1. #16961
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Listen to BErnie and yourself. You guys are being divisive, just like in 2016. Crying "rigged", blaming minority voters <again>The same fucking playbook.

    Sorry freund, you guys just do not understand the American electorate.


    Bernie is just a conventional politician. He might be more corrosive and dishonest than conventional presidential candidates.

    The Sanders team ran 4,605 ads on TV in Florida attacking JoeBiden on Social Security, but voters know better. Thats your exit polling



    Voters dont trust Bernie on the issues. Because he hired professional trolls to staff his campaign. Honestly, he only seems interested in trolling Dems once every 4 years.
    The fuck are you talking about rigged and rambling about minorities?

    I’m offering a reason for why Cubans in the south vote different.

    I mean I even bring family and friends into the Cuban debate and you’re like “you’re just rambling” go back and read my fucking quote. You’re talking like a bot, you saw some key words and the replied with a canned comment.

    And I’m talking about Medicare and progressive policies... those are the exits polls. What’s wrong with you? I’m happy with Biden I’m happy with Bernie I am glad there are two people who I consider strong candidates yet you’re over here attacking me? For fucking what?!

  2. #16962
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    You wanted a response grounded in reality? Here's one.

    You said some time ago you just wanted to sit home and game. And well, now you have that opportunity. And so do a hundred million of other Americans all because Donald Trump didn't do his job and get ahead of this. He had that choice. He chose to downplay and lie about it. To call it a hoax. To deny testing kits and preparation.

    He didn't take his job serious. You, as illustrated by repeating the lie about Biden's health, don't take politics seriously.

    People are dying now, because people like you, people like Dextroden and people like Trump didn't want to take politics seriously. You wanted to sit home and game and treat everything like a game.

    Donald Trump failed in his first responsibility: to protect the American people. But before that, many millions of American failed in their democratic responsibility, to filter out someone who was obviously unfit for the job he was being given, because they treated it as a lark.

    And now we are seeing the consequences. A $1 trillion deficit that will be $2 trillion this here. Likely 6% unemployment by the end of this year. Manchin says 20% by next year is not out of the question. America effectively shutting down activity outside of homes.

    We are here because people like you wanted to play games.
    People in Italy did not vote for trump, they have better healthcare system, and are dying even more. Emergency rooms are now denied to anyone above 60. SIXTY.

    Is there any data to show that US is doing worse in terms of infection/death rates etc. than other countries like Italy, France, Spain etc?
    I mean in France we also spit on Macron, but we understand he is doing as bad/good as the rest of the planet.
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  3. #16963
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    I guess we need to bring slavery back and restrict voting to land owners since the founders got it right.
    I literally mentioned Lincoln and MLK as people who build upon their foundation. The flaws in the founders creation does not invalidate the creation.

    Maybe you should, I don't know... read people's response. Had you done that you might have learned about my objections to war with Iran like three or four years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    God I love the worship of corpses. I haven't heard about founders since fucking tea party idiots.

    Guess Skroe is drinking tea now.
    As I said, the thoughts you're sharing now... that's how we get Trump and that's how we're getting corpses piling up in an avoidable pandemic.

    The more we can put government out of your reach, the better off this country will be. And I firmly believe that is the endpoint due to the nature of the disaster that Trump, and you by proxy, enabled.

    But hey, you really taught them SJWs a thing or two! I hope it was worth it. *smirks*

  4. #16964
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I literally mentioned Lincoln and MLK as people who build upon their foundation. The flaws in the founders creation does not invalidate the creation.

    Maybe you should, I don't know... read people's response. Had you done that you might have learned about my objections to war with Iran like three or four years ago.



    As I said, the thoughts you're sharing now... that's how we get Trump and that's how we're getting corpses piling up in an avoidable pandemic.

    The more we can put government out of your reach, the better off this country will be. And I firmly believe that is the endpoint due to the nature of the disaster that Trump, and you by proxy, enabled.

    But hey, you really taught them SJWs a thing or two! I hope it was worth it. *smirks*
    MLK fought against your Republican party and their worship of slave owning founders. So, you can fuck off when you and your family agreed with segregation.

    And people who think Team America World Police is a documentary and not satire shouldn't lie to people about being against interventions. There are plenty of threads that make you out to be a nationalist scumbag. Exactly like Trump.

