Why does gear still affect competitive pvp?

[rrayy]

Sorry, are you trying to say "gear doesnt matter" today? Patch 8.2 BfA ?
Thats totally false.

A fresh lvl 120 stands no chance against higher item level players...

I have a Brewmaster Monk (Tank spec) with who i play Random Bgs with...and i literally do zero damage to people of my item level and higher.
Zero damage.
But i can kill fresh max levels easily with this spec...which does next to no damage.

Just an example and personal experience of mine.

You should be even to those of the same Ilvel and you should actually be at a disadvantage against those of a higher IvL while being able to dominate fresh max levels that are well below you in Ilvl. If, you have the more powerful gear, you should be more powerful. Thius notion that you should be equal to someone 50 iLvl's higher than you is ridiculous. You want to defeat the more powerful players? Get the gear that that gets your I'lvl to equal theirs.

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The only issue I have is when pve-trinkets make a significant difference in competitive pvp. Sure... everyone serious with pvp will obtain those trinkets sooner or later but thats not really the point.

There shouldnt be pve-items in pvp thats better than pvp gear.

Period!

Just disable the equip bonuses and on-use abilities in BG's and Arena's. Issue solved.

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SO basically people cried that gear has too much meaning in pvp in wow. Blizzard listened and made templates.
But that diminished gear too much so we are in situation that gear matter more but not as much as in PvE.

Looks like reasonable middle ground, so why people are still upset?

Because people think that they should automatically be equals to player that are 50 ilvls above them. Stronger players should not be weakened to make those that don't want to gear up feel better.

[NihilSustinet]

If people want a power fantasy just leave it in battlegrounds; does anyone else think its the dumbest f4cking idea in existence having item level affect competitive PvP?

because this an mmo, not cs:go

[kenn9530]

You should be even to those of the same Ilvel and you should actually be at a disadvantage against those of a higher IvL while being able to dominate fresh max levels that are well below you in Ilvl. If, you have the more powerful gear, you should be more powerful. Thius notion that you should be equal to someone 50 iLvl's higher than you is ridiculous. You want to defeat the more powerful players? Get the gear that that gets your I'lvl to equal theirs.

PvP shouldnt be about what gear your wearing, it should be only about whos has the better skill, there is actually no point in PvP if your gear is so powerful that the other player has no chance, it doesnt promote good gameplay at all.

[rrayy]

PvP shouldnt be about what gear your wearing, it should be only about whos has the better skill, there is actually no point in PvP if your gear is so powerful that the other player has no chance, it doesnt promote good gameplay at all.

PvP is basically war. Therefore, gear absolutely does matter. Players shoujld not be neutered to give freshly maxed players an even shot. Those freshly maxed players should have to gear up just as those powerful players did. You want a chance? Gear up yourself. Stop asking to have your hand held.

[Big Thanks]

PvP is basically war. Therefore, gear absolutely does matter. Players shoujld not be neutered to give freshly maxed players an even shot. Those freshly maxed players should have to gear up just as those powerful players did. You want a chance? Gear up yourself. Stop asking to have your hand held.

But this is the best iteration of PvP we ever had. Its a perfect balance of both systems.
What exactly do you want to change?
For gear to matter even more?

PvP has never been this fun

As it stands right now, a person with better gear has the advantage...but is not as much as "back then" in the old days.

Its a perfect balance IMO

[kenn9530]

PvP is basically war. Therefore, gear absolutely does matter. Players shoujld not be neutered to give freshly maxed players an even shot. Those freshly maxed players should have to gear up just as those powerful players did. You want a chance? Gear up yourself. Stop asking to have your hand held.

Arena/Battlegrounds is basically a sport in WoW, why do you want an advantage in PvP when all that should matter is skill, then and only then will players actually get better, but fighting lesser geared people requires no skill and does nothing to improve your actual skills.

Any PvP game should have set limitations on characters to make everything on even terms.

[nRes]

Arena/Battlegrounds is basically a sport in WoW, why do you want an advantage in PvP when all that should matter is skill, then and only then will players actually get better, but fighting lesser geared people requires no skill and does nothing to improve your actual skills.

Any PvP game should have set limitations on characters to make everything on even terms.

The only thing equalizing the playing field does in rated game modes is that it just extends the suffering of less skilled players. Even back in TBC the game offered enough entry level gear so that a good player can pick up arena and be competitive within a couple of weeks. All these templates and diminishing the value of gear would not make a 1500 rated player suddenly get to 2000 rating. He will still be 1500, he might actually go down because now he doesn't even have gear advantage and more talented players will immediately move over him.

