian nutters who don't understand reality.

[cubby]

Seriously just cut the fucking shitty candidates off.

Like below 5%, goodbye.

Agreed. This is too much, too long. It's just going to be a relative shit show of gotcha questions that might end up harming the final candidate.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...can-beat-trump

Biden sent a fundraising email to supporters citing a New York Times-Siena College poll released Monday showing him ahead in a hypothetical 2020 match-up with Trump in key swing states while Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) trail the president in the same states.

"This speaks for itself," Biden’s campaign said. "If Joe Biden wins the primary, he can beat Trump in a general election. Other candidates can’t."

Biden needs to hire new, competent campaign staff, or needs to fucking listen to them. This is such a painfully stupid thing to send out as it damages the rest of the field and gives media an easy way to run articles like this.

He's lost his touch, if he ever had it to begin with (No, not talking about him being handsy with everyone), and his campaign seems to be him largely bumbling from one unforced error to the next.

Do you know who else used language about being the only one to be able to do something? Fucking Trump. Don't be Trump.

[CostinR]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...can-beat-trump

Biden needs to hire new, competent campaign staff, or needs to fucking listen to them. This is such a painfully stupid thing to send out as it damages the rest of the field and gives media an easy way to run articles like this.

He's lost his touch, if he ever had it to begin with (No, not talking about him being handsy with everyone), and his campaign seems to be him largely bumbling from one unforced error to the next.

Do you know who else used language about being the only one to be able to do something? Fucking Trump. Don't be Trump.

So what? Welcome to politics. If you can't take an attack you won't win.

Or do you sincerely think Trump will care to be "nice" when he's got a 2 billion election machine ready to steamroll anyone that stands in his way? Nice fantasy.

You know who thought the same way you did just here back in 2016? Republicans. You know who had their party hijacked and taken over by the orange man who didn't give a crap? Yeah Republicans. Biden wants to win, people crying over it speaks more about the fact they want someone else as the nominee.

Biden is the guy best suited towards beating Trump. Virtually all the polls have shown this consistently.

[Draco-Onis]

So what? Welcome to politics. If you can't take an attack you won't win.

Or do you sincerely think Trump will care to be "nice" when he's got a 2 billion election machine ready to steamroll anyone that stands in his way? Nice fantasy.

You know who thought the same way you did just here back in 2016? Republicans. You know who had their party hijacked and taken over by the orange man who didn't give a crap? Yeah Republicans. Biden wants to win, people crying over it speaks more about the fact they want someone else as the nominee.

Biden is the guy best suited towards beating Trump. Virtually all the polls have shown this consistently.

Biden doesn't know how to run a campaign he has run several times for president and failed. As for polling several other candidates also beat Trump but polls this far out are pretty useless.

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Agreed. This is too much, too long. It's just going to be a relative shit show of gotcha questions that might end up harming the final candidate.

The networks don't care about the country they only want ratings and more candidates means more chance for drama, they have run these debates like a reality show.

[Theodarzna]

I am amazed that Kamala Harris suggested extended school hour sessions to 6PM mainly to time with when a lot of working professionals get off work. I don't believe it wise to essentially treat school as a defacto daycare facility. Plus there is just something so chilling about that. What is wrong is that people are working so much and not able to spend time with in their homes with their children.

[Draco-Onis]

I am amazed that Kamala Harris suggested extended school hour sessions to 6PM mainly to time with when a lot of working professionals get off work. I don't believe it wise to essentially treat school as a defacto daycare facility. Plus there is just something so chilling about that.

I don't see a problem with that recommendation as long as kids get to go to school much later, the current school schedule is bad for their sleep cycle and growth.

What is wrong is that people are working so much and not able to spend time with in their homes with their children.

Decades of wage stagnation, low paying jobs has lead to the destruction of the family unit that's something both sides stood by and let happen while letting the rich get richer and more influential. Each generation of American aside from technological advances is financially worse off than the last requiring more work just to get by. There's nothing wrong with people there aren't many people who want to work more than they have to they are just trying to get out from under water.