  5. #16965
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    People in Italy did not vote for trump, they have better healthcare system, and are dying even more. Emergency rooms are now denied to anyone above 60. SIXTY.

    Is there any data to show that US is doing worse in terms of infection/death rates etc. than other countries like Italy, France, Spain etc?
    I mean in France we also spit on Macron, but we understand he is doing as bad/good as the rest of the planet.
    I'm talking about the US, not Italy. Italy is as bad as it is because of it's own government's failure to get a handle of the situation quickly. My focus on the consequences in this context is firmly on the US.

    The US presently has 6535. 1748 cases were added yesterday. That is up from less than 3000 cases 2 days a go. It'll probably be over 10,000 by Friday and over 20,000 by mid next week.

    The problem is testing, which is where Trump failed most directly. Experts believe many tens of thousands of Americans could be infected and not even know it. But most can't get tested. Trump had months to prepare for this by stockpiling testing. He could have nipped it in the bud and tested at ports of entry. But his administration went out of its way to deny the snowballing crisis and call it a hoax.

    So now we have to catch up as a country, with thousands of unknown infected Americans in every state, rather than begin testing back in January when only a few people might have been infected.

    More broadly, the Trump administration's assault on expertise and "the deep state" has contributed to an overall degradation of disaster preparedness since 2016.

    Experts say that it's possible the US could be worse than Italy in 2-3 weeks. And modeling predicts between 215,000 and 2.5 million deaths over the next year.

    In large part because Donald Trump wanted to not have a bad headline for a few news cycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    MLK fought against your Republican party and their worship of slave owning founders. So, you can fuck off when you and your family agreed with segregation..
    My family agreed with segregation? I wasn't even a fetus in the 1960s my dude. I'm an 80's baby. My children-of-immigrants parents were in middle school in New York City. Not some Savannah plantation, ya know. Hell my father loves to joke how in his young naivete he joined the Communist party for like 6 months.

    So I think I think this is the end of our conversation. You're now wanting to go into some weird territory that exists only in your head. I'm going to put you back on ignore/time out for a while. That segregation comment... that was somethin....

    It's been a pleasure as always.

  6. #16966
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I'm talking about the US, not Italy. Italy is as bad as it is because of it's own government's failure to get a handle of the situation quickly. My focus on the consequences in this context is firmly on the US.

    The US presently has 6535. 1748 cases were added yesterday. That is up from less than 3000 cases 2 days a go. It'll probably be over 10,000 by Friday and over 20,000 by mid next week.

    The problem is testing, which is where Trump failed most directly. Experts believe many tens of thousands of Americans could be infected and not even know it. But most can't get tested. Trump had months to prepare for this by stockpiling testing. He could have nipped it in the bud and tested at ports of entry. But his administration went out of its way to deny the snowballing crisis and call it a hoax.

    So now we have to catch up as a country, with thousands of unknown infected Americans in every state, rather than begin testing back in January when only a few people might have been infected.

    More broadly, the Trump administration's assault on expertise and "the deep state" has contributed to an overall degradation of disaster preparedness since 2016.

    Experts say that it's possible the US could be worse than Italy in 2-3 weeks. And modeling predicts between 215,000 and 2.5 million deaths over the next year.

    In large part because Donald Trump wanted to not have a bad headline for a few news cycles.

    - - - Updated - - -


    My family agreed with segregation? I wasn't even a fetus in the 1960s my dude. I'm an 80's baby. My children-of-immigrants parents were in middle school in New York City. Not some Savannah plantation, ya know. Hell my father loves to joke how in his young naivete he joined the Communist party for like 6 months.

    So I think I think this is the end of our conversation. You're now wanting to go into some weird territory that exists only in your head. I'm going to put you back on ignore/time out for a while. That segregation comment... that was somethin....

    It's been a pleasure as always.
    Uh huh. Totally not a upper class white Republican.

    Okay, Chaddington.

