Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Edge-]

Well, if establishment Democrats spent more time actually opposing Trump

Other than some regular order business like budgets and passing the updated NAFTA 1.01 USMCA...what haven't they opposed him on?

instead of making bank from super-PACs pretending to be against him

Ah, to live in your fictional world.

and spent less time trying to boycott progressivism within the USA

Honey, Justice Democrats are getting their butts kicked up and down the field. They're not boycotting anything, they're just largely ignoring an irrelevant group that's trying to crush Democratics political hopes by putting up no-chance progressives in purple districts.

they might actually get done what the people want: getting rid of Trump.

How you gonna do that with 53 Republicans in the Senate, again? How are you going to get 19 of them to flip? You need 66 to remove him.

This is political reality, the actual world. Not your fictional nonsense where you think you'll get something accomplished by posting 4chan memer videos.

[Rukh]

After all the shit talking Sanders supporters did to Warren, I wonder if most of them ended up going for Biden.

Not that they need them though right? 30% of the vote is enough to win the election and anyone who says otherwise is a mainstream media establishment shill!

[cubby]

Sigh. The man has major flaws and it is ok to talk about them. You are becoming his Sarah Huckabee Sanders. It is fucking mind boggling how you don't see this behavior your exhibiting as fear based silliness that plays exactly into what I've been saying is the flaw of Dems.

Sigh. The man is our candidate and making personal attacks on him doesn't help. You are becoming one of those rabid Bernie Bros. It is fucking mind boggling how you don't understand the difference between attacking policies and attacking personal quirks. You're playing right into the Trump/GOP playbook.

1. the hell we aren't.
2. And?
3. You keep saying they are different, and offering literally nothing to say how.
4. In what way?
5. Again, and?
6. How? Hillary was part of his cabinet too you know.
7. Who is that?

I can't have a serious conversation with you if you actually believe any of the drivel above. Everything I listed was 100% true. I listed seven solid reasons how it's different this time around, and you ignored them. Because of feels.

Come back with real rebuttals or just admit this is all about you not understanding that your feels do not equate to reality.

See this post:

lol no, Bernie is not entitled to votes on the merit of not being trump. Fuck off with this bullshit ultimatum.

This ^ is because you guys refuse to hear these people. You categorically dismiss them and their frustrations. So they make these statements. Woo them, instead of acting exactly like them and shitting on them for being upset.

You do know that's not me, right? I mean, how fucking through the rabbit hole are you that you think that's my statement or argument. And if you don't understand that it's either Biden or Trump in the General, then you're completely beyond help. If there is an ultimatum, it's that we all want Trump out. That's it. Nothing else matters. Why do you think it does?

[d00mGuArD]

And neither is the Democratic Party entitled to votes from people who they don't provide policies for.

Politics isn't a cult. Nobody has to vote for conservative Biden if they don't feel he is someone who will serve them.

That is true. People should vote for the people that represent them and what they believe in.
Don't let anyone tell you how to vote. Listen, agree, disagree, argue, and in the end make your own decisions.
Politicians are supposed to be representing us

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, all those thousands of Kings and Emperors that ruled in the thousands of years of history of mankind must be really relieved to hear that they can only ever be removed if there is 'Senate support' to remove them.

If you want to keep playing by the rules against an enemy who has shown multiple times already that they're above the rules or not following any themselves that is your own stupidity.

There were countless dictators who got removed through ad-hoc never-before-existing councils, who dared to take charge and control and told the current leader: "No, fuck off. We're in charge now. End of Story."

With a pandemic looming threatening to ruin your entire economy and country you might want to consider such adult options instead of leaving a manchild in charge. Not taking responsibility or not taking control in a time of need is just as irresponsible and childish as Trump himself. Stop "playing by the rules" like you're still in kindergarten.

That is just crazy talk about coups and revolutions. No one is even remotely interested in that.

[Rukh]

That is true. People should vote for the people that represent them and what they believe in.
Don't let anyone tell you how to vote. Listen, agree, disagree, argue, and in the end make your own decisions.
Politicians are supposed to be representing us

- - - Updated - - -



That is just crazy talk about coups and revolutions. No one is even remotely interested in that.

