Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[shimerra]

Or people don't care about supporting candidates who don't care about them.

@Rochana

You baboons can support whoever you want. Not what I was calling you out on at all but i'm not surprised it's what you all glommed onto. Bernie's gonna be dog shit when it comes to actually being a president who can push through his policy advancements and 90% of what he can do using his powers as president most of the other candidates are going to do as well. Obama couldn't even push through a government option over blue dog democrats. Bernie's shit's gonna be dead in the water because he's showing he'll love his bully pullpit but have all the skills to negotiate with congress as a wet paper towel has to put out a high rise fire.


I'm talking about your stupid wa wa my guy lost he should run 3rd party bit. That will objectively only help Trump and if you're fine with providing Trump the single greatest advantage you can possibly given because you're that dumb well I guess that's your right. However, don't pretend that level of stupidity has anything to do with not "supporting" someone who doesn't care about them when you're asking for the single greatest thing the person who cares about you the least needs to get an easy win. Don't support the DNC candidate if it's not Bernie, that is your insanely derpy right to shoot yourself in the foot by giving Trump an extra leg up. But don't double down on your stupidity by thinking him running 3rd party is anything but supporting Trump in practice.


Infracted.

[Benggaul]

A vote for Biden (or any of the other candidates) is basically a vote for Obama-era politics, which is how we got Trump in the first place. Personally, I'd prefer not to have a President Tom Cotton 4 years down the road.

Nope. Again, that doesn't automatically follow. And again, there won't be "Obama-era politics"--or "Bernie politics", for that matter--given that any substantially progressive policies will be blocked in the Senate. This election is purely staunching the wound and starting to heal the damage so that ACTUAL progress can be made in the future.

I like Bernie--though he is not my first choice--and will happily vote for him if he won the nomination, but the "Bernie or Bust" crowd are killing his chances as much as anything else with their scorched earth approach to the General Election and are also helping to ensure that their brand of "my way or the highway" progressivism is nearly as reviled as the Trump supporters.

[JohnBrown1917]

Nope. Again, that doesn't automatically follow. And again, there won't be "Obama-era politics"--or "Bernie politics", for that matter--given that any substantially progressive policies will be blocked in the Senate. This election is purely staunching the wound and starting to heal the damage so that ACTUAL progress can be made in the future.

I like Bernie--though he is not my first choice--and will happily vote for him if he won the nomination, but the "Bernie or Bust" crowd are killing his chances as much as anything else with their scorched earth approach to the General Election and are also helping to ensure that their brand of "my way or the highway" progressivism is nearly as reviled as the Trump supporters.

Good thing that Obama-era policies are not progressive.

[Benggaul]

Good thing that Obama-era policies are not progressive.

ALL of the eyeroll memes.

[JohnBrown1917]

ALL of the eyeroll memes.

Bombing wedding is very progressive.

[Martymark]

Not voting in the primary isn't an issue. If they refuse to vote in the General if it's not Sanders then they are being petty and childish and it's partly due to these people that we were given Trump in the first place.

You aren't thinking big enough. If they get buttrustled enough about Bernie "not being treated fairly" they will vote for Trump out of spite. Again.

[Hobb]

Good thing that Obama-era policies are not progressive.

The ACA and Net Neutrality to name a couple are not considered to be progressive?

[infinitemeridian]

The ACA and Net Neutrality to name a couple are not considered to be progressive?

The ACA is a neoliberal mess that nobody understands.

[JohnBrown1917]

The ACA and Net Neutrality to name a couple are not considered to be progressive?

Bombing weddings is? Not going after the banks is?

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You aren't thinking big enough. If they get buttrustled enough about Bernie "not being treated fairly" they will vote for Trump out of spite. Again.

Yet that did not happen last time, is it fun to just pull stuff out of nowhere?

[Theodarzna]

You mean the same Pat Buchannan that recently (January 14) wrote THIS about Bernie Sanders???

https://original.antiwar.com/buchana...ion-to-bernie/

Yeah, shocking enough its why Bernie is uniquely able to attract a broader base of support. Bernie had a lot of credibility on the "Not get involved in forever war" front; more so than any other candidate. Sanders also has been consistently a Paladin against the oligarchical elite. So for example in 80's when Warren was their chief advocate, vociferously advocating for the Reagan Revolution, Sanders was fighting that stuff. So if anyone can be trusted to actually put a boot to the neck of the ruling class, its Sanders. The rest of the DNC pack save for Gabbard (Who immediately spoke in defense of Sanders against Snake Warren by the way) are completely untrustworthy on this point.

Plus, that reflects Sanders electability; he can gather voters that other candidates really can't get. Warren has the WeWork, Professional Managerial Class anxious about their social position, and "Girl Boss" and Wine Aunt types on lock, but they were going to vote Democrat no matter what was run. Biden brings the same coalition and some old people not paying much attention until his horrific stances on trade, economics, health care, and war get him blown the fuck out. With Biden you are essentially voting for a Trump presidency that will have better manners and keep the evil under the surface.

[Dug]

"Bernie Bros" did not vote for Trump in any sort of considerable numbers to matter last election and it won't happen now. They either won't vote or vote third party should he run that.

