1. #4481
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Why would CNN want to push a Sanders/Warren feud?
    Cause CNN is a corporate entity and thus a) naturally hostile to progressive candidates/causes that aren't in the interests of rich liberals and b) in possession of the profit motive to keep people hooked on a constantly changing 24 hour narrative.

    I know y'all like to claim CNN and all the other mainstream news sources have a left wing bias but that is distinctly not the case. There is no left or right wing mainstream media in the US, there's only corporate grift.
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    Banned matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Or he has serious reading comprehension issues, maybe both.
    Trust me, it's both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    That's interesting. I sort of view CNN as just a machine for the left, I hadn't really considered there would be factional preferences. I'm still not convinced; CNN didn't make Warren confront Sanders.
    This dumbass notion that CNN is "left" is just absurd that was started by trump because they criticized him, and we all know if you criticize trump you are a leftist right?

    CNN is more moderate and is just another big money company pushing their interests through the news like all the others do. #WheresYang?

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    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    This dumbass notion that CNN is "left" is just absurd that was started by trump because they criticized him, and we all know if you criticize trump you are a leftist right?

    CNN is more moderate and is just another big money company pushing their interests through the news like all the others do. #WheresYang?
    "They're left wing because they talk about what I think the left wing thinks and not what they actually believe."

    The left wing is talking about shit like climate change, Hong Kong, Chile, homelessness, etc. Shit that is not in the interests of rich liberals and therefore does not get coverage.
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  4. #4484
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    That's interesting. I sort of view CNN as just a machine for the left, I hadn't really considered there would be factional preferences. I'm still not convinced; CNN didn't make Warren confront Sanders.
    CNN is full of moderate establishments due paying Democrats. Thats assuming they are Dems. They hate Sanders with a capital H. Warren is tolerated as a convenient tool because she isn't the frontrunner.

  5. #4485
    Banned Wyrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    That's interesting. I sort of view CNN as just a machine for the left, I hadn't really considered there would be factional preferences. I'm still not convinced; CNN didn't make Warren confront Sanders.
    CNN isn't left wing. It only appears left wing because US politics are skewed to the right.

    The only real "left" policies CNN appears to support are social issues which largely amount to "Let's not be assholes to people for no reason" which shouldn't be a left or right issue, but is in this country for some god awful reason.

  6. #4486
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    I'll follow Theo's lead and would like to kindly ask for a citation.

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    What's funny about those McCarthy articles was that he was arguing that there never was any Trump/Russia conspiracy regarding the election, and I was convinced of his arguments, and tried to convince people here. That didn't go well. But he was right, almost two years before the Mueller report. Almost from day one. Nobody here wanted to hear anything of it, and I got a fair amount of stuff flung my way for arguing it. Kinda goes back to Theo's comments about the state of discourse. People get entrenched and it sometimes does feel like a waste of time unfortunately.
    His arguments of complete bullshit? And he wasn't right, there was instances of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia. And there was certainly a concerted effort to cover it up. Look at the 10 instances of obstruction that he shows.

  7. #4487
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    Similar system is found in many EU countries.
    -The parliament seats are assigned to locations.
    -Some areas have more people than other areas.
    -In an area with 10000 people, someone needs 5001 votes to get the parliament seat.
    -In an area with 1000000 people, someone needs 500001 votes to get the parliament seat
    -Whichever party wins more seats, wins the elections and elects PM.

    So yes, in essence, those 5001 voters and those 500001 voters have elected one person each, which feels like different worth of votes.
    I am not aware of any country that uses a different system. There may be some (or many) I don't have knowledge on it.
    I challenge you to name a single European country that allows such discrepancy between the size of constituencies. A hundredfold difference in size? Who are you trying to fool here?

  8. #4488
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I challenge you to name a single European country that allows such discrepancy between the size of constituencies. A hundredfold difference in size? Who are you trying to fool here?
    I concur with you.

    In Norway, a vote in Finnmark (remotest and least populated part of north-east norway) is worth ~2.6x as much as a vote in the capital of Oslo.
    And that's considered fairly extreme.
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  9. #4489
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Yep.

    I'm voting for anyone the DNC puts forward because fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Donald Trump, but Bernie is by far my favorite now. Warren was a close behind, but not anymore.

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    To divide progressives further and make Biden stronger.

