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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Fun ways? There is only one way... Kill boss before getting 100% then get the last percentage.

    Which was done with either rogue or invis pot.
    Death skips, too. On some dungeons, you could even skip the last two reaping waves.

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord A Chozo's Avatar
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    I hope it's better than the usual AoE fest that was Reaping.

    That shit has no place in WoW. Maybe in Diablo, but not in WoW.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Death skips, too. On some dungeons, you could even skip the last two reaping waves.
    That seems unlikely considering what stopped the last Reaping wave was the dungeon being complete, not the last boss dying, and the 80% Reaping couldn't happen without the dungeon still being in progress.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    That seems unlikely considering what stopped the last Reaping wave was the dungeon being complete, not the last boss dying, and the 80% Reaping couldn't happen without the dungeon still being in progress.
    Well, they're not wrong. This was done in Shrine for example by triggering the 80% reaping after the third boss and saccing the whole group (probably the most well-known example of that).

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Caus View Post
    Because reaping was fun... right.
    ??? Reaping was awesome, everyone enjoys padding. You must be a healer.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    ??? Reaping was awesome, everyone enjoys padding. You must be a healer.
    As a resto druid reaping was the best way to pad dps too. Thanks cat form. But reaping was barely increasing the difficulty of the dungeon.

    About the affix, I tried one SotS +10 with a bad group (very poor bolstering management, like bolstering the mini bosses; body pulls etc). Only the void emissary was an issue, because the group didn't know what the fuck to do. One emissary spawn was atrocious though (between the first adds on the bridge before the third boss, the ones that spawn tentacles). The affix should be considerably easier to deal with once we have better gear, to burn down the void emissaries faster. We failed the timer because we were bad, not because the affix was overtuned.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2019-07-13 at 11:57 PM.

  7. #47
    I'm probably in the minority but I didn't really like reaping. I don't particularly think mass pulling is fun either, I'd much prefer each trash pack to be a meaningful challenge on their own and require some kind of planning (ie cc, priority damage, interrupts/stuns) once you get to higher difficulties rather than it being a matter of how many trash packs you can pull at once without dying to beat the timer. I feel like we're instead moving towards a hack and slash type of dungeon style that we saw in Legion (Arms warriors in ToS say hello), especially with the new essences once again providing options of powerful burst that we haven't all quite had in BfA so far.

    With that said I've mostly enjoyed Beguiling so far, but some of the placements are pretty mean like the cc immunity emissary on the double casters before third Underrot boss. It could use some work, just like infested did in the beginning. I suspect the "go go bigger pulls" crowd will dislike it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Without a timer there's actually no point to even have m+ in the game. It's supposed to be a challenge. Without the timer there's no reason to plan pulls, routes, anything. You can do whatever the fuck you want. You died? No problem, no timer anyway. Wipe? No problem, no timer anyway.

    People who complain about the m+ timer is probably the same people I laugh at when they queue to my keys.

    If you can't complete a 10 in time - you're either SEVERELY undergeared (350?) or you're just bad. It's as easy as that. The only reason people deplete keys is because they're not good enough for that key level. Made a mistake? Learn from it and get better.

    "The timer is the problem" Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.
    You've got a point in what you say but I don't think you could come off as more of a douchebag even if you tried.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    his point was it was fun because you didnt have to do anything useful to deal with the affix. stop trying to be sensible
    Reaping was the seasonal equivalent of overflowing or volcanic. It was pretty much a freebie for most groups and you could skip so much of it, early on you could skip the last two reaps which is clearly not the designed intent. Even now 2 of the beguiling mobs don't do anything that needs special treatment.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  9. #49
    Love that single target is actually important again.
    Can't help but laugh at all the people saying its "less fun" than reaping, because obviously the most fun thing in the game is to pop all cds on 30~ mobs that pose no danger to the dungeon's longevity.

    Anyway, some tips:
    Many of the packs near emmisaries can be split pulled. The Void at the start of freehold can be isolated this way.
    The ones with the packs in the courtyard of Boralus (3rd boss) can be split pulled if you aggro the boss as well etc.

