Keeping retail's reporting and auto-squelch system in Classic is a terrible decision

[scata444]

This thread can be summarized as half of people are still too obtuse to realize the /ignore function exists. They want the power to exert draconian punishments and censor anyone they disagree with in-game, while disregarding the myriad of ways in which auto-squelch will be abused non-stop simply as collateral damage.

[Xecks]

This thread can be summarized as half of people are still too obtuse to realize the /ignore function exists. They want the power to exert draconian punishments and censor anyone they disagree with in-game, while disregarding the myriad of ways in which auto-squelch will be abused non-stop simply as collateral damage.

completely agree. its the way things are nowadays. sad.

[Tweedzz]

This thread can be summarized as half of people are still too obtuse to realize the /ignore function exists. They want the power to exert draconian punishments and censor anyone they disagree with in-game, while disregarding the myriad of ways in which auto-squelch will be abused non-stop simply as collateral damage

Well Ron, I agree that an completely automated system is a bad idea, but if a player is truly a problem then /ignore is simply not enough. There needs to be the ability to report people but there also needs to be a human that reviews reports.

[scata444]

Well Ron, I agree that an completely automated system is a bad idea, but if a player is truly a problem then /ignore is simply not enough. There needs to be the ability to report people but there also needs to be a human that reviews reports.

Vanilla was all about community and communication. If auto-squelch is introduced people aren't even going to want to talk anymore for fear of offending someone and being squelched. It's a form of self-censorship and has a psychological effect on every player.

[Tumile]

Trash talking is for children (Light-hearted "trash talking" is fine, but I doubt this is what you mean). Racist and hateful jokes are for horrible people. Your take is bad and you should feel bad.

People who can't take a joke, or get offended at a combination of letters regardless of context or intent (like yourself) are lesser humans and should be treated like cattle, for experimentation to further medical science for the rest of the population with an IQ above 50 (unlike yourself)

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, and so is getting silenced/suspended/banned when you get caught doing it.

You don't need to be a horrible human being to "trash talk". No one gets actioned for "trash talk", it happens because you where saying things you would never say in public and are only doing so with the barrier of anonymity so guess why it's policed in online games?

What are you talking about, people get banned, suspenned, silenced, so on for all sort of shit they would most definitely say IRL. I tell racist,and misogynistic jokes all the time IRL, I don't in video games anymore. I generally just don't speak unless it's required, you never know what kind of mentally fragile snow flake is on the other side.

Trash talk happens IRL just as much as it does online, Games are just generally fairly competitive in a multiplayer setting. which generally encourages trash talk more, just like if you were on the football pitch, or on a basket court. some dick screening a bit too aggresively one of too things happen, it works, I'm on my ass, and I'm throwing all sort of slurs his way, or It doesn't work, he'll be on his ass, and he'll be throwing slurs my way instead.

Just because you're a bubble wrapped white knight with a foam sword doesn't mean you know shit about real life. go out and experience it for once in your life before you start fart blasting us with the most random nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

Sometimes I wish I could punch people through monitor. Stupid kids (or sometimes adults with IQ of a cockroach) behaving like assholes because of anonymity, saying things that in real conversation would get them punched in face or worse.

Instead, we have reporting. Good enough.

Hah, as if someone like you would ever be the first to throw a punch, and if u were u would be tasting the floor real quick, Someone with absolutely no backbone, and who is so mentally fragile they get that worked up over some random pleb saying some random shit on the internet? what a fucking joke you are. move along poser.

- - - Updated - - -

There are two scenarios.

Scenario A:
1. Player says or does something horrible
2. People report him and he gets a temporary chat ban
3. A GM reviews the report and determine it to be in favor of the reporters and issues a harsher permanent punishment

Scenario B:
1. Player says or does something that pisses someone else off
2. People report him on instruction by that player and a temporary chat ban is issued
3. A GM reviews the report and determine it to be bogus, everyone who has taken part in the false report gets a strike on their account and those that have previous strikes get a harsh permanent punishment

Seems like a win to me. Either way toxic players will be removed from the game.

A GM Does not review that Silence, and or Ban unless the player inquires about the ban, which depending can take as long if not longer than the ban itself.

Personally i was boosting Guildies in arena at BFA launch to get them 2.1k gear for uldir release, some germans were doing the same, except for money. Me farming them costs them money as its some pretty nice dollar dollar bills early on in an expansion for them. they have an entire german network of boosters that I'm somewhat familiar with, and it's some crazy shit. They all report me mid game to get me silenced, which kicks u off ur account. I lose the game, they win, This happened 2 times, I inquired about it, the GM said "Yep, our bad, I'll fix it for you real quick" he refused to give anymore information than that.

so far this has cost me 2 wins, and taken about 1 hour of my time to sort out, which allows them to not meet me for that 1 hour I was kept busy. They do it again, 3rd time, I get auto banned for 48 hours. this was on BFA launch, at 2 AM. I am in a hardcore top 20 world raiding guild, This would most likely cost me my raid spot. It takes me 16 hours to get in contact with a GM, which was only because I could pull some strings and a friend knew a guy who knew a guy, It took them over 30 hours to reply to me normally. I had done nothing wrong, the system got abused, Because it does NOT get reviewed automatically. this is not the first time.

