View Poll Results: Who are you rooting for to claim QUEEN AZSHARA?

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  • Method [EU]

    325 54.71%
  • Limit [US]

    176 29.63%
  • Big Dumb Guild [US]

    6 1.01%
  • ANY ALLIANCE GUILD

    49 8.25%
  • OTHER

    38 6.40%
  1. #2921
    Field Marshal Kers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I mean Limit didn't even bother to try it, maybe because they were too deep in but still.
    Yeah they were in too deep. Cutting a healer or moving BL to a different phase COMPLETELY changes your whole strategy (timings, cooldowns, positioning, weakauras, ....). It's basically starting all over again, they couldn't do that.

  2. #2922
    Fluffy Kitten -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I mean Limit didn't even bother to try it, maybe because they were too deep in but still.
    It's mostly that. It's not really as simple as just dropping a healer. It means they need to re-work a lot of timings and in a lot of ways re-progress.

  3. #2923
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    It's kind of the same story as Jaina. They are using the much safer strat but that doesn't win you a WF. It seems like the meta, unless Blizzard changes things up, is to always focus on burning the boss in the last phase.
    That's just it. It's entirely possible for Blizzard to design an encounter that essentially becomes impossible without additional healers. P4 wasn't tested on the PTR so nobody could have predicted whether that was a factor. If that were the case, it's very real Method would be looking like idiots right about now while everybody would be singing praises for Limit essentially "outplaying" Method. There really can't be a "meta" when you're talking about unknown encounter territory.

  4. #2924
    How could you possibly assume that lusting the easiest phase was ever the right play

  5. #2925
    Let's be real, having Josh is like have 2 healers

  6. #2926
    I am Murloc! hellhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    How could you possibly assume that lusting the easiest phase was ever the right play
    If the add spawns before the transition, it's pretty much a guaranteed wipe. Going 3 healers into the second phase without BL guarantees the add spawning. In a parallel universe, Limit's decision might have been the right call. But p4 is just too much boss hp to burn to not have lust on.

  7. #2927
    I'm aware. They had to stop dps the majority of pulls to stop from pushing too early, though. Part of the reason Method is so successful is because how flexible they are.

    Limit should have swapped to 2 healers as soon as they saw methods progression in phase 4. But instead they stuck to their ego and continued to use a strat that doesn't work. There really is no excuse for this

  8. #2928
    Fluffy Kitten -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    How could you possibly assume that lusting the easiest phase was ever the right play
    It's only the easiest phase because they were lusting it. Or, in the case of Method, 2 healing it with 1 healer essentially focusing on damage anyway.

    If that indomitable add spawns it's game over.

  9. #2929
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    If the add spawns before the transition, it's pretty much a guaranteed wipe. Going 3 healers into the second phase without BL guarantees the add spawning. In a parallel universe, Limit's decision might have been the right call. But p4 is just too much boss hp to burn to not have lust on.
    Perhaps Limit was banking on there being another phase? Who knows. Hindsight is 20/20. WF is already over, nobody will really give two shits about what motivated guilds to use the strats they did, they're only going to remember who got it first. Which kind of sucks.

  10. #2930
    However, it is unlikely that limits healers are good enough to 2 heal. Method had a comp with a ton of offhealing as well. They're just miles ahead in planning.

  11. #2931
    Where's the guy who kept making the limit world first boss kill threads at?

  12. #2932
    Fluffy Kitten -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    Limit should have swapped to 2 healers as soon as they saw methods progression in phase 4. But instead they stuck to their ego and continued to use a strat that doesn't work. There really is no excuse for this
    It's not ego...every other guild besides Method is 3-healing because it's safer. Most guilds moving forward will use the 3-heal strat.

    Method's strategy was far, far less consistent. But when they did get to P4 the extra DPS let them burn through and ignore a mechanic (console).

  13. #2933
    How did they know that they have to 2 heal it from the very first pulls already. These guys are simply amazing.

  14. #2934
    Wheres the guy who wanted to eat a shoe if Method 2 heal it?

  15. #2935
    Fluffy Kitten -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    How did they know that they have to 2 heal it from the very first pulls already. These guys are simply amazing.
    Risk vs reward.

    The fight is low on healing requirements. Since you have the hp debuff the fight doesn't have high consistent raid damage. It's about damage in bursts. So dropping as many healers as you can is obvious and I have no doubt most guilds thought about it and came to the conclusion that 3 is the most comfortable. Method just took it one step further, banking on being able to get perfect pulls and burning the last phase while ignoring some mechanics. Kind of similar again to how they approached Jaina.

    It's also why their MDI team is so strong. They will take risks and commit to them.

  16. #2936
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    Limit should have swapped to 2 healers as soon as they saw methods progression in phase 4. But instead they stuck to their ego and continued to use a strat that doesn't work. There really is no excuse for this
    Wasn't ego at all, Limit talked about how for Jaina one of their biggest mistakes was flip flopping between strategies and not sticking it out. They stuck with their strategy this time and still got decently close to a kill. Unfortunately for them and everyone else three healing the boss got nerfed in a way that benefited Methods strategy more.

  17. #2937
    Well, GZ Method. But if we take the whole raid into account it's really hard to say who is the best performer overall.

    Yes, Method killed Queen Azshara first, but Limit got to last phase pre nerf. Method wasn't even close at getting into last phase pre nerf.
    Limit killed Za'qul 26h prior to Method, thats big plus in points if you ask me.

    All in all I think the end result is pretty much tie between Method and Limit if you ask me. Now let's cheer up the Limit to finish this boss!

  18. #2938
    Quote Originally Posted by Varjo410 View Post
    It's always the same.
    US: EU is trash.
    EU: US is trash.
    *Method wins*
    Good prediction

  19. #2939
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    It's not ego...every other guild besides Method is 3-healing because it's safer. Most guilds moving forward will use the 3-heal strat.

    Method's strategy was far, far less consistent. But when they did get to P4 the extra DPS let them burn through and ignore a mechanic (console).
    Why do you say things like methods strat is less consistent? Can you prove that?

    This is so infantile. You're reducing these strategies to concepts that you easily understand. It's not as easy as weighing pros and cons with strategies

    "Limit had a more consistent strat"
    "Method had a risky gamble strat that paid off"

    These statements reduce the complexity of the situation. The only reason you're doing this is because you're looking to reduce the variables of this race into words that you and other people easily understand. It's not really not that simple. When really the bottom line is:

    "Limit used a strat that won't work for several weeks or until the boss gets nerfed"
    "Method used a strat that employed 2 healers that allowed them to more quickly complete the final phase of the fight"

    Flipping back and forth between the streams for the last 48 hours, it did not occur to me that methods strat was more volatile. They had plenty of offhealing to make up for the 3rd healer, and Josh and zaelia are just light-years ahead of their limit counterparts. And this is from someone with friends in limit

  20. #2940
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranged View Post
    Good prediction
    The funny thing is that even the MDI Method won!

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