1. #9841
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    M4A may take a while. The path for gay marriage took around 2 decades. If we can get M4A in 1 I will be happy
    The problem is the calls for some Universal Health Care has been happening in this country since Roosevelt, and I mean Teddy.
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  2. #9842
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    who said anything about biden? he has not promised M4A.
    Here are the current protections from 538 about next weekend's primaries:

    Sanders.587
    Biden 305
    Bloomberg 211
    Warren 132
    Pete 70
    Amy 38

    The set of all realistic democratic nominees is Sanders, Biden, Bloomberg.

    Pushing hard against Sanders boosts Biden and Bloomberg. And right now Biden is rising in SC, and will be primed for a good Super Tuesday showing. He is likely to take quite a few votes away from Bloomberg between now and then as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    The problem is the calls for some Universal Health Care has been happening in this country since Roosevelt, and I mean Teddy.
    Maybe it will never happen. Not going to stop trying just because we might fail.

  3. #9843
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    In point of fact, we can get quite a lot done (not to mention prevented) with a slim majority, just like the Republicans are literally doing right now, speaking of not knowing how the process works.
    a lot done such as what? one hallmark of trump's presidency has been a lack of big achievements. the most notable being... tax cuts, which are always popular.

  4. #9844
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    a lot done such as what? one hallmark of trump's presidency has been a lack of big achievements. the most notable being... tax cuts, which are always popular.
    They're appointing conservative judges left and right, for one thing. If Trump wins, they'd be a block. If a Democrat wins, yes, they would most assuredly be able to pass major legislation.

  5. #9845
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post

    Maybe it will never happen. Not going to stop trying just because we might fail.
    Agreed, I just hope people realize that we gotta do more than elect a president that will sign it into law. We are going to have pressure both GOP, and DEM candidates. Which means we have to convince the bulk of the Washington D.C. establishment who seem to enjoy using the subject as a political football. The only way that happens is to make them think they're jobs are on the line.
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  6. #9846
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    62,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    You realize "The party should just step in line and not compromise" is how Trump and authoritarians in general work?
    Here's the thing with compromise.

    It only works if both parties are on board.

    If a compromise like the ACA is offered and does not get strong bipartisan support, then the party refusing to vote for it is the party unwilling to compromise, not the party who pushed it through. What that reaction says is that they shouldn't have even offered the compromise; they weren't going to garner their opponents' support regardless.

    Both sides need to come to the table for compromise to be an option. Without that, you're not talking compromise, you're talking subjugation to the enemy. Capitulation.

  7. #9847
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    If nothing else, this thread has taught me that politics is a cancer that infects the mind of just about everyone. People have lost their damn minds. Everyone is seemingly the enemy and people will rapidly change their positions to better match a defense they need. Sad how reading through reminds me of a general conversation with people for and against Trump.

    The fact campaign season lasts so long, just so candidates can line their pockets and provide entertainment while the country lets political fatigue further infect them is just the icing on the cake.

    It is practically a buzzword these days, but the US literally needs this fabled "unity." Get yourselves a candidate that will offend the fewest people and run with them. Get rid of the festering pustule on America's ass that is Trump, fix some shit and then move the country forward.
    These threads have disillusioned me, maybe for different reasons.

    I think there was a general idea that we all agreed on the things that made Trump a shitlord - we being the not-Trumpsters, anyway. And there often appears to be a general consensus on values, when users berate the Trump administration kicking people off food stamps, kicking people off insurance, dismantling the ACA, reducing health standards, reducing safety standards, limiting wage growth, and generally shitting on the weakest and least capable.

    But then you see the way they defend Bloomberg and the hand-waving of the things he's done. Do we actually agree on values? I think some people here would be wearing MAGA hats if Trump ran with a D next to his name.

    You see the ones who could power suns with their rage for what Trump's done to minorities or how he's cut safety nets for the poor, but suddenly when it's election time, they're screaming in rage at the same groups for not endorsing candidates who aren't pushing for much better than Trump's. They seem personally offended that these groups are pushing for a candidate that directly addresses their concerns instead of candidates that barely acknowledge them.

    These people are mostly the same folks I've learned over the last few years are lawyers, tenured employees, software engineers during the dot coms - the upper class that wouldn't be affected even if Trump went Kim Jong Un on this country. I don't think politics are about values to these people. It's just a game of football and their team needs to win. And here I was hating Trump for real reasons when I should've just been hating him for wearing red.

  8. #9848
    I am Murloc! Milchshake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Publicly Shaming a Fascist
    Posts
    5,786
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You've been shit posting in this thread for weeks, and now you play the victim? Ha ha
    Not at all. Bernie has made unrealistic claims to ideological purity and consistency.

    I'm merely showing the gaps in his own claims. With a nice dressing of snark and hyperbole.

    I'm the socialist saying the emperor has no clothes on.


    For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued. I bet this might be how Betsy Londrigan felt last night.
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
    -Lady Foppington

  9. #9849
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    15,341
    Quote Originally Posted by NotSoLazyDNC-Chair View Post
    For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued.
    "I'm not playing the victim" - followed by immediately playing the victim. We already have zenkai, find your own thing.
    /s

  10. #9850
    Merely a Setback CommunismWillWin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Russia that is very communist, da.
    Posts
    25,614
    Quote Originally Posted by NotSoLazyDNC-Chair View Post
    Not at all. Bernie has made unrealistic claims to ideological purity and consistency.

    I'm merely showing the gaps in his own claims. With a nice dressing of snark and hyperbole.

    I'm the socialist saying the emperor has no clothes on.