Anyone who has tried playing wow on a high level in any aspect, wether it's raiding, Boosting, or PVP will have loads of stories like this, I have quite a few more, this is just the most recent. I'm not saying I'm not what YOU would consider a toxic player, but I don't talk ingame, and I don't play with people like you, you will never see me, you will never hear me, I will never have an impact on your gameplay. And it ain't just me, and it ain't just once or twice it has happened. It's a system that is very prone to abuse, and it makes it absolute hell if your just below the point where u become "Internet famous" so devs will grant your account immunity, and you're not some random irrelevant lowbob, that no one has any reason to fuck with.

I used to boost for a german guy who lived off wow, making quite a lot of money every month. he had over 50 wow accounts so he could literally spam report people on his own. that was the only reason, because it was profitable for him to spend that money every month, to silence competition, and also get them kicked off their account mid boost etc.

So no, it is not a Win Win, and you shouldn't assume you know how the system works before looking into it.

[lurkerstrike]

long time lurker making an account just to pop in and say LOL. Tumile, you're a hero for telling these softies how it is but you're going to get reported out of existence for it. don't bother trying to convince any of them of anything; if lurking here occasionally has taught me anything, it's that you won't find a greater hive of anime chugging anthropomorphic walking and talking pussies anywhere else on the web outside of social media sites. half of them had my little pony avatars until last year, i mean jesus christ.

tl;dr - don't engage philosophically with soft-minded idiots.

[Delana]

No thanks, I prefer an easy and quick way of reporting and eliminating assholes. Some things ARE better off changed and this is one of them.

You know so it won't be "part of online gaming".

- - - Updated - - -

Heck, this "part of online gaming" is a thing exactly because in past game developers skimped on tools like this to contain assholes, what happens now is desperately trying to catch up and fix mistakes of the past.

If these tools would be integral part of games 2 decades ago, we would not have this mess as "part of online gaming" today.

Kind of a boring virtual world without any assholes, or anyone saying anything off-color. Some people, myself included, like the less curated experience.

[Apexis]

This thread here is just one of the many examples of why Classic will literally be no better than retail is from a community standpoint. I simply can't wait for the legions of people making thread on the level of toxic behavior that is taking place in Classic and there will be many. This notion that the servers and the entire community will be able to control the bulk of nonsense that has taken place over the years in retail, in Classic is simply a pipe dream from the people that believe they are going to regain the same experience they once had, which is another pipe dream as well. By the looks of things, there are going to be boat loads of addons and mods, something that was largely not in Vanilla. There are going to be things that did not rear there ugly head in Vanilla that will simply not be able to be stopped from happening that have been taking place in retail over its existence. All the bad people and habits will be in Classic, though unlike Vanilla, there will be far more of both. The gaming community as whole and across the board a cesspool and what one experience from a community in 2004 is simply not going to be the same experience, because people like the OP will be riddled through the game on a massive level.

[lappee]

You know what else used to be a part of life? Having black people use separate bathrooms, drinking fountains, and sitting in different sections. Using derogatory words every day to describe someone’s ethnicity. Per the OP, since it’s part of life those things never should have changed.

More like if someone was to make a simulation of how life used to be, then yeah it should be exactly as it was - changing anything would be denying the truth, altering history etc. things that are normally considered bad.

Classic should be Vanilla

[oplawlz]

One of the best parts of this forum is the crying of people with the emotional control of a rabid chimp that have been banned or suspended. Kudos to bliz for this.

[scata444]

This thread here is just one of the many examples of why Classic will literally be no better than retail is from a community standpoint. I simply can't wait for the legions of people making thread on the level of toxic behavior that is taking place in Classic and there will be many. This notion that the servers and the entire community will be able to control the bulk of nonsense that has taken place over the years in retail, in Classic is simply a pipe dream from the people that believe they are going to regain the same experience they once had, which is another pipe dream as well. By the looks of things, there are going to be boat loads of addons and mods, something that was largely not in Vanilla. There are going to be things that did not rear there ugly head in Vanilla that will simply not be able to be stopped from happening that have been taking place in retail over its existence. All the bad people and habits will be in Classic, though unlike Vanilla, there will be far more of both. The gaming community as whole and across the board a cesspool and what one experience from a community in 2004 is simply not going to be the same experience, because people like the OP will be riddled through the game on a massive level.