  7. #16967
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Lol Skroe has done nothing but complain about the Iraq War for years, how does he own it? Literally almost every post he makes where he discusses the US military being behind where it should have been technologically, having less capacity than it should, or reduced readiness, etc., he goes on at length about how terrible it was for the US to have invaded Iraq and stayed there this whole time.
    Dex argues against the you in his head, which is not based anywhere in reality.
    Wall of LOLs
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Yeah I know. It'll take another 2 years + to knock Rozz and Flarelane down to size as Endus eventually was. Not worth the effort. My lack of posting here recently has been sort of 2-fold. One is because it's extremely boring watching the crazies come to the inevitable conclusion that they've failed. TDS seems to be an awfully persistent disease. Two is because I'm saving my infraction points to unleash unholy Hell when Trump wins re-election.

  8. #16968
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    People in Italy did not vote for trump, they have better healthcare system, and are dying even more. Emergency rooms are now denied to anyone above 60. SIXTY.

    Is there any data to show that US is doing worse in terms of infection/death rates etc. than other countries like Italy, France, Spain etc?
    I mean in France we also spit on Macron, but we understand he is doing as bad/good as the rest of the planet.
    Italy got unlucky in terms of having one of the earliest large outbreaks out of China. They also have a much more congested population, more elderly people integrated into communities (as opposed to the US where space isn't a premium), and has had crippling economic and political problems since 2018 largely stagnating society level responses. I would also point out that they do not have a better health care system for this particular issue. To be specific, Italy's emergency services program isn't staffed to address large scale problems, and there is a severe shortage of emergency medicine trained physicians. Their primary care health system is excellent, but it's not the right tool for the job of mass responses, so what looks excellent on paper isn't something that will carry through.

    The main advantage that the US has in comparison is that emergency medicine is far more prioritized, populations are naturally segregated, elderly populations tend to be more separated either by location such as Florida or Arizona or nursing homes (or owning their own personal separate home, not nearly as common in Italy), communal awareness had quite a bit of a head start, and the governors rallied to form stage based plans.

  9. #16969
    Sanders is "assessing his campaign"

    inc drop out in a week or two.

  10. #16970
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The problem is testing, which is where Trump failed most directly. Experts believe many tens of thousands of Americans could be infected and not even know it. But most can't get tested. Trump had months to prepare for this by stockpiling testing. He could have nipped it in the bud and tested at ports of entry. But his administration went out of its way to deny the snowballing crisis and call it a hoax.

    So now we have to catch up as a country, with thousands of unknown infected Americans in every state, rather than begin testing back in January when only a few people might have been infected.

    More broadly, the Trump administration's assault on expertise and "the deep state" has contributed to an overall degradation of disaster preparedness since 2016.

    Experts say that it's possible the US could be worse than Italy in 2-3 weeks. And modeling predicts between 215,000 and 2.5 million deaths over the next year.
    While it is true that the United States is in a far worse state then official numbers show on confirmed cases if it was as bad as you suggest you'd see a considerably higher death toll then right now. Trump screwed up quite badly with the testing and not wanting to upset things and thus wasted a lot of the time he gained by shutting down travel to China quite quickly.

    Speaking strictly as a European here believe me when I say I'd MUCH rather be dealing with Trump as my leader then the imbeciles in charge over here who didn't close borders when they should have and were quite recently talking about 70%+ of the population getting infected. Boris Jonhson quite openly advocated it but so did Mark Rutte ( Prime Minister of the Netherlands ) and even Angela Merkel made some comments in favor of it.

    Well if that happens we can expect millions of dead. Why are they saying it? Because our dear leaders really don't want to shut down everything and close us in our houses, it goes counter to everything they believe in. They are doing it now, but the price....will be horific.

    That orange imbecile in the White House got very, VERY lucky with his call to close the borders to China. It gave him time that others don't have, and even as he's wasted a lot of that time by refusing to accept how bad it was it still gives the United States a significant advantage over other countries.

    Because what we need is time. A year to get a vaccine and ( hopefully ) treatment for everyone.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  11. #16971
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Sanders is "assessing his campaign"

    inc drop out in a week or two.
    Losing florida by double digits is a pretty clear indication he has no path forward. He will not get to the convention with a majority and there is no way in hell he could wrangle some kind of minority nomination given his conflicts with the DNC. He failed to appeal to the older african american voters AGAIN after that being the cause of his 2016 failure and again is getting wiped out in the big southern states.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    While it is true that the United States is in a far worse state then official numbers show on confirmed cases if it was as bad as you suggest you'd see a considerably higher death toll then right now. Trump screwed up quite badly with the testing and not wanting to upset things and thus wasted a lot of the time he gained by shutting down travel to China quite quickly.

