Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Benggaul]

Yeah its called compromise my dude.

You compromise on things and you get things done. If the leftists rather 2.1 million americans don't have paid parental leave thats your call my dude.

Goes to show that they'd rather have everyone be poor.

"We drew up this bill that will allow you 10 free ice creams every year so long as we get to fatally stab a family member! What do you mean you won't sign? What about COMPROMISE!"

Fuck's sake. That is literally one of the oldest tricks in the GOP playbook.

[Blur4stuff]

I supported Sanders against Clinton. Right now he's also my #1 pick. I've met and talked to plenty of people that either support or like him. Neither then, now, or at any point between have I even met a 'bernie bro'. This is another one of those things being completely blown out of proportion to fit someone's political narrative. Twitter trolling doesn't mean Sanders has a lot of bad supporters.

Clinton supporters and maybe now Warren/others are just looking for someone to blame other than themselves.

[Benggaul]

I supported Sanders against Clinton. Right now he's also my #1 pick. I've met and talked to plenty of people that either support or like him. Neither then, now, or at any point between have I even met a 'bernie bro'. This is another one of those things being completely blown out of proportion to fit someone's political narrative. Twitter trolling doesn't mean Sanders has a lot of bad supporters.

Clinton supporters and maybe now Warren/others are just looking for someone to blame other than themselves.

"I haven't met them, therefore they don't exist."

Glad your life's been charmed. Mine hasn't. My last trip to the States I was literally shoved by a "Bernie or Bust" dude because I said I think Warren is a better candidate. His girlfriend came to the "rescue" and told him I wasn't worth it, so...great? They may be more vocal online, but that doesn't mean they don't have a presence off, and that confrontational bullshit is part of the reason some people have soured on Bernie. Not generally because of Bernie himself (I was a Bernie supporter in 2016 until he conceded; then I voted Clinton because, well, Trump), but because that subsection of his supporters--while certainly the minority--are pretty damned vocal and vicious. This idea that if we don't choose Sanders we're all doomed and are bad and should feel bad isn't endearing him to anyone who isn't already a supporter.

[Elegiac]

"I haven't met them, therefore they don't exist."

Glad your life's been charmed. Mine hasn't. My last trip to the States I was literally shoved by a "Bernie or Bust" dude because I said I think Warren is a better candidate. His girlfriend came to the "rescue" and told him I wasn't worth it, so...great? They may be more vocal online, but that doesn't mean they don't have a presence off, and that confrontational bullshit is part of the reason some people have soured on Bernie. Not generally because of Bernie himself (I was a Bernie supporter in 2016 until he conceded; then I voted Clinton because, well, Trump), but because that subsection of his supporters--while certainly the minority--are pretty damned vocal and vicious. This idea that if we don't choose Sanders we're all doomed and are bad and should feel bad isn't endearing him to anyone who isn't already a supporter.

To add to that, I've also recounted my prior experience with Bernie Bros whilst in the WA political circuit.

If Warren supporters get it this badly I can't imagine what people that support other candidates experience.

[kaelleria]

Well the numbers released by the Buttigieg campaign look like he's going to end up winning on SDEs and win or come close to winning the second alignment popular vote. These are the most complete set of numbers I've seen with 77% of precincts caucus sheets tallied.

Unfortunately no numbers have been actually released by the Iowa Democratic party so Pete's going to get screwed out of the bounce head normally get.

The other story of the night is Biden's collapse. It will be very interesting to see what happens when he collapses in NH as well. He's been given a life line, but I don't think it's going to last much longer.

[Milchshake]

To add to that, I've also recounted my prior experience with Bernie Bros whilst in the WA political circuit.

If Warren supporters get it this badly I can't imagine what people that support other candidates experience.

They are very real. I have a few in the seminar I teach. It's not that big of a deal. They're they same guys I taught in 2004, 2008, 2012. Back then they pushed Ron Paul. After Paul retired they seemed to split between Bernie and Trump.

In terms of attracting young political foot soldiers, antiestablishmentarianism is the lowest of the low-hanging fruit. Young people assessing the civic landscape for the first time have no claim nor investment in an authority structure which predates them.

As history shows, human nature to want it overthrown and replaced with a system of one’s own. The apparent difficulty of such a prospect often dissuades young people from becoming politically active — until, that is, an eloquent messenger comes along and promises them the revolution they desire.

