1. #9861
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Warren's problem is she's too left wing and too outspoken. Everything else is noise.

    A VP needs to come across as the "good wife" (regardless of their sex). Supportive of the President, not too loud, not too aggressive. Very "mild-mannered".
    It can come off as misogynistic but I get what you are saying. I also agree, generally you want someone very loyal to your cause. Especially if you are fairly old.

    I do doubt her Left-Wing cred a bit, or compared to Bernie she isn't all there on a few things. But she is further Left than clearly many party goons want since she is never floated on their list of who they'd ratfuck it for. She is just enough not in Sanders camp that really I don't think she'd make a good partner.

    This is also why I doubt AOC as a choice. Bless her, but even on the campaign trail she often forgets to even mention who she is campaigning for.

    That is why I kinda settle on Nina Turner or Tulsi Gabbard; I can't think of anyone else who has suffered for Bernie's sake, who've shown that level of loyalty. Both have paid a huge price for their loyalty so I'd pick either one. While obviously I'm biased for Gabbard for her Hinduism; the objective part of me would say Turner is a safe choice because she is from Ohio and is well known there and right now IDK what Gabbards political goals are long term, I kinda think she is on her own quest now or already has some other arrangement with Sanders.

    Warren is a more useful Senator strategically; but she will have to win back favor with the Left after some of her stunts this campaign. She has made a lot of mistakes. But not fatal mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  2. #9862
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Petty gossip time.

    The candidates released their food budgets. Why? Its the law.

    Sanders spent most of his money on pizza. Bloomberg, on rich people stuff. Biden on Boomer stuff. Warren like Panera and bar food.

    Pete. Pete is normal right? Nothing that will play into charges against him, right. Just basic 38 year old stuff right?

    Hall Wines, LLC - $10,365.72
    Damn Pete! They are already out here calling you Wine Cave Pete. Then you spend most of your food budget at a winery. How do I defend this Pete? I can't. You should just drop out.

    https://www.eater.com/2020/2/24/2114...ders-bloomberg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Is Yang the one who hung himself on those "take your guns" comments? Or was that someone else?
    Beto.

    Yang is $1,000 a month guy.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2020-02-29 at 04:23 AM.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  3. #9863
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    just found out i cant vote for the democratic nominee because i registered as a republican when i was 18, because i'm fucking stupid. And so is this law.
    They screwed up my party and I had to change it, was more of a hassle than it should have been, but it could have been worse, fortunately since we have mail-in voting and I'm signed up for it, they sent me my ballot early so I noticed and had time to make the change.
    /s

  4. #9864
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    My point is that Bernie does need a more moderate VP.
    I think he basically needs a Tim Kaine. A baffling VP for Hillary Clinton to have picked given that she needed to pick up minority voters and Bernie Sanders' left wing of the party, but he'd make more sense for Bernie Sanders to ground his campaign... if not for the fact that he's still another old white male.

  5. #9865
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Beto.

    Yang is $1,000 a month guy.
    Ah thank you. I knew it was a 4-letter-name guy who wasn't "Pete".

    Speaking of which, Pete and Amy's last names will disqualify them from getting the nomination...short of everyone else dropping dead. "Obama" was odd, but easy odd. Every time I go to say Klobuchar I missay it as Klo-BUch-ar, and lightning strikes and horses whinny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    I think he basically needs a Tim Kaine. A baffling VP for Hillary Clinton to have picked given that she needed to pick up minority voters and Bernie Sanders' left wing of the party, but he'd make more sense for Bernie Sanders to ground his campaign... if not for the fact that he's still another old white male.
    Ugh I know. All the "good moderates" seem to be more old white men. If Buttigieg had any morals in him I'd have thought he might be a good pick but yeah...nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    It can come off as misogynistic but I get what you are saying. I also agree, generally you want someone very loyal to your cause. Especially if you are fairly old.

    I do doubt her Left-Wing cred a bit, or compared to Bernie she isn't all there on a few things. But she is further Left than clearly many party goons want since she is never floated on their list of who they'd ratfuck it for. She is just enough not in Sanders camp that really I don't think she'd make a good partner.

    This is also why I doubt AOC as a choice. Bless her, but even on the campaign trail she often forgets to even mention who she is campaigning for.
    In Warren and AOCs case they are both loud, outspoken women, which in a Presidency role is great, totally necessary. But in a VP role it'll work against them.

    That is why I kinda settle on Nina Turner or Tulsi Gabbard; I can't think of anyone else who has suffered for Bernie's sake, who've shown that level of loyalty. Both have paid a huge price for their loyalty so I'd pick either one. While obviously I'm biased for Gabbard for her Hinduism; the objective part of me would say Turner is a safe choice because she is from Ohio and is well known there and right now IDK what Gabbards political goals are long term, I kinda think she is on her own quest now or already has some other arrangement with Sanders.