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    Why the fuck would a guy who endorsed Hillary say that?

    Bernie's been fighting for feminism for decades.
    Bernie also said Hillary wasn't qualified to be president, despite later endorsing her.

    This is just what campaigning is. Campaigning is not real politics. It's a theater for fools who get fed heavily scripted gestures and slogans. Warren's playing it too. Putting your foot in your mouth is literally the spirit of campaigning. I don't care if Bernie said a woman couldn't be president. It doesn't even matter if he did. What if he's right? It's literally an evaluation of a political climate without any context.

    People want to gobble up bullshit. Welcome to the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    That's interesting. I sort of view CNN as just a machine for the left, I hadn't really considered there would be factional preferences. I'm still not convinced; CNN didn't make Warren confront Sanders.
    The Democratic Party has so much fucking in-fighting, it's amusing how the right believes some liberal hive-mind exists.

    I mean, yeah, the Republican Party is so fucking insane, the left all agrees that the right is beyond redemption, but once we set that aside, the adults are left to engage in actual governing, and huge differences in policy arise.

    By the way, this is CNN in a nutshell:

    "Democrats say this. Republicans say that. YOU DECIDE!"

    Basically they are fucking useless. Call that a machine for the left if you want, but you can thank the Republicans for this, by pushing that bullshit "fair and balanced" media narrative for decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Cause CNN is a corporate entity and thus a) naturally hostile to progressive candidates/causes that aren't in the interests of rich liberals and b) in possession of the profit motive to keep people hooked on a constantly changing 24 hour narrative.

    I know y'all like to claim CNN and all the other mainstream news sources have a left wing bias but that is distinctly not the case. There is no left or right wing mainstream media in the US, there's only corporate grift.
    If the Tea Party hijacked conservatism, Generation Z has hijacked progressivism.

    I honestly can't wait to see the future general election of AOC vs Ivanka. And both sides will think their candidate is a legitimate president. Not sure which party is stupider anymore.

  10. #4490
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    I concur with you.

    In Norway, a vote in Finnmark (remotest and least populated part of north-east norway) is worth ~2.6x as much as a vote in the capital of Oslo.
    And that's considered fairly extreme.
    Spain uses the D'Hontd method (known in the US as the Jeffersonian method) for proportional allocation, the same as Finland.

    Although Finland probably doesn't experience the same population density discrepancies as Spain.

    The vote of someone from Madrid is worth about 3.8x less than from the least populous region of Soria. Although the average is something like 1.4x to 1.7x less.

    100x is simply asinine.
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  11. #4491
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    I have no idea about the EC or how it works since I am not from US. I was talking about the voting system in Greece and UK. I specifically said EU countries. (ok the UK will leave, but they did not leave yet).
    I am not expert in every system out there that each country uses. But I am sure there are more than these 2 countries in the EU with it.
    And I'm telling you that the analogy to the EU doesn't work because the US doesn't use a system like any EU country to elect its head of state. That's why you're failing to follow the argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    It's not exactly much different to the first past the post system that the UK has.
    The UK's system is shit, yes, but no it's radically different. The Electoral College is a mechanism unlike any in the UK.

    The UK elects representatives (members of Parliament), and the party that gets the majority of seats (alone or in a coalition) forms the government. The head of that party is then the Prime Minister, ie the PM is not directly elected. Yes, each electorate uses FPTP (ie the candidate with the majority or at least plurality of votes wins), so vote splitting can occur at an electorate level. But the ruling party is ultimately determined by the number of electorates ("constituencies") voting for that party, and the electorates are of roughly equal population (this is managed by the Boundary Commissions). So vote-splitting aside, the head of state is roughly determined by the number of people across the nation voting for his or her party.

    The EC system which is used to elect the President of the US is not like that at all. Voting power is aggregated at state level, where it is already disproportionate to the population. The WTA rule is like FPTP on steroids - whether you win a state by 51% or 99% you take all of the state's EC votes, effectively disenfranchising about 40% of the population in each election. The fact that this happens at the state level rather than the electorate level like in the UK leads to a massive distortion of the voting numbers. Take for example, 3 million more people voting for Hillary than Trump, but her still losing because of a few thousand voters in certain key swing states like Florida.