[Blur4stuff]

Biden is not and was never the best candidate. He's proven this time and time again for over a decade. It was never going to be him. Polling for him until recently (and still to a point) is heavily biased by people remembering how much better we all were with Obama as president. The past three years has been one endless dumpster fire on top of a train wreck.

Even if he had gotten the nomination his numbers would have ended up being worse a year from now compared to either Sanders or Warren. This is what makes Trump's corrupt behavior regarding forcing other countries to attack Biden even more stupid. Biden isn't even in the top 5 best candidates.

[Milchshake]

I don't see a problem with that recommendation as long as kids get to go to school much later, the current school schedule is bad for their sleep cycle and growth.



Decades of wage stagnation, low paying jobs has lead to the destruction of the family unit that's something both sides stood by and let happen while letting the rich get richer and more influential. Each generation of American aside from technological advances is financially worse off than the last requiring more work just to get by. There's nothing wrong with people there aren't many people who want to work more than they have to they are just trying to get out from under water.

Kamala Harris is not trying to make your kids go to school until 6 pm. She wants to fund aftercare programs of the kind that already exist in public schools with affluent PTAs. Her suggestion was for all schools to have optional afterschool programs to 6. Since the school day is typically 2 hours shorter than a parents work day.

A nice option for working parents, especially single parents.

Stay at home Beckys or those with nannies seem to be the one's complaining the most about Karris.

[Flarelaine]

I am amazed that Kamala Harris suggested extended school hour sessions to 6PM mainly to time with when a lot of working professionals get off work. I don't believe it wise to essentially treat school as a defacto daycare facility. Plus there is just something so chilling about that. What is wrong is that people are working so much and not able to spend time with in their homes with their children.

I don't see a problem with the daycare aspect, it would help families where both parents work and cannot simply choose to spend that time with their children. I think implementation would be the real dilemma. However, extending sessions to 6PM is murder. Kids can only process so much education in a day. I guess Harris is feeling she's slipping and beginning to swing wildly.

[Blur4stuff]

I see the "school isn't daycare" argument a lot and to a point I agree, but it can't be both ways regarding parents and wages. On one hand you have republicans more than willing to keep millions of Americans working low wage jobs. Many homes need both parents to work. You can't then also support making it even harder for people to deal with their kids.

This kind of conflict in their positions reminds me of other issues like abortion. They don't want women to get abortions yet they also want to make it harder for women to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

[Skroe]

I see the "school isn't daycare" argument a lot and to a point I agree, but it can't be both ways regarding parents and wages. On one hand you have republicans more than willing to keep millions of Americans working low wage jobs. Many homes need both parents to work. You can't then also support making it even harder for people to deal with their kids.

This kind of conflict in their positions reminds me of other issues like abortion. They don't want women to get abortions yet they also want to make it harder for women to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

THere is an interesting historical aside to this from the angle of the child, particularly adolescents, late adolescents and young adults.

One of the most consistently vexing things in the history of human civilization that cuts across time, culture, and continents is how societies handle young people, particularly young men. Bored young men cause revolutions. They destabilizing governments. They group up with other bored young men. They lead to surges in criminality and antisocial behavior. As far back as Ancient Greece, when life exptency was a fraction of what it is now, this has been the norm. You get a bunch of young people together, with few prospects and not really doing anything, and bad things happen. In just the last 220 years, massive wars in Europe and across the world have been enable by an unprecedented number of "bored young people" existed there to be pulled into the largest armies in history. One of the leading inhibitors of another conflict of that scale today is that the developed world has far fewer "people of fighting age" who are inclined to do the actual fighting. They are instead in involved in other things.

The same is true of women too. Bored young women, especially those without access to family planning, have children earlier in life. Which means they have more children over all. Which leads to unsustainable population growth and a vicious cycle of the problem.

How to transition people in their mid teens becoming productive members of society (in modern terms) is an age old problem that's been attacked from many angles. The modern approach is mandatory education to a certain age, then transition into either higher education or the beginning of a a career. One of the problems of the tepid growth in the world, and particularly doggedly high unemployment in Europe, is that it is disrupting this conveyor belt, leading to lots of "bored young people".