People can vote for whomever they want, but if someone refuses to vote in the hope that trump wins, they're not a progressive. period. By definition.

[breadisfunny]

I love that you think someone isn't going to win the General election. When you put that together, please take a look at your statement above. We'll wait.

how do you know that they will win it though? do you have some sort of crystal ball that foretells the outcome of the election?

[Edge-]

Wow, all those thousands of Kings and Emperors that ruled in the thousands of years of history of mankind must be really relieved to hear that they can only ever be removed if there is 'Senate support' to remove them.

Completely, 100%, totally irrelevant and unrelated. Great job. Stellar work.

You still haven't told me how you'd flip 19 Senators.

If you want to keep playing by the rules against an enemy who has shown multiple times already that they're above the rules or not following any themselves that is your own stupidity.

So what's your solution? Coup d'etat? How do you propose removing Trump if not by the legal methods currently in-place?

There were countless dictators who got removed through ad-hoc never-before-existing councils, who dared to take charge and control and told the current leader: "No, fuck off. We're in charge now. End of Story."

Cool, so lay your plan on me. How are you going to do it?

With a pandemic looming threatening to ruin your entire economy and country you might want to consider such adult options instead of leaving a manchild in charge. Not taking responsibility or not taking control in a time of need is just as irresponsible and childish as Trump himself. Stop "playing by the rules" like you're still in kindergarten.

Elections sadly have consequences, good or bad.

You're basically acting like a petulant child.

[cubby]

People can vote for whomever they want, but if someone refuses to vote in the hope that trump wins, they're not a progressive. period. By definition.

And people need to realize that not voting impacts almost as much as voting. People seem to think that one of the possible outcomes is that no one wins in November. Someone will win, and voting or not voting determines that. Deciding not to vote because the candidate who isn't a narcissistic man-child doesn't completely represent their interests is a dangerous level of ignorance.

- - - Updated - - -

how do you know that they will win it though? do you have some sort of crystal ball that foretells the outcome of the election?

That's my point. Someone WILL win. People seem to think that's not the case.

Edit to clarify: I don't know that Biden will win. But someone will. Not voting for Biden as a "progressive" is the same as voting for Trump.

[breadisfunny]

Exactly. I find it interesting that people are still pushing that narrative, and then claiming "our ilk will be the reason Trump wins again".

That should be the ONLY goal this November. Literally everything is secondary.

well it didn't take long for the "vote for biden or else" narrative in this thread to take hold. /sigh.

[d00mGuArD]

People can vote for whomever they want, but if someone refuses to vote in the hope that trump wins, they're not a progressive. period. By definition.

I will give you an example. Not because I agree in any way with the bernie bros. I really don't. But to explore their way of thinking.

In Greece, the KKE (Greek Communist Party - 15 of the 300 seats in the parliament) very often tells their voters to abstain from elections when they don't like either of the choices.
-That means they are helping someone win (like in the case of biden vs trump)
-That does not mean they are not communists if a rightwing guy wins. they are, by definition communists since they follow the lead of the people that represent them (the communist party).

[cubby]

well it didn't take long for the "vote for biden or else" narrative in this thread to take hold. /sigh.

How is that not a fact? How is that statement not 100% accurate. Come november it's either Biden or Trump. Let us know what you think is different.

(and the narrative has always been, vote (D) or else Trump wins, regardless of your primary choice - just fyi )

[Shadowferal]

Nah that was the DNC in 2016. Do you not keep up on what happens in politics?

If you continue your blame game then it's you that's stuck on repeat performance.
Get with it...it's not a game anymore. You and your ilk need to grow up and realize the hole your digging for everyone else.
The progressive movement is a thing that can continue...but it's not for children.

[breadisfunny]

How is that not a fact? How is that statement not 100% accurate. Come november it's either Biden or Trump. Let us know what you think is different.