Actually Vanilla was great because it had far less over-sensitive cupcakes like you who need a tell-mommy report button. Players who were truly harassing others had their cases investigated by GMs before action was taken. And yes, there were tranny jokes in Barrens chat and guess what? Many laughed and the rest didn't give a shit.

[Annelie]

This thread can be summarized as half of people are still too obtuse to realize the /ignore function exists. They want the power to exert draconian punishments and censor anyone they disagree with in-game, while disregarding the myriad of ways in which auto-squelch will be abused non-stop simply as collateral damage.

Going for Rank 14, getting banned the week you will hit rank 14 because the second in line did not do well enough that week. Great times.

[Yoshingo]

This thread can be summarized as half of people are still too obtuse to realize the /ignore function exists. They want the power to exert draconian punishments and censor anyone they disagree with in-game, while disregarding the myriad of ways in which auto-squelch will be abused non-stop simply as collateral damage.

Outrage monger posts an outrage video! LE GASP!

Remember how FF14 was going to be a SJW nightmare because they added more slurs onto its forbidden topics list in chat? You know, like all the people who are now saying this will ruin Classic, did? And then it didn't?

It's almost like you're all just fucking butthurt that you can't be a bigot in chat without being punished. Resulting in completely bullshit strawmans like, "IMA GUNNA BE BANNED BY THE PVP RANK ABOVE ME BECAUSE IM ABOUT TO SURPASS THEM!" and other complete laughable nonsense.

It's been 15 years.

Grow up already.

[Alkizon]

scata444
Scenario B doesn't happen and it's arguable that scenario A doesn't either because GM's don't investigate each report anymore.

Unfortunately, everything that I heard and know, speaks rather for this ^ version. I said this before, I'll quote it now:

Naturally, hype around Classic and its “survival conditions” may help a little in favorable outcome, but everything will depend on how much devs succeed in authenticating experience = playing conditions. All conversations and work will be empty without them. Moreover, these aren't just loud words, because even such trifle as chat moderation rules can be important, since is main mechanism of communication = valid condition (illogical/cheat-able/brutal conditions leads to desire for attackers to take advantage of them, and - to avoid of using for respectable people).

Kralljin
Communication sometimes just happened

Well, it doesn't refute expressed views, rather complements them. I don't see much controversy, only that someone felt need (=demand) for communication (couldn't find it with decent eng subs, sorry) so it just has happened. Secondary cause isn't important here, conditions have contributed to this.

There is black list and filters for majority of what is happening, which has long been time to expand for remove need in resorting use of addons. Simple and neat. In fact, for the most part, there were only “spammers” in my black list (until time of total moderation philosophy), who didn't say anything specifically bad, but simply littered chat. And, you know, I didn't feel any problems with rest stuff, and there was no occasion for any abuse of “self-regulation”. It may be worth blaming game design changes, and not "bees" flew to "honey"? I'm for freedom of speech, I'm against mechanic that can be used by “bandits” for their own purposes. I understand that USA is for the most with weapons legalizing... apparently, but no. Leave opportunity for everyone to solve it on their own, without mass "blind" automation.

Acquaintance, who recently used 3 free days just to log in and talk with people, who dropped out of access, told me: everything looks dead, everyone is “puffing at work”, they are in a hurry somewhere, only a couple of people were boldly talk in general chat, who, as it turned out, were in game for the same action. It's terrible, I don't want this, and I have my own filters for "garbage", that it, filters are the only moderator’s available weapon for such places of network, which, however, also shouldn't be mindlessly and unduly abused. This is like white noise for most old people, like weapon against monotonous high-frequency sound for people with inner ear problems. And this is twice more relevant for Classics because of chat being used much more intensive ther. No automation!

ps. Do you think, they thought about care on players, when they made this up? Answer is obvious. No of course, such mechanism is just cheaper. That's all. Just money.

Bildur
On one hand I agree that "polical correctness" has gone a bit too far these days - but on the other I read "I was a jerk back in vanilla and I wanna be a jerk in classic". As I've often had to remind people: Freedom of speach is not Freedom to be a jerk. Freedom of speach comes with responsibilites ... and if you (as a "general you") doesn't realize that, then Daddy Blizzard or Daddy sociaty has to step in and teach you

You also have filters and blacklist (which completely subordinate to your decision, without automation and, in fact, doesn't cancel reports' system in case someone decided to be “very bad” ...and unreasonably “overly suspicious” too). That is, you're independently able to answer for what you want to read/write and what you don't want (because only such condition doesn't violate freedom of speech and respect your own rights) and people have right to choose to be jerks and get into your black list, or not to be and prudently and politely continue to communicate with rest of community. You have right to read/write everything or not to (no one bothers you, you aren't forced, unlike in automated system), and your responsibility just in right choice for yourself (this is what retail has lost), responsibility for your behavior in specific conditions, and not shifting such decision to someone above, not in desire to give weapons to every comer, regardless of how it will be used by them. Prerequisite for classical social regulation was passive protection, not intervention.

ps. I understand that setting up advanced filters and blacklist moderating (on "not develop" of which they saved some $) will require some kind of brain cells' work, but, as I said:

I don't consider "by default" people as idiots, and I believe in their conscious and meaningful decisions.

