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  1. #41
    You don't need LoS to kill the void adds. This just shows that people aren't used to the affix yet.

    Firstly it's been nerfed so the stacking dmg is now on players when they get hit, not on the mob.

    But even before that, you can survive the first 2 casts without being oneshotted. The first cast took about 50% of my HP without fortitude. The second cast would take 75%, the third cast would probably be fatal without a good defensive damage reduction cooldown. You can simply zerg the void mobs down before their damage becomes unmanageable.

    Also their cast is a 60 yard range so if they are surrounded by other trash, you can pull the trash 60+ yds away from the emissary. The emissary travels realllly slowly due to her chain-casts so you can easily kill the pack safely out of her range, then finish her off last.
    Prior to today's hotfix this was still awkward as she'd gain her max 5 stacks dmg buff on her cast so only ranged would be able to run in between casts to shoot her. Now that the debuff goes on the players instead you'll be able to run in with 0 stacks and zerg her as I mentioned above.

    So much in WoW is actually a lot easier than people think if they just stop, question the mechanics and develop a smart strategy rather than just assuming they're fucked.
    Last edited by Will; 2019-07-12 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #42
    right now i'm seeing a lot of LoSing going on yeah. but i think in a few weeks that with some gear and experience the default tactic will become to just burst down the add.


    i do have my concerns for the viablity of melee on high keys though, especially ones without strong defensives, but time will tell.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    But it isn't. 7 yards a second is 63 yards for 10 seconds. Convert that to 100m dash then it is 15.9 sec per 100m. Yeah that is BS. Lets have a look at my speed. 11.11 sec. Whats more likely? Chubs McChubs speed for your toon or as a fit super warrior (or mage or whatever) being able to run 10 yards in 1 sec.
    7x10 is still 70. And default 100% speed is 7y/m per second. Your speed in a dash is irrelevant because your character isn't doing a dash, they're doing a speed they can keep up long-term.

  4. #44
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Because the add had too much hp (fortified I guess) or because your group didn't have dps cds available to burn down the add?
    Not having CDs up sounds like ltp issue to be fair. It always dumbfounds me when a DH pops meta at start and everyone else pops their CDs to kill packs in 4-6 seconds, only to hit a soft wall of everyone not having CDs up to deal with actually hard packs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    right now i'm seeing a lot of LoSing going on yeah. but i think in a few weeks that with some gear and experience the default tactic will become to just burst down the add.


    i do have my concerns for the viablity of melee on high keys though, especially ones without strong defensives, but time will tell.
    A problem may be that 2/5 players go for LoS, and 3/5 players want to burst down the add, so you end up with not enough DPS. It's easily fixed by /i "please don't los void adds, just burst them k?"
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Hurr durr more than 1 melee = automatic deplete

    https://i.ibb.co/sKVY5JG/Capture.jpg
    While I don't agree with the op, hes talking about temple which doesn't appear to be listed in what you have linked. Please refrain from hurr durr in the future.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    I just did a +10 temple and there is a point in between the first and 2nd boss where bringing more than 1 melee would render your key depleted.

    I'm sure there are more dungeons like this where the void add is in a place where you can't quickly LoS her 10 second 60 yard cast.

    The void add is absolutely ridiculous, especially when placed in areas with little to no LoS.

    Edit - Cast ranged is believed to be 60 yards
    lol its simply imposible to deplete a key because of ONE void add that causes 1-2 wipes maybe,as their hp doesnt reset,i have done plenty 10 keys with +2 with multiple group wipes,unless your gear is rly rly low for a 10 key thats never going to be a problem

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    While I don't agree with the op, hes talking about temple which doesn't appear to be listed in what you have linked. Please refrain from hurr durr in the future.
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...rboards-strict

    (as of my posting)
    6/10 double melee
    2/10 triple melee
    2/10 double ranged

    OP was clearly written as an emotional response to literally ONE +10 he attempted. it's a qq blog post on day 1 of a brand new affix. it's very much a hurr durr post.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I can understand how you cant see a way to do it. It is a L2P issue. When you can L2P then you will see.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But it isn't. 7 yards a second is 63 yards for 10 seconds. Convert that to 100m dash then it is 15.9 sec per 100m. Yeah that is BS. Lets have a look at my speed. 11.11 sec. Whats more likely? Chubs McChubs speed for your toon or as a fit super warrior (or mage or whatever) being able to run 10 yards in 1 sec.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which makes it a L2P issue. Glad that other people are also onboard.


    https://i.gyazo.com/532e9b86438e1a66...bc06a0bb17.png


    Yikes.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...rboards-strict

    (as of my posting)
    6/10 double melee
    2/10 triple melee
    2/10 double ranged

    OP was clearly written as an emotional response to literally ONE +10 he attempted. it's a qq blog post on day 1 of a brand new affix. it's very much a hurr durr post.
    It's early in the season but if we look on all dungeons top runs, we see that it looks like season 2 compositions, out of the top 20 runs, containing +15, +16 and +17 in time:

    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...rboards-strict

    Almost all have protection warrior, we have 19 protection warriors.
    All of them use resto druid healer, we have 20 resto druids.
    Rogues are still popular, we have 15 runs with double rogue.
    Melee is still a good choice. In the top 20, all runs contains at least two melee, 11 of them with double melee, and 9 with triple melee.

  10. #50
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    Dunno man, I'm a rogue and I feint the first cast and then cloak the second so by the time a third cast comes off (If at all) I have feint up again. Idk how other melee are coping but rogues are fine for it.

