Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Flarelaine]

If enough party leaders got together and personally told Biden to drop he'd do it. Especially if they backed it up with something real like publicly switching their support.

I've read any number of times over the past four years how the DNC is the Big Bad for Overriding the Will of the People.

But now, suddenly it would be the righteous thing to do?

[Sorshen]

I've read any number of times over the past four years how the DNC is the Big Bad for Overriding the Will of the People.

But now, suddenly it would be the righteous thing to do?

Don't act like the DNC actually cares about the "will of the people", they do the minimum to get by...

[Draco-Onis]

Bernie represents the common people. The majority who can't even take a day off work to go vote.

Bernie failed to get people to show up to vote for him even in states where they held primaries on weekends. You can make the case that though people love Bernie's policy they are too scared to take a chance because Trump is such a huge threat. We are going with Biden it's settled unless the virus takes him that won't change.

[JohnBrown1917]

Bernie failed to get people to show up to vote for him even in states where they held primaries on weekends. You can make the case that though people love Bernie's policy they are too scared to take a chance because Trump is such a huge threat. We are going with Biden it's settled unless the virus takes him that won't change.

The US suffers from widespread voter suppression, low voter turnout can hardly be blamed on a candidate in a country like that.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anders/608137/

[Flarelaine]

Bernie represents the common people. The majority who can't even take a day off work to go vote.

Explain why Bernie was crushed in states with early and mail-in voting, then.

[Kasierith]

Bernie failed to get people to show up to vote for him even in states where they held primaries on weekends. You can make the case that though people love Bernie's policy they are too scared to take a chance because Trump is such a huge threat. We are going with Biden it's settled unless the virus takes him that won't change.

There's more to supporting Biden over Sanders than just thinking he'll do better vs Trump. After 4 years of major upsets and unrest because Trump is a full blown narcissist with nearly no limits put on him by the Republicans, a return to sanity sounds pretty damn appealing. Instead we want to go to the exact other extreme, someone pushing for a full overhaul of nearly every facet of governance. And despite what college students believe, most of your average working people want to be on a level playing field, and not have huge overhauls every few years.

AOC is a good example of where things need to go if you want to make a stable system. I was dismissive of her at the start, but she has demonstrated a mix of firebrand progressivism with the pragmatism to get what she wants done. The keystone of that being her involvement with the Cohen hearings, where she asked important, pointed questions to put the information the democrats needed on the record while the rest were baying for blood and pushing for campaign soundbytes. Put people who want clear forward progress in the house, the senate, and the governors. Build up the base for a progressive movement in the political system.

The alternative is the tiny things that Sanders can get accomplished solo can be wiped clean on a whim.

[Inuyaki]

The US suffers from widespread voter suppression, low voter turnout can hardly be blamed on a candidate in a country like that.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anders/608137/

tbh he makes some good points.
Especially the stuff that you have to register in every state... what archaic system is that?

In Germany if you turn 18, you are automatically registered.
Then if you move, you go to the citizen center of your new town and tell them you moved (you have to do that within a few weeks, this is a must).
They will handly pretty much everything. They change your id card on the spot and then they will tell every important government office about your new address and inform the old one that you don't live there anymore.
And of course that also means you are registered again... automatically...

There often are a lot of laughs about German bureaucracy (tbh it is bad in many cases), but a lot of essential stuff seems so hard in some other countries, that I wonder if it is really worse here than in the US for example

[unfilteredJW]

There's more to supporting Biden over Sanders than just thinking he'll do better vs Trump. After 4 years of major upsets and unrest because Trump is a full blown narcissist with nearly no limits put on him by the Republicans, a return to sanity sounds pretty damn appealing. Instead we want to go to the exact other extreme, someone pushing for a full overhaul of nearly every facet of governance. And despite what college students believe, most of your average working people want to be on a level playing field, and not have huge overhauls every few years.

AOC is a good example of where things need to go if you want to make a stable system. I was dismissive of her at the start, but she has demonstrated a mix of firebrand progressivism with the pragmatism to get what she wants done. The keystone of that being her involvement with the Cohen hearings, where she asked important, pointed questions to put the information the democrats needed on the record while the rest were baying for blood and pushing for campaign soundbytes. Put people who want clear forward progress in the house, the senate, and the governors. Build up the base for a progressive movement in the political system.