    Speaking strictly as a European here believe me when I say I'd MUCH rather be dealing with Trump as my leader then the imbeciles in charge over here who didn't close borders when they should have and were quite recently talking about 70%+ of the population getting infected. Boris Jonhson quite openly advocated it but so did Mark Rutte ( Prime Minister of the Netherlands ) and even Angela Merkel made some comments in favor of it.

    Well if that happens we can expect millions of dead. Why are they saying it? Because our dear leaders really don't want to shut down everything and close us in our houses, it goes counter to everything they believe in. They are doing it now, but the price....will be horific.

    That orange imbecile in the White House got very, VERY lucky with his call to close the borders to China. It gave him time that others don't have, and even as he's wasted a lot of that time by refusing to accept how bad it was it still gives the United States a significant advantage over other countries.

    Because what we need is time. A year to get a vaccine and ( hopefully ) treatment for everyone.
    The problem with Trumps close the border call is it came too late. Closing the barn doors after all the horses are gone makes you feel good but accomplishes nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    he lacks any form of emotional maturity, so i wouldn't expect any response grounded in reality.

    but anyway, idk why they don't just pull biden if sanders drops out, replace him with someone else. it's not that i think him being mentally unsound will matter as president, i know his team around him would be making all of the decisions. but it's kinda just wrong to force him onto the campaign trail when he should be going into medical care for his very obvious issues. if anyone of his family cares about him, they should be forcing this to end.
    I suspect the plan if there is one from the DNC is have biden pick a strong VP candidate and then groom her and have her be out front doing stuff immediately to try to get her set to be the go to pick in 2024. So joe can be the kindly uncle figure while having somebody younger and more active do the actual run the country stuff.

  12. #16972
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Sanders is "assessing his campaign"

    inc drop out in a week or two.
    Honestly, we shouldn't care if he drops out at this point. Primaries (and elections in general) are not about candidates giving up until there's only one option and votes don't matter. They're about the votes. Let the people have their say, even if the conclusion is really obvious at this point.

    Pulling out to refocus your support behind a remaining candidate makes sense. Not pulling out when you're one of the Final Two. If you realize you've got no shot, though, now's the time to start laying the groundwork for getting your supporters to back the other guy in the general.

  13. #16973
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    If they hide it, and I don't know if they do, they do it to protect the obvious democrat nominee against trump! They don't want to give tools to trump to beat biden!

    See what I did there? The blame the media game sucks really
    Well do you really think they will NOT bring it up in the General? Cuz "objectivity" and the Republicans wont be shy to bring it up and ofcourse the media will then "have to" respond and ask Biden about it. That will go REALLY well because we know how good he performs when asked questions he dont want to answer.

  14. #16974
    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    The problem with Trumps close the border call is it came too late. Closing the barn doors after all the horses are gone makes you feel good but accomplishes nothing.
    Fundamentally FALSE. There are 30.000 cases in Italy right now, and just over 200 in Romania and the internal European borders have been closed precisely to stop the spread of the disease. That's an example I'll use. Every country across the world is ceasing travel to and from countries with a significant amount of cases and for good reasons.

    So while it may not fix the problem you can be very grateful that you don't have hundreds if not thousands of people dead right now in the United States thanks to that decision as we do in Europe. All for what? So that people in charge can keep their precious free movement of people and international liberal order intact? Well great job, they've done more damage to them then ANYTHING the most right wing nationalist leader ever managed to, and they did it in just 3 months.

    As I sit here wondering if my elderly mother, and many aged family members will survive this. I am furious beyond measure as to what the European leaders failed at.

    Joe Biden, and others, called Trump's decision to close travel xenophobia. I wonder if he's ready to have political ads run against him non-stop for months for that little stunt.

    More then anything should be a reckoning for China for what they unleashed, a deep bloody one too.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2020-03-18 at 03:09 PM.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  15. #16975
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Fundamentally FALSE. There are 30.000 cases in Italy right now, and just over 200 in Romania and the internal European borders have been closed precisely to stop the spread of the disease. That's an example I'll use. Every country across the world is ceasing travel to and from countries with a significant amount of cases and for good reasons.