    Now that they nerfed the void touched emmisary, you can soak one hit, then avoid the next hit and it will reset your 12 second damage taken debuff.
    That's how you should do it from now on.
    You can also do things like AMS, Bubble, Cloak etc to prevent the stacks in this way so you don't lose uptime.

    Don't CC the tides emissary unless you absolutely need to. Only on packs where missed interrupts will be a huge issue, like potentially the fear pack in Atal or something like that.

    Always try to combine mobs with the shadow emissary when you can to maximize cleave, especially now that you can make quick work of the damage increase debuff thanks to nerfs.
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  10. #50
    Absolutely terrible affix. Over timed a freehold 11 by 15 minutes when we timed a 17 the week before.
    Void ones suck like everyone says.
    Unstoppable ones are basically pointless unless they have healers in their pack, which case it becomes a whole minute of DPS zerging down the unstoppable unit while they get spam healed.
    The last one is a literal joke. We literally laughed at how absurdly pointless and different it was compared to the other two.

    From the 3 dungeons I did (11-13s) I learned one thing. Don't hesitate to pull, they are designed to screw you
    Use cooldowns on every pull, and focus on the emissary only (we could usually kill the void one half way through the second cast, making hiding pointless)

    There are far to many in each dungeon, they have zero real interaction (at least with reaping you had to dodge, dispell, and interrupt stuff), and are 100% there to waste time.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    That shit has no place in WoW. Maybe in Diablo, but not in WoW.
    What a load of crap. 3-4 waves of AoE nuking in a 30min dungeon and the sky is falling. Thank God the rest of the dungeon was a single target CC-crawl, right?

    If anything Reaping was a lot of fun. Stick with your M+5 every week, your feelings won't be hurt that way.

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    What a load of crap. 3-4 waves of AoE nuking in a 30min dungeon and the sky is falling. Thank God the rest of the dungeon was a single target CC-crawl, right?

    If anything Reaping was a lot of fun. Stick with your M+5 every week, your feelings won't be hurt that way.
    Lmao a speedrunned dungeon is a "crawl". You playing WoW in some turn-based format or something?

    I understand you like the mindless Reaping gameplay, but for the rest of us WoW has a core gameplay that we enjoy and we want it to be preserved, instead of replacing it with your Diablo bullshit.

    But still, you can always go back to those M+5 you mentioned, you apparently like the AoE fests!

  13. #53
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    Outside of few weird ones, everyone agree Reaping was fun. It wasn't hard at all but who said affix on a 10+ should crash your soul in the instant? It gave us a chance to see big @#$ numbers and plan our routes.
    What % of M+ runners are enjoying new affix?

  14. #54
    Day 1 on NA realms this affix was aids.

    After hotfixes and nerfs it's not that bad though.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  15. #55
    Did a few dungeons from 10's to 14's. The mobs themselves are easy to deal with since you can take 2 hits from void and kill it before the 3rd cast and you can shroud past the other 2 emissaries. My problem lies with philosophy of this affix and not understanding the thought process behind some changes.

    In one side Mythic Plus has always been about speed clearing dungeons and to promote this Blizzard even turned them into their PvE ESPORTS and on the other side they make an affix that makes the dungeons slower and more clunky. Blizzard claimed the Cannons in TD were fine and then nerfs them to the ground. Blizzard make dungeons less linear and with more freedom of choice and then drop void emissaries everywhere so we can't skip trash and decreases the % contribution some trash give.

    M+ in Legion was its first iteration and the best so far imo, no seasonal affix, gear swapping during dungeon so you could use some strategy and better designed dungeons for M+. Infested was just annoying and it felt they understood that so they created Reaping, which felt perfect for a seasonal in the sense that it wasn't too game breaker and gave some flavor to running dungeons during the BoD patch. And now this just feels like going a few steps back. Up until now I felt Blizz knew exactly what they were doing, now it just feels they are all over the place...

    Btw weren't we getting some seasonal rewards from M+? Didn't they say they had some stuff like this to announce?