PvP in an MMO is about getting stronger than the other guy if possible. It's an MMO, you have a character you want to progress. What sense of progression is there in a game that equalizes the stats of everyone? What you think people will pvp for fun and giggles? Gear was and still is the best motivator.

[Dolus]

Fake argument. If you're so threatened by other people's outlooks in a game that can change based on player feedback and desire, then maybe you should play another game?

Do you mean "fallacious argument?" There's no such thing as a "fake argument." It wasn't an argument either. It was a comment. Instanced PVP was designed around a gear acquisition / progression system. It was also designed to remedy world PvP. It was far more organic in the beginning. Players were required to experience all parts of the game (it's an MMORPG) in order to acquire the best items... especially for PvP... mixing and matching. Others have made this comment as well.

[Queendom]

Your best chance was Legion templated PvP, but it's gone now, and in place of it we have Azerite traits which basically require you to get very specific items for very specific traits per spec.

[Zaanm4n]

so i have a little idea for this, I dont know how many of you will agree but here goes.

-Lets say we add pvp vendors who will sell said pvp gear. Remove the main stat from the gear it it just have stam & secondaries, instead of the main stat bring back PvP power/Resilience (1 can be offensive the other can be defensive).
Have the vendor sell say a ring with PvP power/Resilience & the variants of haste/crit - mastery/crit or they can go one step further and make it a token add the RnG element that way introducing more farming time like they have already.
-However this gear should not be able to TF/socket. In the case of a socket u need to purchase an item for the same number of honor points as the item which will allow you to socket that said item, however you cannot purchase an item to socket your gear more than once a week.
So if you got a socket for your gloves and have honor farmed for legs u cant get that till reset.
-Once you have acquired all your Honor gear - it should be at a total of say 1600 pvp power/resilience assuming 100 of each a piece, we can go on to farm CP which should total to about 2400 PvP power/Resilience , giving you 150 a piece.

this is just a basic structure of BG/Arena I think can work be improved upon. This allows us to keep girding honor/cp making it feel like an RPG and at the same time not have it be affected by PVE elements

[Tharkkun]

Because they had a great concept that nearly removed gear (pvp templates) and failed at the EXECUTION of it, so it soured people to the idea, and made blizzard go "Fuck it, we can't balance properly anyways, so why bother having the world's easiest tuning system if we'll never use it properly?" and axed it.

The concept was great and execution could've worked but then they tossed in a million artifact traits that made it damn near impossible to balance. They should've disabled all traits but that would've made classes stupid boring. They really set themselves up for failure.

[Swnem]

Totally agree. I never got the hate for Templates. Legion was the most bearable WoW PvP has been. But "i want to be unique", " I want by gear to matter so i can pwn undergeared solo queued players witth my pre-made" won over the devs.

Problem is many players see PvP as gear farming and a way to overpower other players that are undergeared. It is the same thing as twinks. It's been proved before. They find enjoyment in an uneaven match. By winning on gear they win.
This has always been the opposite of competitive play to me. So, while i PvP'ed in many character in Legion, i completely stay out of it in BfA. Cause it's not fun.

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so i have a little idea for this, I dont know how many of you will agree but here goes.

-Lets say we add pvp vendors who will sell said pvp gear. Remove the main stat from the gear it it just have stam & secondaries, instead of the main stat bring back PvP power/Resilience (1 can be offensive the other can be defensive).
Have the vendor sell say a ring with PvP power/Resilience & the variants of haste/crit - mastery/crit or they can go one step further and make it a token add the RnG element that way introducing more farming time like they have already.
-However this gear should not be able to TF/socket. In the case of a socket u need to purchase an item for the same number of honor points as the item which will allow you to socket that said item, however you cannot purchase an item to socket your gear more than once a week.
So if you got a socket for your gloves and have honor farmed for legs u cant get that till reset.
-Once you have acquired all your Honor gear - it should be at a total of say 1600 pvp power/resilience assuming 100 of each a piece, we can go on to farm CP which should total to about 2400 PvP power/Resilience , giving you 150 a piece.

this is just a basic structure of BG/Arena I think can work be improved upon. This allows us to keep girding honor/cp making it feel like an RPG and at the same time not have it be affected by PVE elements

All your resilience gear is doing is section off a huge part of the playerbase and make the process of obtaining it a "sheep to the slaughter" affair.
Screw gear in pvp honestly. It's like having a sword duel where one person is naked and the other is wearing full armor. It's dumb.