    Warren is a more useful Senator strategically; but she will have to win back favor with the Left after some of her stunts this campaign. She has made a lot of mistakes. But not fatal mistakes.
    I don't know much about Turner to be honest, and IMO all Gabbard really brings is political baggage.

    Bernie basically needs a leftist Pete Buttigieg. Someone committed to the left (even if it's a mild left), speaks well, looks good and is substantially younger (50's or less).

    ALSO: why is the forum cutting off the ends of my posts?

    ** in case you don't get the reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIID_TGwhM
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  6. #9866
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It might go that high, but then again it might not. The real issue is the fatality rate, which seems to be exceedingly low - somewhere between 1-2% of those infected. That's not great, but it's not a pandemic, in the sense of results.
    Let's assume the lowest figures. 40% of the world, 1% fatality rate for those infected.

    That's a death toll of a little over 31 million people.

    That's up there with the worst pandemics we've seen. Not quite Smallpox levels, but catching up on the Spanish Flu and the HIV/AIDS pandemic.


  7. #9867
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Abrams? /10c
    Like Nurasu said, it was about Gabbard.

    As far as Abrams, I'm pretty neutral but do get annoyed when people throw her name around just trying to exploit her race and gender. You spent some effort trying to get Jetti to explain his pointless beef with her, but it would probably be constructive to get a little more dialogue about why she would be a good choice besides almost winning that crooked election.
    /s

  8. #9868
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's assume the lowest figures. 40% of the world, 1% fatality rate for those infected.

    That's a death toll of a little over 31 million people.

    That's up there with the worst pandemics we've seen. Not quite Smallpox levels, but catching up on the Spanish Flu and the HIV/AIDS pandemic.
    And then of course the issue will be dealing with all the dead, which will in turn cause it's own disease (even if more mundane ones) to spread in the aftermath, especially if large death tolls become isolated (ie: one town gets both a ridiculous infection and death rate), and worsened if those places are already unsanitary to begin with.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  9. #9869
    Given the way this has been handled I would be incredibly surprised if there hasn't been many thousands of Americans exposed to the virus by now.

  10. #9870
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's assume the lowest figures. 40% of the world, 1% fatality rate for those infected.

    That's a death toll of a little over 31 million people.

    That's up there with the worst pandemics we've seen. Not quite Smallpox levels, but catching up on the Spanish Flu and the HIV/AIDS pandemic.
    Also, there's reports suggesting a fatality rate closer to 10-15%, for more vulnerable demographics such as those aged 70+.

    This going to get ugly if it infects 40-70% of the global population.

  11. #9871
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's assume the lowest figures. 40% of the world, 1% fatality rate for those infected.

    That's a death toll of a little over 31 million people.

    That's up there with the worst pandemics we've seen. Not quite Smallpox levels, but catching up on the Spanish Flu and the HIV/AIDS pandemic.
    But where are you getting the 40% from? And the fatality rate is from sub-first world country medical facilities.

  12. #9872
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But where are you getting the 40% from? And the fatality rate is from sub-first world country medical facilities.
    From a link in an earlier post you already responded to?

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post52140949


  13. #9873
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    I can say a lot of bad stuff about Tom Steyer politically and he tries too hard to seem like the 'good billionaire' but he isn't a bad person and obviously having fun...and his wife has a little bit of rhythm.

    https://twitter.com/chauntelpowell/s...11914686627840

    Also Sanders will be rallying with Public Enemy on Sunday. Definitely wish I could see that.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  14. #9874
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Did Bernie already destroy Democrat prospects for 2020 or only half way there? Sorry, I was not following a couple of days.

  15. #9875
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Did Bernie already destroy Democrat prospects for 2020 or only half way there? Sorry, I was not following a couple of days.
    Oh man are you in for a fun surprise.

  16. #9876
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Oh man are you in for a fun surprise.
    Oh boy, I'm excited now!

  17. #9877
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    My point is that Bernie does need a more moderate VP. Or at least a soft-spoken young leftie. Warren is neither young nor soft spoken nor more moderate. He needs someone who go out and speak in favor of Bernie's plans but not sound like they're undermining or usurping or overruling him.

    A VP is a largely do-nothing position aside from speaking in support of what the President wants and winning the tie-breaking vote. So that's all whoever gets the job really needs to do: support Bernie's positions and vote in favor of Bernie's plans when the Senate ties. Bernie needs a "Bernie-to-be in training" who, assuming Bernie's platform gets traction while he's in office, can run on continuing the good work after he's out.

