1. #4601
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Pfffthahaha.

    Nah, the problem is the entire concept of "comprehensive journalism" as it applies to the 24 hour news cycle and the constant narrativization of events. Mainstream corporate news media in the US is just plain old terrible.
    Cryin about the commentators of the game is something the other side does. It should be beneath us.

    Like really... what the fuck is this. Not you per se, but there is a particular irony that Trump gets impeached - three cheers for that - and a whole mess of Anti-Trump people show themselves to be far less removed from the Trumphadi cult than they played at being. They're the same damn thing, just blue rather than red. You are better than this base whiny shit.

    Really looking forward to counting how many folks spent the past 3 years saying Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and they'd do anything to stop him, rationalize why they're going to sit out the 2020 election once Bernie and Warren split the progressive vote and Biden sails to a relatively easy win on Super Tuesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Interesting times ahead as the world starts rejecting liberalism.
    You better hope not because while challenging the US-led liberal world order "only" means a Cold War - and we're having one of those with China.... ending it on the other hand means a bonafied World War.

    And I don't say that lightly.

    The actualized end of the liberal international order means mass slaughter on a scale that will make every whine about all the wonderful things the US has done since 1945 look positively quaint by comparison. Countries/regimes return to their pre-1945 rationale for being, which was territorial expansion and enrichment through conquest and essentially mercantilist economics.

    I'll say it once, and I'll say it again: modern Europeans aren't the first generation of people there thinking that large scale conflict on the continent is unimaginable. It was wrong then and it's wrong now, and it doesn't take much of a Cassandra to see why. And that's just Europe. There are seven other continents where that change would be felt too.

    The end of the LIO would mean a return to the law of the jungle which ruled international politics, with some modest guardrails at most, for millennia. Don't think for a moment modern people are past that. We certainly aren't.
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  2. #4602
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Sounds like someone doesn't know how neoliberalism actually came about.

    Hint: Most mainstream economic positions in the US since the Reagan Revolution have not been Keynesian because even the neoliberals to some degree buy into supply side crap.
    Just fuckin say what you're trying to say. Or better yet, just directly quote the Wikipedia article you're inevitably going to google. Makes discussion a lot easier for me, rather than guessing what you thought you read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    Yeah??? Trading with other countries, tribes or whatever has been a thing since like forever. Closing trade with other countries is literally stupid not even socialists dislike trade.
    derp

    Which is it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Cryin about the commentators of the game is something the other side does. It should be beneath us.

    Like really... what the fuck is this. Not you per se, but there is a particular irony that Trump gets impeached - three cheers for that - and a whole mess of Anti-Trump people show themselves to be far less removed from the Trumphadi cult than they played at being. They're the same damn thing, just blue rather than red. You are better than this base whiny shit.

    Really looking forward to counting how many folks spent the past 3 years saying Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and they'd do anything to stop him, rationalize why they're going to sit out the 2020 election once Bernie and Warren split the progressive vote and Biden sails to a relatively easy win on Super Tuesday.
    Plus-fucking-one.

    AOC is literally the Democrat's version of Trump. That is to say, better than Trump. But still a blue Trump. Of course Bernie Bros won't ever acknowledge their brand of nationalism. They are awoke! They see the inning and the score! A true shell game!

  3. #4603
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Cryin about the commentators of the game is something the other side does. It should be beneath us.

    Like really... what the fuck is this. Not you per se, but there is a particular irony that Trump gets impeached - three cheers for that - and a whole mess of Anti-Trump people show themselves to be far less removed from the Trumphadi cult than they played at being. They're the same damn thing, just blue rather than red. You are better than this base whiny shit.

    Really looking forward to counting how many folks spent the past 3 years saying Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and they'd do anything to stop him, rationalize why they're going to sit out the 2020 election once Bernie and Warren split the progressive vote and Biden sails to a relatively easy win on Super Tuesday.
    Do you really not see the difference between being critical of corporate news organizations for the social and political impacts of their practices and complaining about corporate news organizations as being mouthpieces for a liberal conspiracy?

    A lot, and I mean a lot of the criticisms of the impact of social media on politics and society in general has overlap with the media environment that has existed since the modern news cycle was established, but we naturally don't criticise the latter because it has been the norm for a lot of (primarily white) Americans for the past few generations. The fact of the matter is that a for-profit media entity has exactly one ultimate motive, and it isn't faithfully reporting current events.

    Add to that a healthy mix of the demographic disconnect between the folks running outlets like CNN, Bloomberg, CBS, etc. - primarily wealthy, educated, and again mainly white - versus an increasingly diverse audience that is increasingly hostile to wealthy interests due to their deteriorating situation and the distrust is hardly inexplicable.

    Again, how quickly people forget that CNN and the rest were facile in getting Trump elected.
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  4. #4604
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    So is this going to be the excuse? "Bernie lost cuz CNN had an agenda".

    CNN can be sensationalist (looking at you Wolf Blitzer), but they are also one of the best and more comprehensive journalism there is.