Also this.

[scata444]

Outrage monger posts an outrage video! LE GASP!

Remember how FF14 was going to be a SJW nightmare because they added more slurs onto its forbidden topics list in chat? You know, like all the people who are now saying this will ruin Classic, did? And then it didn't?

It's almost like you're all just fucking butthurt that you can't be a bigot in chat without being punished. Resulting in completely bullshit strawmans like, "IMA GUNNA BE BANNED BY THE PVP RANK ABOVE ME BECAUSE IM ABOUT TO SURPASS THEM!" and other complete laughable nonsense.

It's been 15 years.

Grow up already.

This isn't about "ruining" Classic, which is a subjective term. This is about providing an authentic Vanilla experience which they promised. A big part of that experience is open communication going on everywhere and fostering a sense of community. Auto-squelch is one of the biggest differences between retail and Vanilla, but surely it will make the retail tourists happy.

[Yoshingo]

This is about providing an authentic Vanilla experience which they promised. A big part of that experience is open communication going on everywhere and fostering a sense of community.

The laughable notion that you're trying to push insisting that people being able to scream nigger and faggot at each other without being punished for it to have an "authentic Vanilla experience" is as pathetically desperate as it is transparent.

I'm sure /b/ will have what you're looking for: people who act like jr high students using slurs. Meanwhile all of us normal and well adjusted adults will enjoy not seeing your garbage.

Love, a Vanilla veteran.

[Bildur]

I was there on day one back in 2004. One of the things that made Vanilla so great was the community, BOTH the good and bad. People didn't walk on eggshells as much back then, which means that yes there was trash-talking and general shenanigans in general chat but it was hugely entertaining while leveling. There may have even been (*gasp*) a few tranny jokes in general chat. The rivalries in-game which spilled over to the realm forums were epic. "Barrens chat" became legendary for a reason. I don't think I would have made it through the long leveling process without the entertainment in general chat. If people didn't like a player they simply put them on ignore and guess what, they survived. The only way you could get suspended was for swearing, which went far enough. I feel like this is another mistake Blizzard is making in their attempts to modernize Classic and make it as boring as retail

On one hand I agree that "polical correctness" has gone a bit too far these days - but on the other I read "I was a jerk back in vanilla and I wanna be a jerk in classic". As I've often had to remind people: Freedom of speach is not Freedom to be a jerk. Freedom of speach comes with responsibilites ... and if you (as a "general you") doesn't realize that, then Daddy Blizzard or Daddy sociaty has to step in and teach you

[scata444]

To the dimwits who think no one abuses this sytem in retail, people in retail are getting auto-squelched by competitors for selling boosting services for "too cheap". The first GM upheld the ban with an automated response, but only when it was appealed for a second time did another GM remove it. When the GM removed their squelch hours or days later and they tried selling again, they simply get squelched again by the same people. This is so effed up and would be enough to make me quit.

[Yoshingo]

Anything to defend people screaming nigger and faggot in chat, huh?

We all know what you're doing, btw.

[Alkizon]

On one hand I agree that "polical correctness" has gone a bit too far these days - but on the other I read "I was a jerk back in vanilla and I wanna be a jerk in classic". As I've often had to remind people: Freedom of speach is not Freedom to be a jerk. Freedom of speach comes with responsibilites ... and if you (as a "general you") doesn't realize that, then Daddy Blizzard or Daddy sociaty has to step in and teach you

You also have filters and blacklist (which completely subordinate to your decision, without automation and, in fact, doesn't cancel reports' system in case someone decided to be “very bad” ...and unreasonably “overly suspicious” too). That is, you're independently able to answer for what you want to read/write and what you don't want (because only such condition doesn't violate freedom of speech and respect your own rights) and people have right to choose to be jerks and get into your black list, or not to be and prudently and politely continue to communicate with rest of community. You have right to read/write everything or not to (no one bothers you, you aren't forced, unlike in automated system), and your responsibility just in right choice for yourself (this is what retail has lost), responsibility for your behavior in specific conditions, and not shifting such decision to someone above, not in desire to give weapons to every comer, regardless of how it will be used by them. Prerequisite for classical social regulation was passive protection, not intervention.

ps. I understand that setting up advanced filters and blacklist moderating (on "not develop" of which they saved some $) will require some kind of brain cells' work, but, as I said:

I don't consider "by default" people as idiots, and I believe in their conscious and meaningful decisions.