I was a full on hater of "bernie bros" myself even tho he was my preferred candidate back in 2016 but I'm tired of compromising with conservatives and neolibs scared to rock the boat so I guess I'm a "bernie bro" now

[Theodarzna]

What difference does it make? If Sanders loses, then we get Biden, which means we'll just get another Trump in 4 years.

Even if Biden won, the fact is all he would do is set the stage for the next Trump. A more aggressive, more angry, more destructive one.

[Milchshake]

Because people like you are children who can't handle losses?

The weird thing, it's some European guys throwing the biggest fits. Why the try-harding? Maybe some Democrat spit on their waffle back in grade school kindergarten.
In the 2016 Hillary thread, the biggest leftist cranks was a guy posturing from Finland.

I'm really curious on what causes this phenomena, why do "European leftists" internalize Fox News talking points on gaming boards? The truth is out there.

Politics needs a splash screen or some introduction...

Welcome to /politics, have a seat.
We'll introduce you to the 23 year old European Leftist who will lecture you about Democrats didnt try hard enough with the ACA.
Then you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul until 2015 to sea-lion you, forever.

[Theodarzna]

The ACA is a neoliberal mess that nobody understands.

Not only nobody understands but is a general pain to interact with. You have to enroll, re-enroll, interface with a bureaucrat who may themselves not know how it works properly, and mistakes can lead to huge fines.

It is the kind of policy only a wonk could love.

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The weird thing, it's some European guys throwing the biggest fits. Why the try-harding? Maybe some Democrat spit on their waffle back in grade school kindergarten.
In the 2016 Hillary thread, the biggest leftist cranks was a guy posturing from Finland.

I'm really curious on what causes this phenomena, why do "European leftists" internalize Fox News talking points on gaming boards? The truth is out there.

Politics needs a splash screen or some introduction...

Welcome to /politics, have a seat.
We'll introduce you to the 23 year old European Leftist who will lecture you about Democrats didnt try hard enough with the ACA.
Then you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul until 2015 to sea-lion you, forever.

I think taking on the mantle of some ideology whilst actively not believing in it or advocating for it is terribly dishonest. If you are a Woke Neo-Liberal; than just be that. There is the distinct possibility out there that CNN and MSNBC are not really advocates for Socialism in any real way. If the metric for "Leftist" is "What do talking heads at MSNBC say" than sure, but that is an incredible stretch. If say the benchmark for "Left" is say adherence to Marxist analysis, than decidedly a lot of people in the United States, including the majority of DSA participants are not up to snuff.

[Hobb]

"Bernie Bros" did not vote for Trump in any sort of considerable numbers to matter last election and it won't happen now. They either won't vote or vote third party should he run that.

I was a full on hater of "bernie bros" myself even tho he was my preferred candidate back in 2016 but I'm tired of compromising with conservatives and neolibs scared to rock the boat so I guess I'm a "bernie bro" now

Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds

[Theodarzna]

Also, what is sad about that trashfire debate was that Biden essentially defended the TTP/TTIP, isn't for universal health care at all, didn't apologize for the Iraq War, backs NAFTA, and ended with a "Love Trumps Hate" character case. Biden is running a Hillary Clinton campaign but without the ability to use Wokeness as a weapon, so a shittier Clintonite campaign. How anyone could see Biden doing any better than her is beyond me.

Biden is running as a status quo candidate, something one would think impossible given that he isn't the incumbent.

[NED funded]

Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds

I decided not to care about Bernie Bros. They are most surely giving Trump another 4 years and undoing whatever progress moderates made in the midterms. Its going to suck for most people but I dont really care

[Dug]

Quite a bit of "Bernie Bros" vote Trump in the swing states to give Trump the election. In Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin all of which Trump won by 1% the "Bernie Bro" vote more than doubled Trump vote margin for winning the state.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds

Clinton should have campaigned harder in those states. Article even ends off saying so. Bernie bros are not the reason Trump won.

[Fugus]

Still interesting watching people blame "Bernie Bros" for the failings of Clinton and her people like Clinton was owed the votes or something while also ignoring that the margins were even worse when it came to the previous Clinton election with her own voters.

You want someone to blame, blame the candidate who basically flipped their own base the bird thinking they had no choice otherwise she would have had more votes from them.

[shimerra]

Still interesting watching people blame "Bernie Bros" for the failings of Clinton and her people like Clinton was owed the votes or something while also ignoring that the margins were even worse when it came to the previous Clinton election with her own voters.

You want someone to blame, blame the candidate who basically flipped their own base the bird thinking they had no choice otherwise she would have had more votes from them.

I mean you wont acknowledge that Bernie fucking himself despite it being his race to loose. I'll tell you again Obama had a bigger uphill battle and crushed Hillary. Bernie lost because in no small part of his own poor choices. Not like you've got much of a high horse to look down your nose from. Hillary basically cleared the field for Bernie as she sucked all the talent that would normally be distributed among a dozen or so democratic candidates which gave him a solid shot in 2016 that he botched and 2016 in no small part gave him the massive name recognition advantage he went into for this one.

I blame stupid people for being stupid. And if you think Bernie running 3rd party is going to do anything but help Trump regardless of how wrong/your lack of understanding/bernie victim complex about 2016 you are stupid.