    And yes, the US is also susceptible to vote splitting, so it has all the UK's problems and then way bigger ones of its own. The UK's system is most similar to the system used to elect the House of Representatives in the US. But they have the Senate (similar system but it elects two Senators per state and thus is completely disproportionate to population) and the Presidential elections (which uses the EC, pretty much unique to America).

    TLDR: the UK's system to elect its head of state is bad, the US system is much much worse. They are not similar systems at all.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2020-01-16 at 10:06 AM.
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  12. #4492
    Banned Wyrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post
    The Democratic Party has so much fucking in-fighting, it's amusing how the right believes some liberal hive-mind exists.
    Exactly. Republicans like to pretend the "Left" is some monolithic thing where everyone agrees on everything and is NPCs. But in reality this is just more projection from them since they're the ones in so much lock step with Trump that if they speak against him they get primaried and replaced by another Trump supporter.

    Republicans even miss the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of primaries when they try to mock Democrats for having "purity tests." That's the whole point of the nomination, sorting out which policies and ideals the voters support and what they don't.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2020-01-16 at 10:18 AM.

  13. #4493
    Does anyone else keep forgetting that Amy Klobuchar is even there?
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  14. #4494
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Cause CNN is a corporate entity and thus a) naturally hostile to progressive candidates/causes that aren't in the interests of rich liberals and b) in possession of the profit motive to keep people hooked on a constantly changing 24 hour narrative.

    I know y'all like to claim CNN and all the other mainstream news sources have a left wing bias but that is distinctly not the case. There is no left or right wing mainstream media in the US, there's only corporate grift.
    Yeah, it was obvious CNN took the liberal side(Warren) in this whole spat.
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  15. #4495
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    You mean after he said a woman would be a bad idea for President. And then started attacking all over the place. Was that what you meant?

    Bernie is a post-heart attack GOP wet dream of a Democratic nominee. Biden is straight and narrow, right up the middle. With Abrams he'd be all bust unstoppable (can you imagine the GOP having to spend money in GA for the Presidential election?). Warren and a good running mate would be terrific.

    Bernie looks crazy every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Elections are about looks whether we want them to be or not. Obviously more than that, but it's a factor.

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    We need an entirely revamped system. Modeling Canada's election process and moneys would be a good start. Mail-in ballots. National voting holiday. All things the GOP will never allow.
    Where's the evidence for him saying it beyond it being gossip?
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  16. #4496
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    You mean after he said a woman would be a bad idea for President. And then started attacking all over the place. Was that what you meant?
    No suprise one of the biggest conservative/pro-war dems on this board would believe such blatant lies[hint, its becease the lies benefit his views].


    Bernie in the '80s vs Warren in the '90s.

    Gee, I wonder who to trust more.

    Bernie is a post-heart attack GOP wet dream of a Democratic nominee.
    They are running Trump.
    Last edited by CommunismWillWin; 2020-01-16 at 12:30 PM.
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  17. #4497
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post

    Why the fuck would a guy who endorsed Hillary say that?

    Bernie's been fighting for feminism for decades.
    If you followed 2016, you remember Bernie's reluctance to drop out and endorse Hillary after losing handily to her in the primaries. He let that all fester straight to the convention and weakened her out the gate. Even after he endorsed her, he refused to talk about her personally, and only went on the campaign trail to talk about his ideas.

    I mean, Bernie's not a misogynist, but this isn't the point you want to make to back it up.

  18. #4498
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If you followed 2016, you remember Bernie's reluctance to drop out and endorse Hillary after losing handily to her in the primaries. He let that all fester straight to the convention and weakened her out the gate. Even after he endorsed her, he refused to talk about her personally, and only went on the campaign trail to talk about his ideas.

    I mean, Bernie's not a misogynist, but this isn't the point you want to make to back it up.
    What does that have to do with femenism? Thats a huge reach.
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  19. #4499
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade Wolf View Post
    Where's the evidence for him saying it beyond it being gossip?
    The article was sourced, independently, FOUR TIMES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    What does that have to do with femenism? Thats a huge reach.
    Because the poster implied him endorsing Hillary was proof of his feminism?

  20. #4500
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Does anyone else keep forgetting that Amy Klobuchar is even there?
    I have mentioned her in this thread before. As a excellent candidate for VP for Biden. He would be smart to pick her.
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