    And to make it clear, I'm all up for hard dungeons, count me in for insanely difficult dungeons with loads of strategy and such but make them non timed runs. Timed runs should have some sort of tempo and fluidity and Beguiling just seems to be taking it all over.

  16. #56
    Honestly, I'm not sure what people are complaining about. It's pretty simple affix, as long as people deal with void emissaries correctly (either hide, burn, or pull pack back).

    Also, the Fortified+Bolstering+Grevious combo...I don't think I can imagine worse combo for pushing higher keys. Especially during the first week of a new season, where we're still somewhat undergeared. Especially for pugs, where people don't ever bother to eat between pulls, and just wait with their 4 grevious stacks to die while a healer is oom.
    If the future is female...get ready for apocalypse.

  17. #57
    Current iteration of the affix is quite fun - it does slow down runs significantly tho. Only change I would make it is for the Tides and Enchanted to disable their effects while they are casting their escape spell or cut that cast time in half.

    Mobs are also fortified - reaping was changed to not be affected by it directly, perhaps same can be done for emissaries to not double dip on fortified weeks.

  18. #58
    Aww, I really don't like it. Having to prepare a route in advance that just avoids the affix is not my idea of fun. And it's either that or just wing it and be slowed down.
    The mobs should either have a fixed position all season or just be 100% random so people have to think and deal with it on the fly (and risk getting screwed or be really lucky I suppose, but I prefer that instead of doing homework for it).

    As a side note, people who think being slowed down when doing the same dungeon for the 200th time or more is fun are weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnosh View Post
    M+ in Legion was its first iteration and the best so far imo, no seasonal affix, gear swapping during dungeon so you could use some strategy and better designed dungeons for M+
    +1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    I understand you like the mindless Reaping gameplay, but for the rest of us
    Rest who? I want to see a dps or tank say "AoE is not fun".
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2019-07-15 at 11:47 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Rest who? I want to see a dps or tank say "AoE is not fun".
    If you like easy AoE so much there are island expeditions for that. I wonder why they aren't the number 1 most praised/popular feature of the expansion if so many people like reaping.

  20. #60
    Personally, I think Reaping was the best affix ever.

    There were two major parts that made Reaping fun and not horrible:

    1) It was predictable, yet offered players way to work around it. You could choose WHEN to trigger it and you could skip the last one if you knew your way around the dungeon well. These are incredibly rewarding and make the players feel in control.

    2) It was not affected by other affixes. Reaping could have been the worst affix ever to be in the game if it was affected by other affixes.

    +1) The Bwonsamdi buff if you failed the timer. It made it less frustrating if you got stuck somewhere, also reset your BL, it was nice for people that weren't so focused.

    Now if you look at Beguiling much of this is reversed:

    1) Beguiling adds are added to pre-determined mob packs. This can either make them worthless or extremely annoying. Void emissaries are the worst in this regard.
    The main problem with this is that you have no choice about it. You must deal with them in the way Blizz intended you to. This was what made Infested annoying too. You had no control over your pulls. This is the exact same problem that Teeming as an affix has, and Blizz keeps on nerfing that affix to this day. This is because it's not fun.

    2) Apparently, these adds are affected by other affixes. I know, not bolstering, but others should work (at least I haven't seen any Blizz statement about this). This will make the worst affixes feel even worse (explosive) and this is already stacked on top of the previous 'no-freedom' problem. This just makes certain packs much more annoying and as a whole can make certain dungeons 'unplayable' on any given week.

    -1) There is no Bwonsamdi buff or any BL reset. This means that if your group loses the timer to some very unforgiving Emissary placement you WILL struggle with that depending on your team comp. I did a shrine yesterday, and the Void Emissary on the bridge between the 2 tentacles caused like 3 wipes cuz you had to deal with the adds too.

    Overall, I don't hate this affix as much as I hated Infested. It's like a less-bad Infested really, there are very minor differences between the two.
    Overgearing will make this affix a non-issue in the end.
    But my vote is on Reaping.

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