    So while it may not fix the problem you can be very grateful that you don't have hundreds if not thousands of people dead right now in the United States thanks to that decision as we do in Europe. All for what? So that people in charge can keep their precious free movement of people and international liberal order intact? Well great job, they've done more damage to them then ANYTHING the most right wing nationalist leader ever managed to, and they did it in just 3 months.

    Joe Biden, and others, called Trump's decision to close travel xenophobia. I wonder if he's ready to have political ads run against him non-stop for months for that little stunt.

    More then anything should be a reckoning for China for what they unleashed, a deep bloody one too.
    The virus is freely transmitting inside the US. The door was shut too late had it been done earlier combined with actual testing it would have been even more limited. The closing of the borders was a placebo to make it feel like something was being done. In actuality the damage was long since done. The lack of testing exacerbates this because we legit have no idea how wide spread it really is and when the cases start maturing in the next week or so shits could get very very real. Every response from the trump admin has been late he was so worried about optics early on that he did not want to do anything that would rise the number of listed cases which directly impacted the speed of deployment and usage of testing. Countries like singapore immediately started testing the shit out of everybody identifying cases isolating them and keeping it from becoming an issue.

  16. #16976
    @kaid: As I've stated. I agree Trump screwed up on the testing, but bear in mind the United States is not a city state like Singapore to just be able to keep a lid on things, nor is it a small country like South Korea with significant concentrations of their population.

    As for the damage being done...no. That would imply the United States had reached the peak of the pandemic, it hasn't, it's only really started. So to argue that restricting travel is pointless is criminal and by criminal I mean it literally: I want the leaders of Europe on trial for how badly they've handled this. Because only this monday, and ONLY with their hand forced by certain countries did they close the internal borders of Europe.

    My country of Romania got all of it's cases thanks to our large diaspora that works in countries like Italy, but we can contain it. We can manage it because we've finally taken the necessary measures.

    Is it as effective as it could have been had we acted earlier? Absolutely true that is isn't, but it does have an impact.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2020-03-18 at 03:29 PM.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  17. #16977
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Bernie needs to drop out, like, yesterday. First thing is to whole heartedly endorse Biden and give a quality, heartfelt speech on why it so critical that his supporters do the smart thing in backing Biden. He should just keep saying RBG, RBG, RBG, Breyer, RBG!!! The progressive movement isn’t dead, just focus on grass roots, local and state elections for 2020. He should then spend his time skewering Trump and the GOP for their dangerous redirect until the last week. And how they’re Johnny-come-latelies to “Democratic Socialism” now that the shit has hit the fan.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

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  18. #16978
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    @kaid: As I've stated. I agree Trump screwed up on the testing, but bear in mind the United States is not a city state like Singapore to just be able to keep a lid on things, nor is it a small country like South Korea with significant concentrations of their population.

    As for the damage being done...no. That would imply the United States had reached the peak of the pandemic, it hasn't, it's only really started. So to argue that restricting travel is pointless is criminal and by criminal I mean it literally: I want the leaders of Europe on trial for how badly they've handled this. Because only this monday, and ONLY with their hand forced by certain countries did they close the internal borders of Europe.

    My country of Romania got all of it's cases thanks to our large diaspora that works in countries like Italy, but we can contain it. We can manage it because we've finally taken the necessary measures.

    Is it as effective as it could have been had we acted earlier? Absolutely true, but it does have an impact.
    I am glad Israel locked down borders as soon as it did. Would have been better a week earlier too, but beggars can be choosers at this point.

  19. #16979
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    This has gotten severely off-topic. Remain civil and keep to the primaries.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
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  20. #16980
    nvm just saw mod post

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The fuck are you talking about rigged and rambling about minorities?

    I’m offering a reason for why Cubans in the south vote different.

    I mean I even bring family and friends into the Cuban debate and you’re like “you’re just rambling” go back and read my fucking quote. You’re talking like a bot, you saw some key words and the replied with a canned comment.

    And I’m talking about Medicare and progressive policies... those are the exits polls. What’s wrong with you? I’m happy with Biden I’m happy with Bernie I am glad there are two people who I consider strong candidates yet you’re over here attacking me? For fucking what?!
    Cubans are not going to vote for anyone who say Castro wasn't all bad. You don't risk your life on a raft because some guy wasn't all bad

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