    I'll put this plainly. If Bernie-fucking-Sanders can't take CNN treating him "fairly" (in the eyes of his supporters), how the hell could he be considered a credible candidate to negotiate with Putin, or Xi Jinping, or Iran?

    Don't baby this fucking candidates. Put them through the meat grinder. If they can't take it, fuck 'em.

    But then again, the Bernie Bro team is a Trumphadi-style cult, so they'll never, ever do that.
    Huh??? Where did you get THIS interpretation???

    The point was: CNN asked loaded questions against Sanders. Sanders handled it well and turned it to his advantage. This is how candidates need to play the game. I thought I was pretty clear about that, but apparently not

    Warren played the game poorly. CNN worked on her behalf, and both CNN and Warren lost. How do we know? Sanders surged into the lead, and Warren lags quite a bit behind in third place.

    I may be celebrating the fact that CNN is taking a reputation hit a bit much, but please cut me some slack. There is so little to cheer about these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    So is this going to be the excuse? "Bernie lost cuz CNN had an agenda".

    CNN can be sensationalist (looking at you Wolf Blitzer), but they are also one of the best and more comprehensive journalism there is.

    I'll put this plainly. If Bernie-fucking-Sanders can't take CNN treating him "fairly" (in the eyes of his supporters), how the hell could he be considered a credible candidate to negotiate with Putin, or Xi Jinping, or Iran?

    Don't baby this fucking candidates. Put them through the meat grinder. If they can't take it, fuck 'em.

    But then again, the Bernie Bro team is a Trumphadi-style cult, so they'll never, ever do that.
    No, you got it backwards. The statement should be:

    So is this going to be the excuse? "Bernie surged into the nationwide lead cuz CNN had an agenda".

    This also is not quite right either as the Warren missteps helped Bernie as well. But the CNN agenda helped Bernie quite a lot!

  5. #4605
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Really looking forward to counting how many folks spent the past 3 years saying Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and they'd do anything to stop him, rationalize why they're going to sit out the 2020 election once Bernie and Warren split the progressive vote and Biden sails to a relatively easy win on Super Tuesday.
    Like you, I'd vote for an Avocado, so if Biden gets it I'll gladly hold my nose and vote, just as I did with Hillary... but I keep telling you that either Warren or Bernie (sadly, most likely Warren at this point) is going to drop out at a key moment and endorse the other if they do. They're very close friends (Despite the poor attempt by the internet trolls and CNN to drive a wedge between them) and those two are not going to be on the same ticket together, and they damn well know that they would totally eat each other's votes. Not everybody is a blind-as-a-bat selfish pride-filled douchebag. :P

  6. #4606
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    I mean...she is?
    With her history of working to regulate Wall Street? That's anathema to neoliberals.

  7. #4607
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post

    Plus-fucking-one.

    AOC is literally the Democrat's version of Trump. That is to say, better than Trump. But still a blue Trump.
    ...Dumbass Dump is literally the physical embodiment of all the 7 deadly sins. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride. All of these things perfectly describe and apply to Dumbass Dump. None of those things, however, apply to AOC. Zero. Zilch... She doesn't stir up any hatred (unless you believe FOX news), she doesn't admonish anybody of color or gender, she doesn't lie 24-7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Some Worthless Turnip
    And here's my hot take on CNN's debate style: They thought they were making a power call by being pro-woman #BelieveWomen in their slanted questioning and performance, and it had nothing at all to do with corporate Democratic interests.
    Given the source behind this quote, to me this is confirmation that Russia was the source given to CNN to start dividing Warren/Sanders supporters.

  8. #4608
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Really looking forward to counting how many folks spent the past 3 years saying Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and they'd do anything to stop him, rationalize why they're going to sit out the 2020 election once Bernie and Warren split the progressive vote and Biden sails to a relatively easy win on Super Tuesday.
    It's not clear that both Bernie and Warren will both be running at that time, and it's not clear that it won't be Bloomsberg running the tables if they both were in. A variation of that would be Bloomsberg and Biden splitting the centrist vote and Bernie or Warren cleaning up by taking all the progressive vote. A lot will happen between now and Super Tuesday, and it is not at all clear how this will play out.

  9. #4609
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    In my crystal ball I see...

    Biden winning the nomination. The ideological purist leftists will get angry. Trump and co. will come up with some crazy conspiracy about how Biden "cheated" Bernie and/or Warren out of the nomination. The ideological purists will eat it up like a starving kid jumping on a big ole hunk of bread.

    Bernie and Warren both have their own flaws, and they are both great in their own regards. "But Biden is creepy!" isn't really any kind of coherent argument. As long as he's not walking in on the changing rooms of young teenage girls or grabbing people's genitalia because people "let him" I don't really care about how close he hovers near people when he's having whispered conversations.

    We all want Trump out. Get over the ideological purity test that it must be Bernie or Sanders. I like them both more than Biden, but their lack of appeal in key swing states is easy to see.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  10. #4610
    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    ...Dumbass Dump is literally the physical embodiment of all the 7 deadly sins. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.
    Sounds like an interesting character in Crusader Kings, but I wouldn't want him leading my country. I had trouble enough that one time when the demon child was born into my dynasty.