So while there is certainly merit to the argument that school isn't daycare, we also can't ignore that the modern approach to keeping people off the streets and out of trouble... doing something productive to put it plainly... is an essential part of creating a stabilized society and keeping international order.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1192237965113790466

Gotta pander to the ultra-rich, I suppose.

[Endus]

Kamala Harris is not trying to make your kids go to school until 6 pm. She wants to fund aftercare programs of the kind that already exist in public schools with affluent PTAs. Her suggestion was for all schools to have optional afterschool programs to 6. Since the school day is typically 2 hours shorter than a parents work day.

A nice option for working parents, especially single parents.

Stay at home Beckys or those with nannies seem to be the one's complaining the most about Karris.

It's exactly the wrong approach, frankly.

We should be aiming to rework the labour system such that a reasonable working-class 40-hour-a-week job pays enough to support a family of 4-5. That would leave one of two parents at home and able to manage whatever school schedule the kids have. Single parents would have more money and be better-able to pay for after-school programming (not ideal, and I support further aid, but that's a separate issue really).

Single-income households should be the norm around which the economy is balanced, again. If both parents work decent jobs, they should be making more than enough for full-time child care.

Fix the societal problems at their root. What Harris is proposing is like sticking chewing gum in a cracked foundation; you feel like you're helping, but it's not gonna fix a damned thing.

[Skroe]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1192237965113790466

Gotta pander to the ultra-rich, I suppose.

More along the lines of "Elizabeth Warren is just trying to not be a dick".

We've had quite enough of WWE-style politics.

[Draco-Onis]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1192237965113790466

Gotta pander to the ultra-rich, I suppose.

So your complaint is that she is being civil.....

[Theodarzna]

I don't see a problem with that recommendation as long as kids get to go to school much later, the current school schedule is bad for their sleep cycle and growth.



Decades of wage stagnation, low paying jobs has lead to the destruction of the family unit that's something both sides stood by and let happen while letting the rich get richer and more influential. Each generation of American aside from technological advances is financially worse off than the last requiring more work just to get by. There's nothing wrong with people there aren't many people who want to work more than they have to they are just trying to get out from under water.

If the proposal came with a later start I'd agree, but it actually doesn't. Its extending the school day by three hours. I mean, ultimately it is a mandate for further extracarriculars but I am of the belief that to some extent that doesn't necessarily help and having kids hitting the grind of school from say 8AM to 6PM of largely unbroken structured learning and activities is a long grind for any kids. Little kids, so Kinders on to 6th graders that is just too damn long, and really some kind of free rec would be better after the usual 3:15 point. Maybe Middle School and High School it might be okay, but even then; I have a lot of sympathy for a kid who say is being forced by their parent to take band, or some other program simply because the parent wants to put in more hours. You are inevitably going to get some miserable kid stuck in a program they hate for another three hours after already spending many hours in school mostly just waiting to go home.

I know this both as a teacher and as someone who worked for after school programs too. Either way the kids have their own interests and ideas about what they want to do; and keeping them in a structured environment until 6PM.... assuming a 9PM bedtime or 8 for the littles is like 2 hours of relative freedom on a week day. You can't cater to all kids interests AND follow state guidelines AND ensure relative safety AND be able to keep the kids following basic rules.

I also think it'd be better to address those problems then simply have families spend more time apart.

I don't see a problem with the daycare aspect, it would help families where both parents work and cannot simply choose to spend that time with their children. I think implementation would be the real dilemma. However, extending sessions to 6PM is murder. Kids can only process so much education in a day. I guess Harris is feeling she's slipping and beginning to swing wildly.

I think if you add a daycare mandate than on behalf of all teachers in the USA I demand is HUGE fucking pay increase. At that point I might as well have the job title of surrogate mom since I'm spending more time with them than their parents do.

[Benggaul]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1192237965113790466

Gotta pander to the ultra-rich, I suppose.

Being polite is not the same as pandering. Not every political race needs to be a shitshow of mudslinging and derogatory epithets.