  11. #51
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    The community exaggerating as always.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by warpath2k View Post
    Is there a source for this or just? If Rogues and DH's are top picks, that leaves 1 spot for a ranged? Again I'd find this hard to agree with. Rogues are used as outlaw is good but the skips are better. IMO any comp is viable for 15+ without super effort. Its only the top % speed runs a certain set up is needed.

    If I recall monks were used a lot in the m+ tournaments.
    They're going to be picked as top and only melee classes for any kind of higher m+ keys and when we're not talking about "competitive" or "tryhard" runs then try queing as none "in meta" melee- it's 2h of declines for mediocre keys even with pretty decent sub 2k score and nearly max ilvl gear. Been there in s1 as a dps warrior, it's no fun place. Any comp is viable, but when community perception is what it is some classes get really hard time finding a party and now take a look at beguiling, which requires CC of all sorts and defensive CDs and a dps warrior who has none of those. It also helps to have a huge ST burst - warriors have none atm. Also monks were used in s2 because 2 rogue meta was the clear winner with their tottaly fucked up AoE and above avg ST, it was a walking 5% dmg buff to rogues with decent AoE and useful CC (AoE stun, paralyze, etc.).

    It's once again a "get fucked" card for dps classes like warrior/ww/dk and "enjoy your instant invite" card supported by "have fun" card for fucking rogues. I'm honestly tired of this crap, which apparently is never going to be balanced. Same thing applies to both competitive and casual or whatever type of gameplay, you can pick and choose, try really hard to find a couple example against this statement but in the end the vast majority of evidence supports it. You just don't see it that much when you play the fotm classes.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime92 View Post
    It also helps to have a huge ST burst - warriors have none atm.
    Every class and spec has ridiculous burst now with the M+ essence and the punchcard trinket. So this shouldn't be an issue (in theory). But yes, the community's perception (and the community as a whole) is complete shit in this game.

    I have seen idiots invite the super meta comp of double rogue dh, and then don't even use shroud once, but instead wipe to boss mechanics meant to be dealt by ranged.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    Dunno man, I'm a rogue and I feint the first cast and then cloak the second so by the time a third cast comes off (If at all) I have feint up again. Idk how other melee are coping but rogues are fine for it.
    This is probably where the big issue lies, and that's CDs/utilities. The only thing that really changed this season is the seasonal affix... and while that may seem like a "duh!" statement, it's focuses in on why the meta comp from last season probably won't change much if at all. Reaping was basically an AoE zerg fest, and while Outlaw rogues could destroy them the Reaping mobs themselves generally weren't dangerous at all if handled correctly. If you can pull a boss along with an entire Reaping wave, that should underscore how trivial the season affix really could be. The point is that Outlaw rogues were/are good throughout the entire dungeon, with consistent cleave action. With some of the essences at play, everyone can potentially have a burst AoE move... but rogues can, too, on top of what they already have.

    Anyways, when it comes to the Beguilling adds, the only add that's potentially dangerous is the shadow add with a few exceptions when it comes to the frost/arcane variety. If you're a class that can just sit in the AoE w/o having to worry about dying and/or distracting your healer, you're an asset with this seasonal affix as a melee. I think Blizz did something silly by making the damage able to be mitigated or nullified, because you can cheese the affix, especially with rogues. Most other melee will get trucked if the shadow add gets a 2nd or 3rd cast off, especially since some of the shadow adds don't offer close LoS for melee to use. Out of all the dungeons, I think TD does Beguilling like it should be done across all the dungeons: discourage stealthing past everything while allowing every melee class to tackle the shadow adds equally.

    This is coming from a druid who tanks and does lazer chicken while playing on a rogue alt, and even I can recognize how bloody powerful and useful my rogue is even in this season. It all comes down to which classes can trivialize and/or negate the hardest aspect of keys. One of the few classes who could perform well in baseline keys while also dealing with the Beguilling change this season with incredible ease are rogues. However, this is the issue that arises when you give a class an answer to every situation and access to multiple CC's of high desirability.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by warpath2k View Post
    I did read your post and expressed my lack of experience with it. But I still can't help but feel that on such a low key comparably speaking, its most likely a position thing or an exp issue. Im far from a blizz defender and I play only melee but I highly doubt that in the next M+ streams we will see only 1 melee. But meh maybe. Plenty of comps last season were melee heavy at the higher end.
    I noticed the last part too. Melee has been riding high for the past 3 years now, ignoring or even scoffing at rdps concerns.

    Not a Blizz defender myself (not by any stretch), but I'm not seeing how this affix is any better / worse than many of the others.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    You don't need LoS to kill the void adds. This just shows that people aren't used to the affix yet.

    Firstly it's been nerfed so the stacking dmg is now on players when they get hit, not on the mob.

    But even before that, you can survive the first 2 casts without being oneshotted. The first cast took about 50% of my HP without fortitude. The second cast would take 75%, the third cast would probably be fatal without a good defensive damage reduction cooldown. You can simply zerg the void mobs down before their damage becomes unmanageable.
    What you're not factoring in is that it's Grievous week. Putting the entire group at 50%, disregarding AOE damage from the rest of the pack, is putting a lot of stress on your healer.

    We got a shit week of other affixes to get a first run at this new 10+ one. Not to mention the emissaries are being affected by Fortified to boot.

    As for the topic at hand, well...I'm a shadow priest. Here's the world's smallest violin playing for the melee in M+.
    Last edited by Farabee; 2019-07-15 at 05:27 PM.

  18. #58
    I did 7 10+ keys last week with different comps and in every one of them we killed the void before the second cast. Maybe if you have 2 aff locks or something with no burst it might be an issue, but I don't think most comps will have an issue unless all the DPS have their damage CD's unavailable....which would be a L2P issue and not a problem with the affix.

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