The alternative is the tiny things that Sanders can get accomplished solo can be wiped clean on a whim.

I wish more people had your grasp of the system.

[Draco-Onis]

There's more to supporting Biden over Sanders than just thinking he'll do better vs Trump. After 4 years of major upsets and unrest because Trump is a full blown narcissist with nearly no limits put on him by the Republicans, a return to sanity sounds pretty damn appealing. Instead we want to go to the exact other extreme, someone pushing for a full overhaul of nearly every facet of governance. And despite what college students believe, most of your average working people want to be on a level playing field, and not have huge overhauls every few years.

AOC is a good example of where things need to go if you want to make a stable system. I was dismissive of her at the start, but she has demonstrated a mix of firebrand progressivism with the pragmatism to get what she wants done. The keystone of that being her involvement with the Cohen hearings, where she asked important, pointed questions to put the information the democrats needed on the record while the rest were baying for blood and pushing for campaign soundbytes. Put people who want clear forward progress in the house, the senate, and the governors. Build up the base for a progressive movement in the political system.

The alternative is the tiny things that Sanders can get accomplished solo can be wiped clean on a whim.

Actually that's just your spin the polling is pretty clear beating Trump is the foremost concern if you go into detailed polling on minorities it is basically the only concern. We are going with Biden because we are scared of trying anything new, old boring white guy who is a conservative is what we assume the yokels will like. Of course Biden is better than Trump but so is a monkey throwing feces at the screen.

I can prove it easily what is Biden's message "Remember Obama" that's it nothing else about his platform even resonates voters are going to their safe space.

- - - Updated - - -

The US suffers from widespread voter suppression, low voter turnout can hardly be blamed on a candidate in a country like that.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...anders/608137/

There is no amount of voter suppression that can explain the ass whooping Bernie got in some of these states, I am sorry but what are they surpressing? the black vote that largely went for Biden?

[Draco-Onis]

Large voter suppression in itself hurts insurgent candidates, especially in primaries where you have to registered ahead of time. Bernie's politics and his unwillingness to "play the game", is his biggest problem. Perhaps he couldn't have gotten Jim Clyburn endorsement, but he might have been able to make the case not to endorse Biden. That's what got him a large part of the black vote especially among older voters, but everyone seemly wants to dismiss Bernie's huge support of those under 45, and especially within the Latino Community.

There is no reason for Bernie to drop out, as he is doing staying within the rules of the Primary, just like Biden and the DNC did when they knew they couldn't have a divided field to defeat Bernie.

That however is a huge problem and big distinction between the GOP and the DNC. The GOP in 2016 did very little to stop Trump, and it's not within the GOP nature to "go after" people within their own party. Yet time and again the second the progressive steps out of line (see Ilhan Omar), or someone like Bernie enters a primary all the stops are pulled and they have no problem pressing the electorate through less than morally acceptable means.

I am not saying Bernie to drop out I am not saying any of that but it would be foolish to say that there is no problem with Bernie's appeal and policies. Bernie's numbers are lower than 2016 even with those under the age of 45, his ceiling seems to be 35% of the democratic electorate. If progressives do not look at the numbers and polling and keep blaming the DNC, voter suppression and everything else they would have learned nothing. Bernie knew the DNC was going to pull this maybe not this soon, I think we would have been better served if we had consolidated with a candidate like Warren but I am biased as I supported her from the go.

These are the rules of the game don't like it then we need to consider making our own party which at the moment would be dumb. Either way we should analyze the autopsy and realize where things went wrong.

[Kasierith]

I am not saying Bernie to drop out I am not saying any of that but it would be foolish to say that there is no problem with Bernie's appeal and policies. Bernie's numbers are lower than 2016 even with those under the age of 45, his ceiling seems to be 35% of the democratic electorate. If progressives do not look at the numbers and polling and keep blaming the DNC, voter suppression and everything else they would have learned nothing. Bernie knew the DNC was going to pull this maybe not this soon, I think we would have been better served if we had consolidated with a candidate like Warren but I am biased as I supported her from the go.