  11. #4611
    I am Murloc! Slacker76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    Like you, I'd vote for an Avocado, so if Biden gets it I'll gladly hold my nose and vote, just as I did with Hillary... but I keep telling you that either Warren or Bernie (sadly, most likely Warren at this point) is going to drop out at a key moment and endorse the other if they do. They're very close friends (Despite the poor attempt by the internet trolls and CNN to drive a wedge between them) and those two are not going to be on the same ticket together, and they damn well know that they would totally eat each other's votes. Not everybody is a blind-as-a-bat selfish pride-filled douchebag. :P
    Did Bernie did tell his senior campaign staff that Liz is a dear friend? They spent the week on twitter basically calling Liz a backstabbing bitch.

    Again your following the fallacy that Bernie is entitled to all Dem votes. Just like they felt they were entitled to Warrens support in 2016. Help me remember, but again I think his staff called liz a backstabbing bitch after she endorsed Hillary in June of 2016 (waay after Bernie was mathematically eliminated).

    Between Biden and Bernie, will largely depend on which is stronger after March. Liz is smart and strategic enough to hold an endorsement until then. Or when she can get the most consencessions for her endorsement.

  12. #4612
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Did Bernie did tell his senior campaign staff that Liz is a dear friend? They spent the week on twitter basically calling Liz a backstabbing bitch.
    1) no they didn't, stop lying

    2) It's high time I threw your ass on Ignore. Goodbye, T-Word.

  13. #4613
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The United States is world police because most of the world does not have its act together nearly as much as they think they do.
    This implies that The US has its act together. I'll give you the fact that we probably do compared to some countries or some governing aspects compared to some countries, but let's kill American exceptionalism and throw it in the trash where it belongs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Huh??? Where did you get THIS interpretation???

    The point was: CNN asked loaded questions against Sanders. Sanders handled it well and turned it to his advantage. This is how candidates need to play the game. I thought I was pretty clear about that, but apparently not

    Warren played the game poorly. CNN worked on her behalf, and both CNN and Warren lost. How do we know? Sanders surged into the lead, and Warren lags quite a bit behind in third place.
    To answer your first question: Skroe's gone all aboard the Bernie hate train and is just spinning shit at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    We all want Trump out. Get over the ideological purity test that it must be Bernie or Sanders. I like them both more than Biden, but their lack of appeal in key swing states is easy to see.
    So it's a "purity test" to want someone that will actually try to improve things?

    The time to swallow your pride and cast your vote for Biden is if he actually wins the nomination and goes up against Trump. Until then, this whole notion that everyone needs to just suck it up and prop up crappy candidate number 24,361 is bullshit. It's a great way to make sure nothing actually gets fixed in the US, and people that think this way probably are (or think they are) immune to the various socioeconomic realities in the US.

  14. #4614
    I am Murloc! Slacker76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    1) no they didn't, stop lying

    2) It's high time I threw your ass on Ignore. Goodbye, T-Word.
    Calling me a tranny? Gee thanks, I dont mind. But thats really in character for your BernieBro/TERF alliance.


    I Bernie guys are bad at history. But typically your Red Brown alliance ... dont end well.

  15. #4615
    The Unstoppable Force CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Calling me a tranny? Gee thanks, I dont mind. But thats really in character for your BernieBro/TERF alliance.


    I Bernie guys are bad at history. But typically your Red Brown alliance ... dont end well.
    Man, imagine thinking TERFs are accepted within communities on Bernie's side. Who is teaching you how to bullshit? You suck at it.
    Conservatism and its off-shoots are the most rotten idealogies to ever exist in human history.
    Liberalism = right-wing.
    Anarcho-communism =/ Stalinism.

  16. #4616
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    1) no they didn't, stop lying

    2) It's high time I threw your ass on Ignore. Goodbye, T-Word.
    I've seen some childish shit on this forum in my day, but holy fuck does this take the cake.
    “Populists (and 'national socialists') look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world 'behind the scenes'. Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.”
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  17. #4617
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    I've seen some childish shit on this forum in my day, but holy fuck does this take the cake.
    I have to say "T-Word", because you get infracted if you use the actual word. It's not by choice. =/

  18. #4618
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    I have to say "T-Word", because you get infracted if you use the actual word. It's not by choice. =/
    One would think that being infracted for using a specific slur would be a hint that one shouldn't do it. Like I said: childish shit.
    “Populists (and 'national socialists') look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world 'behind the scenes'. Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.”
    - Christopher Hitchens

  19. #4619
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    One would think that being infracted for using a specific slur would be a hint that one shouldn't do it. Like I said: childish shit.
    It's not so much a slur as it is an accusation that someone is not participating in the discussion in good faith. It's one of those annoying situations where doing it is infractable, but calling someone out for doing it is ALSO infractable.

  20. #4620
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    One would think that being infracted for using a specific slur would be a hint that one shouldn't do it. Like I said: childish shit.
    Troll's not really a slur. Is it? Maybe I've been on the internet too long.

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