    Warren is better served in other positions.
    I know what your point is, I just disagree with it 100%.

    You are playing form a playbook that is obsolete and lost the last election to the worst and least qualified candidate in the modern history of the US who was running against the most moderate and qualified candidate in the modern history fo the US.

    Trump won because the independents are NOT MODERATE. They are fed up and want change. The only people crying about the need for moderates is the Dem establishment who is so moderate they are being pulled to the right by the extremist right of the current Republicans.

    The Dems have to stop playing appease everyone lawyer ball, go for the fucking win.

    It is batshit crazy to keep thinking the country wants a moderate when they voted for Trump against a moderate and are giving Sanders record numbers against Biden and other moderates. Its like when do you guys pay attention to what's actually happening?
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2020-02-29 at 02:33 PM.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  18. #9878
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But where are you getting the 40% from? And the fatality rate is from sub-first world country medical facilities.
    40% is the low end of the recent Harvard professor's computer model.

    As for the mortality rate/sub-first world country medical facilities: firstly, there's no cure or vaccine for the coronavirus. If you can't cure it then the medical system you go through won't make a whole lot of difference, because what can be done is essentially basic stuff that any medical system can do. Secondly, the US system is sub-first world for a significant percentage of the population. With a significant percentage of the population uninsured, they won't be seeking medical attention unless they are dying (and in some cases, not even then). For another big percentage of the population, they're underinsured (so won't be seeking medical help until it's too late to make a difference). And another percentage, who have reasonable insurance, they won't for medical attention immediately because they don't want spend the money.

    The US health system is a perfect storm for a pandemic to explode around, because a significant percentage of the population, perhaps even as much as 50%, won't immediately be able to or want to seek help. With a 30 day incubation cycle, the implications of that are horrifying.

    Another thing to bear in mind is the mortality rate is far from certain at the moment. Per Swiss Medical Weekly:

    At present, it is tempting to estimate the case fatality rate by dividing the number of known deaths by the number of confirmed cases. The resulting number, however, does not represent the true case fatality rate and might be off by orders of magnitude

    A precise estimate of the case fatality rate is therefore impossible at present.
    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-rate/

    Think about the implications of that statement for a second: "might be off by orders of magnitude." That's a direct quote from a prestigious peer-reviewed medical journal. Horrifying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I believe this is a rather appropriate time and thread for this. I find this analysis and breakdown to be in alignment with my perception of the issue. From 1:00 to 14:30 is all about the issue of the 2020 election, and the majority of it is specific to the Democratic primary (the first minute is an overview of what the video covers).


    I'm posting this rather than writing my own post since my policy preferences are fairly well-reflected by Robert Reich, and because I've not been actively participating in this thread so I'm out of the loop on some of the long-running arguments that may be present in this thread.
    This was an interesting watch. Reich's points on the 72/68 picks were, in my view, spot on, and he's right about the establishment/anti-establishment split in the voting population now being the important differentiator (particularly given that the US has no left wing party, but two right wing parties).

  19. #9879
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I know what your point is, I just disagree with it 100%.

    You are playing form a playbook that is obsolete and lost the last election to the worst and least qualified candidate in the modern history of the US who was running against the most moderate and qualified candidate in the modern history fo the US.

    Trump won because the independents are NOT MODERATE. They are fed up and want change. The only people crying about the need for moderates is the Dem establishment who is so moderate they are being pulled to the right by the extremist right of the current Republicans.

    The Dems have to stop playing appease everyone lawyer ball, go for the fucking win.

    It is batshit crazy to keep thinking the country wants a moderate when they voted for Trump against a moderate and are giving Sanders record numbers against Biden and other moderates. Its like when do you guys pay attention to what's actually happening?
    Look at the crazy radical Trump picked for a VP.

  20. #9880
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-rate/

    Think about the implications of that statement for a second: "might be off by orders of magnitude." That's a direct quote from a prestigious peer-reviewed medical journal. Horrifying.
    Like, the basic stuff is you don't look at "number of infected" and "number of dead", and work out a death rate that way. Coronavirus doesn't seem to work through its cycle all that quickly; some cases have taken more than 40 days between first symptoms, and death. So you need to figure a way to clear someone who's fought off the infection, and then compare those individuals to the number of dead, and that's the mortality rate. Those still in hospital after three weeks of treatment are not okay, and can't be counted on either side.

    People keep trying to dismiss this as "not a big deal", but it's a really big deal. It was potentially not huge if China had managed to contain it, but that's clearly not what happened, so now it's going global.

    The big hit's gonna come if it hits a country like India; densely packed population, public defecation is common practice, widespread poverty but still a lot of mobility.


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