1. #9761
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    You realize "The party should just step in line and not compromise" is how Trump and authoritarians in general work?
    You realize that blindly compromising without actual good reasons is why the swamp exists as it does today?

  2. #9762
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    He certainly isn't clean, I'll give you that. People keep mentioning law breaking - do we have Bloomberg actually breaking the law, or just supposed based on....?
    Unless you include sexual harassment, I assume no, he hasn't broken the law. I doubt he's dumb enough to pursue criminal activity to make his money.

    But generally speaking, you seem to be understating how complete shit he is. I guess his saving grace is "well he hasn't committed white collar crimes so... victory!"

    And this doesn't even cover how eviscerated he's gotten by Warren. Trump would eat him alive.

    We damn well need to have a better option to put up against Trump or we're in a hell of a lot of trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    This is the main reason why Bernie winning would be a bad idea. Even if you agree with his ideals, he wouldn't be able to get anything done. He's been rather unsuccesful as a politician in getting anything done due to his inability to compromise.
    There is no evidence to assume a McConnell run Senate would allow ANY Democrat that wins the election to get things done. Assuming that this is something that only Bernie would face is just inaccurate.

  3. #9763
    Quote Originally Posted by omerome View Post
    Here is what confuses me. We hear how much we need change in issues like healthcare from people like Pete and Amy, but at the same time, they claim that many people don't want any changes to their healthcare. Well, how can you want change, when you don't want to change?

    You can't move forward when you are hesitant to...move forward.
    Yep, they claim to know all these people that like their coverage and their doctors, but they would probably like it better if they paid less overall and kept their doctors because they wouldn't have to worry about if their plan covered the doctor or surgeon if they have to have surgery, because Medicare for all would cover it all.

  4. #9764
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    We damn well need to have a better option to put up against Trump or we're in a hell of a lot of trouble.
    Nothing would demonstrate the corporate takeover of American politics and daily life like a Presidential election between two of the richest, petty authoritarians in the world. That it's a fucking possibility is embarrassing for U.S. democracy.
    I don't know what word in the language—I can’t find one—that applies to people of that kind, who are willing to sacrifice the literal—the existence of organized human life, not in the distant future, so they can put a few more dollars in highly overstuffed pockets. The word “evil” doesn’t begin to approach it.
    - Noam Chomsky

  5. #9765
    Democrats that support Bloomberg.....

    Are you doing this because you believe he's the best choice (of the current major candidates) to run the country or the best choice to beat Trump?
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  6. #9766
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Democrats that support Bloomberg.....

    Are you doing this because you believe he's the best choice (of the current major candidates) to run the country or the best choice to beat Trump?
    I keep hearing "lesser of two evils" and "smarter version of Trump" as if either of those two lines are good.

    Bloomberg still has a long lasting history of racist and sexist ideals but for some reason people think that simply replacing the R to a D next to his name magically changes everything for the better whole simultaneously contributing to Republicans in office.

  7. #9767
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    And stuff like that is why Bernie won't get anything done if he becomes POTUS. You need to work with people and compromise, horse trade, and other things, to get politics done. Give and take.
    There is reason FDR had Southern Democrats and Republicans at various times in his cabinet. He needed buyins. Which is also why share croppers weren't included in the new deals agriculture parts.
    Compromise to get something through congress.
    Most small government progressives at the time weren't fond of his large government progressive programs.
    Any comments talking about "compromise" are just delusional at this point, like Stockholm syndrome-level delusional. What the fuck makes anybody think that it's even possible to compromise with Republicans? Or that "compromising" is the sole, uni-directional responsibility of Democrats, which really just means rubber stamping shitty Republican policies? This is why I keep saying we need to take back the Senate. Sara Gideon actually has a narrow lead over Susan Collins. Amy McGrath is polling within the margin of error against McConnell. We need the Senate. But talking about compromise with this iteration of Republicans is beyond naive.

  8. #9768
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omerome View Post
    Here is what confuses me. We hear how much we need change in issues like healthcare from people like Pete and Amy, but at the same time, they claim that many people don't want any changes to their healthcare. Well, how can you want change, when you don't want to change?

    You can't move forward when you are hesitant to...move forward.
    The lobbyists that bought out Pete doesn't want change, but all the Democrat runners know that Medicare for All is popular. Wouldn't be impossible to see Pete claim he supports Medicare for All but then washes his hands on the issue if the senate and house doesn't pass his bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    You realize that blindly compromising without actual good reasons is why the swamp exists as it does today?
    You hear this a lot from the other candidates in that we need to compromise to get anything done. This is a Democracy where you vote in what you want. If the House and Senate don't play along then that swamp needs to be drained as well. The Republicans who voted against impeaching Trump need to be removed just for interfering with Democracy. We'll start with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Democrats that support Bloomberg.....

    Are you doing this because you believe he's the best choice (of the current major candidates) to run the country or the best choice to beat Trump?
    They're doing it because Bloomberg has a great dental plan, and the 401K is to retire for.

  9. #9769
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Work with people and compromise.

    Interesting. THATS HOW WE GOT WHERE WE ARE.

    The constant capitulating to a NON GIVE A FUCK side is why we are where we are.
    Yeah, and just what we consider a compromise is getting more ridiculous.

    One side says "I want to feed all the puppies."

    The other says "I want to murder all the puppies."

    It is not a compromise to say we'll feed all the puppies before we murder them. But that's what Republicans and "moderate" democrats keep insisting we have to do.

  10. #9770
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    Yeah, and just what we consider a compromise is getting more ridiculous.

    One side says "I want to feed all the puppies."

    The other says "I want to murder all the puppies."