(and the narrative has always been, vote (D) or else Trump wins, regardless of your primary choice - just fyi )

so i don't get a choice in the matter and it's basically a de facto dictatorship with one "choice" and one actual choice? because what i'm seeing in this thread is a lot of " you'll vote for this candidate and like it or else." isn't this supposed to be a republic based democracy where you get to vote for whoever? at least that's the impression i was under. all that's missing are the implied threats of violence to follow if you choose wrong.

[cubby]

so i don't get a choice in the matter and it's basically a de facto dictatorship with one "choice" and one actual choice? because what i'm seeing in this thread is a lot of " you'll vote for this candidate and like it or else." isn't this supposed to be a republic based democracy where you get to vote for whoever? at least that's the impression i was under. all that's missing are the implied threats of violence to follow if you choose wrong.

You might be seeing that particular narrative, but I'm certainly not saying it. You don't have to like it at all. But the facts are quite simple. There are only two choices in november. If you don't vote for Biden, Trump wins. Make your choices accordingly.

[Shadowferal]

Biden needs to appeal to progressives if he wins the nomination or he will NOT receive / deserve their vote. End of story.

Then maybe Sanders' supporters should stop attacking Warren
As I've posted earlier, I'd love to see a Biden/Warren ticket.

[Edge-]

Biden needs to appeal to progressives if he wins the nomination or he will NOT receive / deserve their vote. End of story.

It's looking increasingly likely, failing him having a cognitive meltdown during the debates.

And I agree. I fully expect him to shift leftward a bit like Hillary did when she got the nomination, adopting some compromise versions of Sanders policies. If he doesn't, he hasn't earned Sanders supporters votes.

This doesn't mean he'll suddenly be on the M4A train though. This is about compromise here.

[cubby]

Biden needs to appeal to progressives if he wins the nomination or he will NOT receive / deserve their vote. End of story.

Or else the other guy will appeal to progressives?

Your adorably illogical ultimatums fall on deaf ears in the same way the noise from a toddlers room is usually ignored.

The only thing that matters is getting Trump out of office. Voting for Biden works towards that goal. Not voting for Biden works against that goal. So let me make this simple for you. These questions have the same answer:

Do you want Trump in office?
Should I not vote for Biden in November because he doesn't fully represent my opinions?

[Grapemask]

It's looking increasingly likely, failing him having a cognitive meltdown during the debates.

And I agree. I fully expect him to shift leftward a bit like Hillary did when she got the nomination, adopting some compromise versions of Sanders policies. If he doesn't, he hasn't earned Sanders supporters votes.

This doesn't mean he'll suddenly be on the M4A train though. This is about compromise here.

The Daily Show had a pretty good take on Sanders' last press conference, which was that it sounded less like an appeal to voters to vote for him and more like an appeal to Biden to adopt some of his platform. And that's probably exactly why this next debate is needed. It's not about talking to the voters. It's about talking to Biden and convincing him that he needs to lean a little more left.

[Rukh]

I will give you an example. Not because I agree in any way with the bernie bros. I really don't. But to explore their way of thinking.

In Greece, the KKE (Greek Communist Party - 15 of the 300 seats in the parliament) very often tells their voters to abstain from elections when they don't like either of the choices.
-That means they are helping someone win (like in the case of biden vs trump)
-That does not mean they are not communists if a rightwing guy wins. they are, by definition communists since they follow the lead of the people that represent them (the communist party).

If you purposely make the rightwing guy win, you're not a communist. Again, by definition. You are acting in a way that creates change towards a right-wing government with right-wing policies. You might call yourself a communist, but it's a lie.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? Warren is an absolute fraud.

If you want to know why she is a fraud there is a video explaining it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJGSMDjI7lk

People like you are why warren supporters went for Biden. You're killing your movement.

Congratulations!

[cubby]

The Daily Show had a pretty good take on Sanders' last press conference, which was that it sounded less like an appeal to voters to vote for him and more like an appeal to Biden to adopt some of his platform. And that's probably exactly why this next debate is needed. It's not about talking to the voters. It's about talking to Biden and convincing him that he needs to lean a little more left.

A debate at this point will only hurt Biden's image - either from ignorantly labeled "gaffe's" or Bernie looking to score points. Sanders can go to Biden privately and discuss policy agendas. A debate is not needed.