1. #9941
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, I think they would. Because his budgets would lose them Senate seats, and McConnell has clearly signaled that while he'll back the president he's not going to put the Senate at risk if he can avoid it.



    The president doesn't have a choice with budgets. The last time Trump shut down the government for weeks and it was a gigantic shit sammich for Trump and the GOP.
    We will have to agree to disagree as for the shit sammich it did absolutely nothing to his base not in any metric that mattered.

  2. #9942
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i already told you. the problem is that a lot of senate rules are not legally binding. so make them. thats a better solution than handicapping the minority. our government is designed to ensure that there be negotiation.
    what is your problem with the legislature working together on something (compromising) if you admit that it is necessary? Why call it "delusional"?
    Because, when Obama was President, republicans chose to sabotage Obama rather than negotiate and compromise.

    It is reasonable to expect that they would do the same again should a Democrat win.

  3. #9943
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i already told you. the problem is that a lot of senate rules are not legally binding. so make them. thats a better solution than handicapping the minority. our government is designed to ensure that there be negotiation.
    what is your problem with the legislature working together on something (compromising) if you admit that it is necessary? why call it "delusional"?
    Lol where is the negotiation?

    I don't want to negotiate with bigots, fuck them.

    "let's find a nice compromise so you can discriminate against gay people" isn't passable.

  4. #9944
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The disturbing number of his supporters that have internalised the belief that "identity politics" are mutually exclusive with their economic goals.
    I've read this multiple times and have no clue what you are trying to say here. I presume in part because all politics are identity politics, which is probably diluting the point you are trying to make. Perhaps an example of what you're getting at would be handy?

    On the other hand, this is a clear tee up to hate on a candidate because you've decided their supporters are problematic, which means you are ignoring the fact that every candidate has problematic supporters but the MSM is in love with singling out Sanders supporters for this. AND, honestly, answering the "why are you scared of Bernie" by pointing at other people feels like a cop out answer anyway.

  5. #9945
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i already told you. the problem is that a lot of senate rules are not legally binding. so make them.
    circular logic as we have seen the senate can easily undo or ignore its own rules , what would be the point?

  6. #9946
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The disturbing number of his supporters that have internalised the belief that "identity politics" are mutually exclusive with their economic goals.
    The bad kind of identity politics were on full display last night when Biden tried to play the race card with Sanders' opposition to Obama's policies. If you don't understand why some people on the left are tired of that shit too then I don't know what to tell you.

  7. #9947
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    This is the main reason why Bernie winning would be a bad idea. Even if you agree with his ideals, he wouldn't be able to get anything done. He's been rather unsuccesful as a politician in getting anything done due to his inability to compromise.
    lol this is such nonsense.

    Nobody will get anything done with Mitch McConnell in the Senate, and its insanely unlikely the Dems can win the senate in 2020.

    Pretending that's unique to Sanders is a joke.

  8. #9948
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    lol this is such nonsense.

    Nobody will get anything done with Mitch McConnell in the Senate, and its insanely unlikely the Dems can win the senate in 2020.

    Pretending that's unique to Sanders is a joke.
    Well, not insanely.

  9. #9949
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Well, not insanely.
    Its so incredibly unlikely that its almost tantamount to a lie when the corporate candidates slam warren or sanders for not being able to "win the senate."

    None of the candidates are going to win the Senate. Democrats are not going to win the Senate in 2020. Its all about keeping the House (Which they most likely will, if not lose one or two seats) and get the Senate in 2022.

  10. #9950
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    lol this is such nonsense.

    Nobody will get anything done with Mitch McConnell in the Senate, and its insanely unlikely the Dems can win the senate in 2020.

    Pretending that's unique to Sanders is a joke.
    Right. I think we all know it's not likely Sanders will be able to force through all his policies.

    But that's not the point. The point is to force the national conversation to the left and tell the right wing hegemony in the US to go fuck itself.

  11. #9951
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    Right. I think we all know it's not likely Sanders will be able to force through all his policies.