Sure, award gear all the same from a vendor so you are not cordoned off from other content.

Bu hey... i'm tired of this argument. RPG bla bla elements. Yeah, they have no place in a competitive contest. It's just cheating. Yes, many people enjoy cheating. Doesn't make it right or healthy for the game.

[stenbumling89]

I'd be interested to hear their reasoning for keeping oblivion spear critting 50k in rated pvp and tank items making melee take so little damage
I don't think it's bad that gear impacts your PvP power but I think the game could be better if Blizzard was more aggresive whennerfing outlier items that are too impactful

[justandulas]

If people want a power fantasy just leave it in battlegrounds; does anyone else think its the dumbest f4cking idea in existence having item level affect competitive PvP?

In unrated bg’s gear should matter. Nothing more fun than being geared in vanilla and rofl stomping the competition.

That said, for arena and competitive rbg... it should be even field where skill determines it

[Lorianus]

People think they want balanced pvp but as soon as they hit their inevitable rating brickwall in legion under the templates they realised that thats not what they wanted, lets face it most people think that they are better than they really are and as soon as they run into their skill wall they will stop progressing and will lose interest.

So they let players abuse some items for a few weeks before nerfing them so players can feel good about themselfs in what they "acomplished"

[SkagenRora]

Because PvP is about skill, not about killing scripted mobs.

It shoulden't be. Gear should always come first in a game.

If you want skill-only PvP you should play a Battle-royale, Moba or FPS.

In MMORPG it's all about the gear,

[Charge me Doctor]

Because it's mmorpg and gear matters

[kenn9530]

The only thing equalizing the playing field does in rated game modes is that it just extends the suffering of less skilled players. Even back in TBC the game offered enough entry level gear so that a good player can pick up arena and be competitive within a couple of weeks. All these templates and diminishing the value of gear would not make a 1500 rated player suddenly get to 2000 rating. He will still be 1500, he might actually go down because now he doesn't even have gear advantage and more talented players will immediately move over him.

PvP in an MMO is about getting stronger than the other guy if possible. It's an MMO, you have a character you want to progress. What sense of progression is there in a game that equalizes the stats of everyone? What you think people will pvp for fun and giggles? Gear was and still is the best motivator.

PvP is nothing about getting stronger and its pretty much WoWs version of a sport, PvP should only be about skill as nothing else should be a factor apart from blizzs terrible ability to balance classes.

Noone would care about gear if everyone was on equal footing in PvP, why do you need to get stronger gear just to win, if you cant do it by skill alone then PvP may be the wrong type of gameplay for that player, gear should never be the focus of your gameplay but these days its handed out like candy anyway so anyone can get the best gear.

[Sixnalia]

I prefer GW2's approach.

Vendors with all the gear you need to create your build.
Everything you want is unlocked.

Build -your- PvP character and do some PvP on an "even" level.

The only screw ups are you making a crap build, your skill level, or the classes themselves having a balance issue that needs adjusting.


But some people want that feeling of superiority without the skill, to just out gear their opponent and crush them with raw power instead of nailing a CC-lock and shutting down a healer skillfully.



Was doing 2v2 recently with a friend. Both of us are 415+.

We were running into people with 50k+ hp less than us.

I don't enjoy ganking, and that is what it felt like.

[BeepBoo]

People think they want balanced pvp but as soon as they hit their inevitable rating brickwall in legion under the templates they realised that thats not what they wanted, lets face it most people think that they are better than they really are and as soon as they run into their skill wall they will stop progressing and will lose interest.

So they let players abuse some items for a few weeks before nerfing them so players can feel good about themselfs in what they "acomplished"

I'd wager that has more to do with blizzard's track record for balancing than anything else. They need to balance classes/specs to be 1:1 if they ever hope to cure the issue of arena team making. And I don't mean give everyone the same utility, I mean go through and figure out the total worth of a class (cc+dps+hps+defensives+offensives) and make those all equal.

Effort for effort, certain specs just have an easier time climbing. Half of that is the fact that wow has this retarded idea that coordinating CC chains is the be-all-end-all of skill and the only time people should die is when they pop CDs and CC. The other half is that blizzard thinks if pure dps teams were anywhere close to equally viable as teams with heals, healers wouldn't be played. To that I say.... who cares? As long as healers aren't OP or UP, you'd have exactly how many people want to play healer playing healer. What's wrong with that? Why do you want to entice people to play something they naturally don't want to play?