    It is not a compromise to say we'll feed all the puppies before we murder them. But that's what Republicans and "moderate" democrats keep insisting we have to do.
    Because if it doesnt at least get back to that point absolutely nothing will get done. If the two sides continue to remain this far apart while trying to pull even further we may as well split the country now in two. Sadly it looks like this is where we are headed and the only way to salvage this situation. The problem is the country is currently split in thirds. I would much rather see the country mutually split up and see somethings get accomplished than continue down this road.

  11. #9771
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Because if it doesnt at least get back to that point absolutely nothing will get done. If the two sides continue to remain this far apart while trying to pull even further we may as well split the country now in two. Sadly it looks like this is where we are headed and the only way to salvage this situation. The problem is the country is currently split in thirds. I would much rather see the country mutually split up and see somethings get accomplished than continue down this road.
    I don’t think a split would work for republicans. Their states are too poor so they’d hang on for life to that sweet blue money.

    Democrats don’t need to compromise they need to stop compromising. Democrats talking about compromising and working with Mitch for instance. The guy who blocked Obama as his goal and made sure to steal a lifetime scotus seat is who you think will compromise?

    One side is mental. They want me not allowed to marry no abortions for women want me discriminated against for existing and what is a compromise to that?

  12. #9772
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Because if it doesnt at least get back to that point absolutely nothing will get done.
    But that is not what happening though all the safeguards that the system had to force bipartisanship are just eroding to adjust to the new reality. As a theory it is a shame but we crossed the Rubicon long ago.

  13. #9773
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I don’t think a split would work for republicans. Their states are too poor so they’d hang on for life to that sweet blue money.

    Democrats don’t need to compromise they need to stop compromising. Democrats talking about compromising and working with Mitch for instance. The guy who blocked Obama as his goal and made sure to steal a lifetime scotus seat is who you think will compromise?!
    McConnell's refusal to bring the democrat bills up in the senate is a perfect example of his refusal to compromise.

    Nothing democrats pass in the House has to be the final version of the bill. McConnell could take up any of them and write a completely different version in the Senate, then they compromise and find something in the middle when they bring the two versions together.

    Instead, the Republican answer is "if it's not exactly what we want from moment one, we don't want it."

    Republicans don't want compromise. They want capitulation.

  14. #9774
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    McConnell's refusal to bring the democrat bills up in the senate is a perfect example of his refusal to compromise.

    Nothing democrats pass in the House has to be the final version of the bill. McConnell could take up any of them and write a completely different version in the Senate, then they compromise and find something in the middle when they bring the two versions together.

    Instead, the Republican answer is "if it's not exactly what we want from moment one, we don't want it."

    Republicans don't want compromise. They want capitulation.
    Yet “moderate” democrats feel we are doomed without republicans. Like dude the republicans played your ass and they’re laughing all the way to court appointments.

  15. #9775
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I don’t think a split would work for republicans. Their states are too poor so they’d hang on for life to that sweet blue money.

    Democrats don’t need to compromise they need to stop compromising. Democrats talking about compromising and working with Mitch for instance. The guy who blocked Obama as his goal and made sure to steal a lifetime scotus seat is who you think will compromise?

    One side is mental. They want me not allowed to marry no abortions for women want me discriminated against for existing and what is a compromise to that?
    And democrats want me to accept that if i do well for myself i ned to pay for the people who dont or in many cases refuse to help themselves. They want to control what firearms im allowed to have without knowing what an assault rifle even is. They want me to turn my back on my moral beliefs because they say that i am wrong. They completely screwed me with the ACA. Which one sounds authoritarian now.

  16. #9776
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    Yeah, and just what we consider a compromise is getting more ridiculous.

    One side says "I want to feed all the puppies."

    The other says "I want to murder all the puppies."

    It is not a compromise to say we'll feed all the puppies before we murder them. But that's what Republicans and "moderate" democrats keep insisting we have to do.
    You made me laugh

  17. #9777
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    And democrats want me to accept that if i do well for myself i ned to pay for the people who dont or in many cases refuse to help themselves. They want to control what firearms im allowed to have without knowing what an assault rifle even is. They want me to turn my back on my moral beliefs because they say that i am wrong. They completely screwed me with the ACA. Which one sounds authoritarian now.
    I mean none of that is true, but cool.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  18. #9778
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    But that is not what happening though all the safeguards that the system had to force bipartisanship are just eroding to adjust to the new reality. As a theory it is a shame but we crossed the Rubicon long ago.
    And yet Bernie supports believe throwing gasoline on the fire will just burn the otherside with no regards for how a hard swing the other way will effect the public sentiment. We need to get back to the middle and Trumps presidency only shows this even more.

  19. #9779
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    And yet Bernie supports believe throwing gasoline on the fire will just burn the otherside with no regards for how a hard swing the other way will effect the public sentiment. We need to get back to the middle and Trumps presidency only shows this even more.
    You get back to the middle by pulling the right towards the middle. The Dems have been center for decades.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  20. #9780
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    And democrats want me to accept that if i do well for myself i ned to pay for the people who dont or in many cases refuse to help themselves. They want to control what firearms im allowed to have without knowing what an assault rifle even is. They want me to turn my back on my moral beliefs because they say that i am wrong. They completely screwed me with the ACA. Which one sounds authoritarian now.
    Wait you think banning gay people from stores and stripping them of equal rights is less authoritative???

    Aca is a conservative plan. Blame your side for not embracing Medicare for all which every country does.

    And can you explain why you don’t want to pay taxes when you live and benefit from the country? I pay taxes I really don’t mind them. I’m not poor and wanting for money.

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