Goldwater understood this, as did his many heirs, from Eugene McCarthy to Ralph Nader to Ron Paul. The candidates may be different, the extent of the moments may vary, and the ideologies may be antithetical — but the story is always the same, as described by another professor I know:

For nearly fifty years, middle-class white college ideologues have latched onto this candidate or that, firmly believing that their political awakening has miraculously coincided with discoveries of Great Truths that escape the Brainwashed Morons that make up the electorate, and that this Great Man is going to be the one to take the country to the promised land.

[Elegiac]

They are very real. I have a few in the seminar I teach. It's not that big of a deal. They're they same guys I taught in 2004, 2008, 2012. Back then they pushed Ron Paul. After Paul retired they seemed to split between Bernie and Trump.

In terms of attracting young political foot soldiers, antiestablishmentarianism is the lowest of the low-hanging fruit. Young people assessing the civic landscape for the first time have no claim nor investment in an authority structure which predates them.

As history shows, human nature to want it overthrown and replaced with a system of one’s own. The apparent difficulty of such a prospect often dissuades young people from becoming politically active — until, that is, an eloquent messenger comes along and promises them the revolution they desire.

Goldwater understood this, as did his many heirs, from Eugene McCarthy to Ralph Nader to Ron Paul. The candidates may be different, the extent of the moments may vary, and the ideologies may be antithetical — but the story is always the same, as described by another professor I know:

For nearly fifty years, middle-class white college ideologues have latched onto this candidate or that, firmly believing that their political awakening has miraculously coincided with discoveries of Great Truths that escape the Brainwashed Morons that make up the electorate, and that this Great Man is going to be the one to take the country to the promised land.

Like I said: the grift is real.

And I'm not entirely convinced that Bernie's camp hasn't been infiltrated by grifters.

[Milchshake]

Like I said: the grift is real.

And I'm not entirely convinced that Bernie's camp hasn't been infiltrated by grifters.

It's real. His dark money group is basically a slush fund for his family and higher level grifters. It's a dumber version of Hunter Biden,
Bernie like Trump, places way to much emphasis on personal loyalty to him. Accountability is a low priority.

The vetting of Bernie is about to get real.

[beanman12345]

Well the numbers released by the Buttigieg campaign look like he's going to end up winning on SDEs and win or come close to winning the second alignment popular vote. These are the most complete set of numbers I've seen with 77% of precincts caucus sheets tallied.

Unfortunately no numbers have been actually released by the Iowa Democratic party so Pete's going to get screwed out of the bounce head normally get.

The other story of the night is Biden's collapse. It will be very interesting to see what happens when he collapses in NH as well. He's been given a life line, but I don't think it's going to last much longer.

From what it seems the number 1 issue on their choice of who to vote tonight for was electability, and they didn't go for Biden, which was his entire selling point, people just aren't buying it.

[Wyrt]

From what it seems the number 1 issue on their choice of who to vote tonight for was electability, and they didn't go for Biden, which was his entire selling point, people just aren't buying it.

Because he's not. It was just the bullshit the media was pushing.

He's an old conservative with a history a bad legislative decisions, constant gaffs, and questionable touching of women/children. He might be electable as a Republican, but not a Democrat.

[mvaliz]

Doesn't seem like a lot here, but the poll speaks volumes about the difference in mind set.

What poll are we talking about here?

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AOC isn't a brocialist.

...ummmmm wah!? o_O

OMG, did you just claim that AOC isn't a major supporter of Bernie Sanders? Dude, she's like one of THE main Bernie Supporters! She's also part of the justice democrats, who were all under what you would call "Bernie Bros".

She's practically THE definition of a "Bernie Bro" right up to the whole "Lets take the Dem party back from the Centrists/elite".

Also, I'm assuming you mean "Brocalist" as a "Bernie Bro Socialist"??? Dude, she was literally one of the first to endorse Bernie Sanders.

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To add to that, I've also recounted my prior experience with Bernie Bros whilst in the WA political circuit.

Are you talking about 2016 again?

[Elegiac]

...ummmmm wah!? o_O

OMG, did you just claim that AOC isn't a major supporter of Bernie Sanders?

No.

I said she wasn't a brocialist. You do realist that Bernie Sanders does not have the monopoly on that cancerous ideology, yes?

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Are you talking about 2016 again?

Newp. As I said, other Warren volunteers have shared similar horror stories with me about this year.

Seriously. Stop trying to gaslight because you can't seem to get that some of Bernie's supporters are shitty people.

[mvaliz]

No.

I said she wasn't a brocialist. You do realist that Bernie Sanders does not have the monopoly on that cancerous ideology, yes?

What are you even talking about now? What "Cancerous ideology"? WTF is a "Brocalist"? Do you even know, or are you so consumed by hatred that you're just making stuff up to fit your views now? o_O

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Seriously. Stop trying to gaslight because you can't seem to get that some of Bernie's supporters are shitty people.

Again, the only shitty person here has been you. And you're an example of somebody who's just as shitty on the opposing side - projections a bitch, innit?

So, what's your point, shitty person? What the hell happened to you to make you so damn divisive?

[Elegiac]

What are you even talking about now? What "Cancerous ideology"? WTF is a "Brocalist"? Do you even know, or are you so consumed by hatred that you're just making stuff up to fit your views now? o_O

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brocialism

Basically white populism for leftists.

[mvaliz]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brocialism

Basically white populism for leftists.

Oh fuck me... now you're declaring Bernie Sanders supporters as being fucking RACIST/White Supremacists/Incels!?! are you MAD!?

I'm so SOOOO done with your lying ass! It's pretty damn clear you've got something personal happened to you that you're not sharing with the rest of us to let off such an immense level of lying and slander. I thought you could be reasoned with, but good christ when you're declaring Bernie Sanders supporters as being... ugh... >_<

Welcome to the ignore list, Gaslighter!

[Elegiac]

Oh fuck me... now you're declaring Bernie Sanders supporters as being fucking RACIST/White Supremacists/Incels!?! are you MAD!?

Why is it my problem that you can't understand that brocialists and Bernie supporters are two different groups that intersect? Not every Bernie supporter is a brocialist, but most brocialists are Bernie supporters.

Also, gaslighter? Are you just repeating words without knowing what they mean, now?

I'd say this is novel but I've witnessed equally as unhinged behavior for the last two electoral cycles so...C'est la vie.

[kaelleria]

Ffs Berners are already trying to spread a conspiracy theory about the app...

The same company that makes the app makes a text banking app that a bunch of campaigns have used.

[Elegiac]

Ffs Berners are already trying to spread a conspiracy theory about the app...

The same company that makes the app makes a text banking app that a bunch of campaigns have used.

Conspiracy theories aside, it further illustrates the prior point about optics. Even if the results are actually valid, the sheer amount of circumstantial fuckery surrounding the Iowa caucus at a time when election security is under heavy scrutiny is not a good look for the Democrats - or Pete, especially, given that he's already got a lot of baggage surrounding his prior McKinsey work and current cozying up to dark money (absolutely something we do not want to take into the general election).

But you also bring up another good point; the focus on potential malfeasance with the app deflects attention from the fact that caucuses are an extremely antiquated method of vote counting - and one that is known to benefit Sanders far more than any other Democratic candidate, which is why his supporters have been so resistant to moving away from state caucuses. Similarly, the complaining about Tom Perez and the DNC is also clearly designed to absolve the IDP's responsibility in this debacle - again, because Bernie has a lot of supporters there and that raises questions about the competence of his camp.

It seems like any move towards responsible democracy is going to face opposition from both extremes of the spectrum, strangely enough. They'd apparently prefer a broken political system they can take advantage of.

[Milchshake]

Why is it my problem that you can't understand that brocialists and Bernie supporters are two different groups that intersect? Not every Bernie supporter is a brocialist, but most brocialists are Bernie supporters.

Also, gaslighter? Are you just repeating words without knowing what they mean, now?

I'd say this is novel but I've witnessed equally as unhinged behavior for the last two electoral cycles so...C'est la vie.

Uh oh, you criticized Bernie.

Going to have to hand in your lefty card... They will also brand you with the T-word. Most bro thing ever, they got the wrong lessons from the Scarlet Letter.

But we have snark and some nice sangria.

[Elegiac]

Uh oh, you criticized Bernie.

Going to have to hand in your lefty card... They will also brand you with the T-word. Most bro thing ever, they got the wrong lessons from the Scarlet Letter.

But we have snark and some nice sangria.

I'm not gonna have my credentials questioned by a bunch of xenoi that don't remotely know what an actual militant left wing movement looks like, don't you worry.