Warren was my #1 choice from the start. Policies moving in the direction I want, especially especially curtailing corporate overreach, that can realistically be realized given the current political climate. Unfortunately for her, Sanders pulled the progressives to him and Biden pulled the mainstay dem voters.

[Milchshake]

One of the biggest fears of Dems and other Leftists that are cool on Bernie.
Bernie will damage down ballot races.
Great explainer from Rep Clyburn.
“When I say, ‘I don’t get mad, I get even’, there’s one person who is going to hear from me. His name is Michael Moore. . .According to Michael Moore, South Carolina doesn’t matter because here’s what ‘the people’ want." -James Clyburn


Bernie and his biggest supporters see themselves as the normative Dem. Uhhhh nope. Sorry, but a majority of Dems dont relate to guys with multiple house that have spent decades trashing their party.

Fascinating piece - I was surprised by Clyburn's suggestion of Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms as Vice President.

[Telogrus]

Lmao I’m getting downvoted on r/politics because I said that Donald Trump is not worse than OJ Simpson. Have Democrats gone completely crazy? This is how we lose 2020

[cubby]

Lmao I’m getting downvoted on r/politics because I said that Donald Trump is not worse than OJ Simpson. Have Democrats gone completely crazy? This is how we lose 2020

Donald Trump is worse than OJ Simpson.

[Orbitus]

Lmao I’m getting downvoted on r/politics because I said that Donald Trump is not worse than OJ Simpson. Have Democrats gone completely crazy? This is how we lose 2020

Yes, Trump is WORSE, FAR WORSE, than OJ Simpson.

[Rukh]

People want to say Bernie hurts down ballot candidate oddly enough forget that it was Obama, Biden, and business as usual DNC that lost the Democrats a 1000 seats in the US while he was in office.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...t-the-country/

But lets go back to business as usual?

It was that Obama was seen as radical for (being black) running on ACA and (Trump claiming he was born in kenya) taking up the flag of change. You should be able to see how that is actually more applicable to Sanders becoming the nominee than Biden and you should also understand how in no way that applies to Sanders staying in the race when he has no chance.

[Rukh]

Biden could implode at anytime. Bernie staying in the race is doing the DNC a favor.

But he won't, and Sanders will keep being a drag on the fight against Trump.

[Rukh]

How so? You think Trump will go easier on Biden if Bernie doesn't drop out? That makes no sense.

Everything Bernie has been critical of has been on policy toward Biden. Trump doesn't ever really talk about policy. It's a primary, let it play out or do you hate even having the semblance of a democratic process?

How Trump will fight Biden isn't relevant. How Sanders affects overall Democratic participation is. Sanders is bigger than his own message. His camp has been hyper negative and is a primary source of the negative material. In fact, I have to say his camp probably is part of the reason so many democrats were put off by him.

[Rukh]

If either Biden or Bernie wins, it is their job to defeat Trump. This blaming people before the end of the primary is a bullshit tactic, and one I'll never buy into too. The same people will tell Bernie, and his supporters to be silent if Biden ends up winning the White House. You still see it now among those within the DNC who has pointed out the times Bernie was critical of Obama.

Sorry the DNC chooses to crap on people like Bernie, AOC, Omar, and other progressive within their party whenever they see fit, but they will scorn them to submit in a race? Sorry, no dice. It's an election year, and Biden doesn't simple get handed the nomination even if he has appears to be presumptive nominee. Especially when he can't do a single guest appearance without some kind of mental breakdown.

So the thing you need to understand is that the DNC is actually people like AOC Omar, Sanders and also supporters of Biden. It's a diverse club. Stop trying to push them away. The reason Sanders lost so bad is he doesn't know how to make peace with people and build those bridges. But you don't have to fall in to that. Lets move forward.

[Telogrus]

Yes, Trump is WORSE, FAR WORSE, than OJ Simpson.

He’s literally a murderer dude. Calm down