    But that's not the point. The point is to force the national conversation to the left and tell the right wing hegemony in the US to go fuck itself.
    I find it pretty astounding that people slam Sanders and Warren for a bold agenda. Yeah we definitely shouldn't try to get someone in office who actually wants to change things. We should just keep voting the same status quo that does actually nothing. What a noble aspiration.
    Last edited by Yoshingo; 2020-02-26 at 09:16 PM.

  12. #9952
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    That isn’t it at all stop. What about his POLICIES scares you.
    Nothing. Because despite repeated insinuations to the contrary, I'm not in fact a secret neoliberal. That doesn't automatically mean I think he's a good fit for executive office. Policy is not the only thing that matters especially since...you know...the legislative agenda is set by Congress and not dictated by fiat.
    Quote Originally Posted by White America View Post
    I have no obligation to condemn racists. You ideologues on the other hand, are an actual problem.

  13. #9953
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    Its so incredibly unlikely that its almost tantamount to a lie when the corporate candidates slam warren or sanders for not being able to "win the senate."

    None of the candidates are going to win the Senate. Democrats are not going to win the Senate in 2020. Its all about keeping the House (Which they most likely will, if not lose one or two seats) and get the Senate in 2022.
    Got anything to back that up? Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, and Mitch McConnell are all either behind or within the margin of error. Unlikely, sure, but as I said, not insanely so.

  14. #9954
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    The bad kind of identity politics were on full display last night when Biden tried to play the race card with Sanders' opposition to Obama's policies. If you don't understand why some people on the left are tired of that shit too then I don't know what to tell you.
    "A centrist used the race card so I decided that minority concerns were a nuisance" is not the sort of opinion held by people we should be admiring.
    Quote Originally Posted by White America View Post
    I have no obligation to condemn racists. You ideologues on the other hand, are an actual problem.

  15. #9955
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Nothing. Because despite repeated insinuations to the contrary, I'm not in fact a secret neoliberal. That doesn't automatically mean I think he's a good fit for executive office. Policy is not the only thing that matters especially since...you know...the legislative agenda is set by Congress and not dictated by fiat.
    Congress gets changed by exciting Democrats to vote... what’s exciting about a person promising to not want to make major changes?

  16. #9956
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Congress gets changed by exciting Democrats to vote... what’s exciting about a person promising to not want to make major changes?
    Good thing I'm not canvassing for any of the moderate candidates then, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by White America View Post
    I have no obligation to condemn racists. You ideologues on the other hand, are an actual problem.

  17. #9957
    Biden caught out after telling a bizarre lie.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51648166

    Not sure what he was trying to achieve with that lie, outside of hoping to somehow counter Sanders' civil rights arrest record.

  18. #9958
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    "A centrist used the race card so I decided that minority concerns were a nuisance" is not the sort of opinion held by people we should be admiring.
    I didn't say that, but ok.

    I was pointing out an example of the kind of identity politics lots of people are fucking tired of, and then you took that as meaning minorities shouldn't have rights. Don't strain yourself trying to stretch that far.

  19. #9959
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Got anything to back that up? Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, and Mitch McConnell are all either behind or within the margin of error. Unlikely, sure, but as I said, not insanely so.
    And Doug Collins is likely going to lose his senate seat. So even if all 3 of them are removed (Which is unlikely for any of those three), Democrats would still only be up 2, still in the minority.

    Also your entire conversation is inherently implied to just assume Sanders would hurt everyone down ticket, when his policies are immensely popular in southern states.

    So do you want to argue the Democrats can win the Senate? Great. I don't agree but Sanders doesn't hurt that lol. You know what DOES hurt it, or at least doesn't change anyone's mind? A milquetoast moderate. Because Republican voters will just vote Republican instead of a Democrat who supports Republican lite policies that they've pandered to offering to try and sway them. But they WILL actually support a more expansive social and health care program.

  20. #9960
    Conservatives: Ban muslims. Ban gay marriage. Ban illegal immigrants. Tell the poor to quit being a burden. Tell women to shut up about their rights and needs. Stop the war on christians. Stop telling men to not be shits......

    .....
    .....
    .....

    oh yeah stop playing identity politics!!!!!

    Liberals: Um....
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

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