1. #4381
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobb View Post
    The ACA and Net Neutrality to name a couple are not considered to be progressive?
    Bombing weddings is? Not going after the banks is?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    You aren't thinking big enough. If they get buttrustled enough about Bernie "not being treated fairly" they will vote for Trump out of spite. Again.
    Yet that did not happen last time, is it fun to just pull stuff out of nowhere?
    Conservatism and its off-shoots are the most rotten idealogies to ever exist in human history.
    Liberalism = right-wing.
    Anarcho-communism =/ Stalinism.

  2. #4382
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    You mean the same Pat Buchannan that recently (January 14) wrote THIS about Bernie Sanders???

    https://original.antiwar.com/buchana...ion-to-bernie/
    Yeah, shocking enough its why Bernie is uniquely able to attract a broader base of support. Bernie had a lot of credibility on the "Not get involved in forever war" front; more so than any other candidate. Sanders also has been consistently a Paladin against the oligarchical elite. So for example in 80's when Warren was their chief advocate, vociferously advocating for the Reagan Revolution, Sanders was fighting that stuff. So if anyone can be trusted to actually put a boot to the neck of the ruling class, its Sanders. The rest of the DNC pack save for Gabbard (Who immediately spoke in defense of Sanders against Snake Warren by the way) are completely untrustworthy on this point.

    Plus, that reflects Sanders electability; he can gather voters that other candidates really can't get. Warren has the WeWork, Professional Managerial Class anxious about their social position, and "Girl Boss" and Wine Aunt types on lock, but they were going to vote Democrat no matter what was run. Biden brings the same coalition and some old people not paying much attention until his horrific stances on trade, economics, health care, and war get him blown the fuck out. With Biden you are essentially voting for a Trump presidency that will have better manners and keep the evil under the surface.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2020-01-15 at 04:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  3. #4383
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    "Bernie Bros" did not vote for Trump in any sort of considerable numbers to matter last election and it won't happen now. They either won't vote or vote third party should he run that.

    I was a full on hater of "bernie bros" myself even tho he was my preferred candidate back in 2016 but I'm tired of compromising with conservatives and neolibs scared to rock the boat so I guess I'm a "bernie bro" now

  4. #4384
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    What difference does it make? If Sanders loses, then we get Biden, which means we'll just get another Trump in 4 years.
    Even if Biden won, the fact is all he would do is set the stage for the next Trump. A more aggressive, more angry, more destructive one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  5. #4385
    I am Murloc! Slacker76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Because people like you are children who can't handle losses?
    The weird thing, it's some European guys throwing the biggest fits. Why the try-harding? Maybe some Democrat spit on their waffle back in grade school kindergarten.
    In the 2016 Hillary thread, the biggest leftist cranks was a guy posturing from Finland.

    I'm really curious on what causes this phenomena, why do "European leftists" internalize Fox News talking points on gaming boards? The truth is out there.

    Politics needs a splash screen or some introduction...

    Welcome to /politics, have a seat.
    We'll introduce you to the 23 year old European Leftist who will lecture you about Democrats didnt try hard enough with the ACA.
    Then you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul until 2015 to sea-lion you, forever.

  6. #4386
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    The ACA is a neoliberal mess that nobody understands.
    Not only nobody understands but is a general pain to interact with. You have to enroll, re-enroll, interface with a bureaucrat who may themselves not know how it works properly, and mistakes can lead to huge fines.

    It is the kind of policy only a wonk could love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    The weird thing, it's some European guys throwing the biggest fits. Why the try-harding? Maybe some Democrat spit on their waffle back in grade school kindergarten.
    In the 2016 Hillary thread, the biggest leftist cranks was a guy posturing from Finland.

    I'm really curious on what causes this phenomena, why do "European leftists" internalize Fox News talking points on gaming boards? The truth is out there.

    Politics needs a splash screen or some introduction...

    Welcome to /politics, have a seat.
    We'll introduce you to the 23 year old European Leftist who will lecture you about Democrats didnt try hard enough with the ACA.
    Then you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul until 2015 to sea-lion you, forever.
    I think taking on the mantle of some ideology whilst actively not believing in it or advocating for it is terribly dishonest. If you are a Woke Neo-Liberal; than just be that. There is the distinct possibility out there that CNN and MSNBC are not really advocates for Socialism in any real way. If the metric for "Leftist" is "What do talking heads at MSNBC say" than sure, but that is an incredible stretch. If say the benchmark for "Left" is say adherence to Marxist analysis, than decidedly a lot of people in the United States, including the majority of DSA participants are not up to snuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  7. #4387
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    "Bernie Bros" did not vote for Trump in any sort of considerable numbers to matter last election and it won't happen now. They either won't vote or vote third party should he run that.

    I was a full on hater of "bernie bros" myself even tho he was my preferred candidate back in 2016 but I'm tired of compromising with conservatives and neolibs scared to rock the boat so I guess I'm a "bernie bro" now
    Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds

  8. #4388
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Also, what is sad about that trashfire debate was that Biden essentially defended the TTP/TTIP, isn't for universal health care at all, didn't apologize for the Iraq War, backs NAFTA, and ended with a "Love Trumps Hate" character case. Biden is running a Hillary Clinton campaign but without the ability to use Wokeness as a weapon, so a shittier Clintonite campaign. How anyone could see Biden doing any better than her is beyond me.

    Biden is running as a status quo candidate, something one would think impossible given that he isn't the incumbent.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2020-01-15 at 05:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет - Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics.

  9. #4389
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobb View Post
    Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds
    I decided not to care about Bernie Bros. They are most surely giving Trump another 4 years and undoing whatever progress moderates made in the midterms. Its going to suck for most people but I dont really care
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  10. #4390
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobb View Post
    Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds
    Clinton should have campaigned harder in those states. Article even ends off saying so. Bernie bros are not the reason Trump won.

  11. #4391
    Still interesting watching people blame "Bernie Bros" for the failings of Clinton and her people like Clinton was owed the votes or something while also ignoring that the margins were even worse when it came to the previous Clinton election with her own voters.

    You want someone to blame, blame the candidate who basically flipped their own base the bird thinking they had no choice otherwise she would have had more votes from them.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  12. #4392
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Still interesting watching people blame "Bernie Bros" for the failings of Clinton and her people like Clinton was owed the votes or something while also ignoring that the margins were even worse when it came to the previous Clinton election with her own voters.

    You want someone to blame, blame the candidate who basically flipped their own base the bird thinking they had no choice otherwise she would have had more votes from them.
    I mean you wont acknowledge that Bernie fucking himself despite it being his race to loose. I'll tell you again Obama had a bigger uphill battle and crushed Hillary. Bernie lost because in no small part of his own poor choices. Not like you've got much of a high horse to look down your nose from. Hillary basically cleared the field for Bernie as she sucked all the talent that would normally be distributed among a dozen or so democratic candidates which gave him a solid shot in 2016 that he botched and 2016 in no small part gave him the massive name recognition advantage he went into for this one.

    I blame stupid people for being stupid. And if you think Bernie running 3rd party is going to do anything but help Trump regardless of how wrong/your lack of understanding/bernie victim complex about 2016 you are stupid.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  13. #4393
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Still interesting watching people blame "Bernie Bros" for the failings of Clinton and her people like Clinton was owed the votes or something while also ignoring that the margins were even worse when it came to the previous Clinton election with her own voters.

    You want someone to blame, blame the candidate who basically flipped their own base the bird thinking they had no choice otherwise she would have had more votes from them.
    Honestly, I think anyone saying "Clinton didn't lose because of X, she lost because of Y" is oversimplifying things to a useless degree. There are a whole host of reasons why she lost, some of which were out of her control and some of which definitely were not, and it's disingenuous to try and blame a single one to the exclusion of all others.

    That being said, she lost by such a narrow margin that it IS entirely possible to point to several of the factors that were out of her control and say that if not for any one of them, she might have won.

  14. #4394
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Honestly, I think anyone saying "Clinton didn't lose because of X, she lost because of Y" is oversimplifying things to a useless degree. There are a whole host of reasons why she lost, some of which were out of her control and some of which definitely were not, and it's disingenuous to try and blame a single one to the exclusion of all others.

    That being said, she lost by such a narrow margin that it IS entirely possible to point to several of the factors that were out of her control and say that if not for any one of them, she might have won.
    Oh yeah, Comey took her out, her refusal to campaign in those states took her out, when DWS was forced to step down after trying to rig stuff in Clinton's favor only to have Clinton pick her up that same day and put her in her campaign took her out (And was the final straw that had me decide not to vote for her). But out of all of them, Bernie Bros weren't really the big one.
    @shimerra

    Nice revisionist history there buddy.

    Sanders uphill battle was a major one given the media blackout they had on him till near the end when it was too late. I remember Bush had dropped out for something like 2 months before Sanders even caught up with him in coverage.

    And what are you talking about his "Poor choices"?

    And who the hell said anything about Sanders running 3rd party? Don't project your victim complex with Clinton onto me there buddy.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  15. #4395
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Clinton should have campaigned harder in those states. Article even ends off saying so. Bernie bros are not the reason Trump won.
    Clinton had a lot of issues with her campaign, not denying that part. But as the chart shows Trump only won those states because of the Bernie Bro vote. So yes Trump won the election because of them.

  16. #4396
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    In another 4-8 years another several million mostly religious and majority Caucasian Boomers and Silent generation people will have croaked and another several million less religious, mostly mixed race/minority Gen Zers will take their place in the voting populace, not exactly those in the GOP's wheelhouse.
    I bet you a large percentage of those Gen Zers after spending 4-8 years in the real world will re-register as republican.

  17. #4397
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    I bet you a large percentage of those Gen Zers after spending 4-8 years in the real world will re-register as republican.
    I bet you have down syndrome.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-01-19 at 02:39 AM. Reason: Minor Flaming
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

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  18. #4398
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobb View Post
    Clinton had a lot of issues with her campaign, not denying that part. But as the chart shows Trump only won those states because of the Bernie Bro vote. So yes Trump won the election because of them.
    IF the chart is correct. Article also states that. Clinton lost on her own merits don't blame sanders supporters.

  19. #4399
    Wash Post and The Hill seem to think Warren had a good night. (Sometimes a show of temper can be a good thing)
    And the other side of the equation, they don't think Sanders did bad with his rebuttals.
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  20. #4400
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Wash Post and The Hill seem to think Warren had a good night. (Sometimes a show of temper can be a good thing)
    And the other side of the equation, they don't think Sanders did bad with his rebuttals.
    I've generally been hearing that Sanders and Warren did well, Biden and Buttigieg did okay, and if the others ever had a shot they don't now.

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