    For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued. I bet this might be how Betsy Londrigan felt last night.
    >Socalist
    >Supports Pelosi.

    Hah.
    Joe Biden is a rapist and his supporters are rape apologists

  11. #9851
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Here are the current protections from 538 about next weekend's primaries:

    Sanders.587
    Biden 305
    Bloomberg 211
    Warren 132
    Pete 70
    Amy 38

    The set of all realistic democratic nominees is Sanders, Biden, Bloomberg.

    Pushing hard against Sanders boosts Biden and Bloomberg. And right now Biden is rising in SC, and will be primed for a good Super Tuesday showing. He is likely to take quite a few votes away from Bloomberg between now and then as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Maybe it will never happen. Not going to stop trying just because we might fail.
    i don't think you have to worry about that, this forum is nearly a bernie circlejerk.
    he's also not the only candidate promising medicare expansion.
    that aside, if he refuses to negotiate on any kind of healthcare expansion besides M4A, as he has implied, that seems really counterproductive to me.

  12. #9852
    Quote Originally Posted by NotSoLazyDNC-Chair View Post
    Not at all. Bernie has made unrealistic claims to ideological purity and consistency.

    I'm merely showing the gaps in his own claims. With a nice dressing of snark and hyperbole.

    I'm the socialist saying the emperor has no clothes on.


    For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued. I bet this might be how Betsy Londrigan felt last night.
    Let's see what the Betsy thought... These also seem to be Stefanie Smith supporters and would fall under her supporters odd you didn't mention that. Even then I wouldn't blame Stefaine Smith for the actions of citizen wanting to get a response from a candidate.


    “It was a non-violent protest,” Smith wrote, “and if Betsy can’t handle a few people demanding a conversation about the life or death issues facing many of is [sic] in this district, she should quit now because she will not be able to handle Davis and Trump.”
    This wasn't last night.... My god you don't even read what you post.

    A Candidate being harassed by constituents over policy sort of falls within the part that is "their job".
    Last edited by Jettisawn; 2020-02-26 at 05:53 PM.
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  13. #9853
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Agreed, I just hope people realize that we gotta do more than elect a president that will sign it into law. We are going to have pressure both GOP, and DEM candidates. Which means we have to convince the bulk of the Washington D.C. establishment who seem to enjoy using the subject as a political football. The only way that happens is to make them think they're jobs are on the line.
    Agreed. That won't be easy due to how much money is made with the current system. For me, I will fight as hard as I can, as long as I can

    And who know maybe one day I will get a 1 day celebration!!!

  14. #9854
    Rising: "Pelosi signals comfort with Sanders nomination".

    Last edited by Drutt; 2020-02-26 at 06:08 PM.

  15. #9855
    I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

    There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

  16. #9856
    I am Murloc! Milchshake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Publicly Shaming a Fascist
    Posts
    5,786
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    "I'm not playing the victim" - followed by immediately playing the victim. We already have zenkai, find your own thing.
    Thanks for proving my point.


    Anyways.

    Anyone remember this time one year ago?

    All the announced candidates from one major party were running on some form of Single Payer or Public Option. It was a watershed moment in US politics.

    Then one guy had to heighten the contradictions. His policy had to be the one true healthcare policy. And has been driving this wedge issue the whole way.

    Thats why this debate fracture and turned into what it is now.

    He kneecapped all those other candidates and cleared the way for a Biden or Bloomberg.

    Some of those other candidates were pretty awesome. They also had strong commitments for voter's rights. Three had a Federal Jobs Guarantee in their platforms. One even had an idea for a Public Bank run through the post office.
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
    -Lady Foppington

  17. #9857
    Merely a Setback CommunismWillWin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Russia that is very communist, da.
    Posts
    25,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

    There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...
    Just repeating what Obama said.


    But yeah, I can understand why Americans don't like revolutions that overthrow the brutal dictatorships they backed. But hey, the US still gets to run a torture camp on Cuba, so its not all bad!
    Joe Biden is a rapist and his supporters are rape apologists

  18. #9858
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

    There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...
    ? If that's their objection, not sure who they'd vote for then, since Trump fellates autocrats all the time. Also, the old joke was about Mussolini, but whatever.

  19. #9859
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

    There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...
    Awww Comparing the child of Jewish Refugee who lost family in the holocaust with Hitler... Chris Matthews is that you?
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  20. #9860
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    But then you see the way they defend Bloomberg and the hand-waving of the things he's done. Do we actually agree on values? I think some people here would be wearing MAGA hats if Trump ran with a D next to his name.
    I'm just going to be a little rude and single this bit out because its one of the things I'm talking about. People do this, yes. I'm not going to go into details because that will just further dilute conversation, but the exact same thing seems to happen for Bernie Sanders, too. Hand waving happens constantly by people that support whichever candidate needs it. This is far from a Bloomberg-specific issue.

    I don't believe there are that many people here that would be Trump supporters just because he ran on the Democratic ticket, not with the shit he's done, said, and continues to do. The Trump supporters are very obvious, anyway. From random concern trolls like "Somewhatconcered" to random Germans like "DKjaigen." Or even someone like Trunksee, arguing about taxes, despite already having said in another thread that they don't give a shit about other people. They all manage to get replies to their obvious garbage, even though they are blatantly conversations of futility. People just enjoy arguing too much.

    Which is why I think that, even though many do agree on certain values, the need to argue is just too strong. And you end up with pages and pages of people just trying to attack each other in circular arguments that go nowhere. There is no back and forth debate to understand each other from most people.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •