Why does gear still affect competitive pvp?

[kenn9530]

If you were really geared and good in pvp you know that gear was not such big deal when do you fight against something different than green hero who actually done no effort to be stronger. It's same like call Mythic+ sport. Let's remove gear from it. Because you know...it's more fair for long term e-sport races. And while they race in raid too. Let's remove gear for mythic raid.

Bro, we do not want be stronger because we needs one-hit some green heroes. We want pvp gear because we want progress and power from playing this game. Mmo is exactly about it. Even pvp. Nobody care about pvp as general since there is no reward from it. I know right now almost ten people who still playing wow and stoped play pvp because it.

But in PvP you wont feel much stronger anyway most of the time as you will be fighting players who are getting stronger also so its better to just have the templates so everyone is on equal terms and noone apart from FOTM classes have any advantage, gear gives the OP PvP classes an even bigger advantage and makes PvP even less fun.

PvP should be solely on skill of the player/team and nothing to do with gear.

[HCLM]

Yes give everybody the same gear, so we can see 2-3 comps all the time because when your gear does not matter your class matters even more.

Best PvP was in Wotlk. Where you were able to faceroll lower geared people.

[Drench]

If people want a power fantasy just leave it in battlegrounds; does anyone else think its the dumbest f4cking idea in existence having item level affect competitive PvP?

Because it's a RPG BADDIE. Go buy crappy guildwars2

[Ticj]

You are almost never fighting just scrubs. BGs always used to have top geared people on both sides. Top geared people were competing with other top geared people and less geared people were helping while they farmed their own gear. That's how it works.



I don't understand why they removed resilience. I think it worked great. It separated PVP from PVE items nicely. Top PVE items were decent, but could never compete with someone with a lot of resilience.

And thats how it should be. People who PvP should be rewarded by being better in PvP. Just how people who do PvE are rewarded for doing PvE. PvP Resillience and PvP Power was a bit wonky at the time, but it's still so much more rewarding than what PvP is now.

[mostvp71]

WoTLK's system for PvP (gearings, titles etc) was great, Blizzard is dumb for trying to reinvent the wheel.

[maulgryve]

And thats how it should be. People who PvP should be rewarded by being better in PvP. Just how people who do PvE are rewarded for doing PvE. PvP Resillience and PvP Power was a bit wonky at the time, but it's still so much more rewarding than what PvP is now.

If they had kept the resilience and pvp power all this time and made slight adjustments over the years - we would be sitting pretty right now. Instead, you have to run raids to compete in arena, and the devs like it that way(according to ion interview).

[Druitz]

Yes give everybody the same gear, so we can see 2-3 comps all the time because when your gear does not matter your class matters even more.

Best PvP was in Wotlk. Where you were able to faceroll lower geared people.

Yea, sure. It had much sense that you could one-shot someone. Everyone is crying that pve gear ruined pvp and here you come with Wotlk best pvp. Yea, wotlk had best pvp but it's not because of HUGE gear advantage pve players could get. It was actually worst thing about wotlk because without decent pve gear some classes were unplayable for example MM hunter or arms warrior

[Sosua]

and i literally do zero damage to people of my item level and higher.
Zero damage.

But i can kill fresh max levels easily with this spec

Then that is a lie, or you literally don't know what literally means...

[HCLM]

Yea, sure. It had much sense that you could one-shot someone. Everyone is crying that pve gear ruined pvp and here you come with Wotlk best pvp. Yea, wotlk had best pvp but it's not because of HUGE gear advantage pve players could get. It was actually worst thing about wotlk because without decent pve gear some classes were unplayable for example MM hunter or arms warrior

It is mmorpg, not moba. Your gear is meant to affect your power. If that is a problem for you maybe switch to mobas, or fps. Oh wait, gear matters there as well but in slightly different sense.

[Druitz]

It is mmorpg, not moba. Your gear is meant to affect your power. If that is a problem for you maybe switch to mobas, or fps. Oh wait, gear matters there as well but in slightly different sense.

Have i said gear shouldn't make difference in player's power? Reading with understanding does not cause pain. I was talking about pve gear (hi voidstone) in pvp tbing that ruined bfa pvp. I will try to write it as easy as i can. Gear should matter, higher rated pvp players sbould have acces to better gear but this pvp gear sbould not be worse in pvp than gear from different activity for example m+. Let me know if you understand now

[Nfinitii]

If people want a power fantasy just leave it in battlegrounds; does anyone else think its the dumbest f4cking idea in existence having item level affect competitive PvP?

I used to think gear shouldn’t play such a large role, but after the last couple of expansions my opinion change. Wow will never be an esport. And needs to stop being thought of as one.

Gear should play a role, u should be able to spend time to gear up ur toon then go smash other players who haven’t spent as much time playing theirs. Wow needs that sense of gear progression.

[barrsftw]

Because it's an MMORPG. They tried having gear not affect PvP and it was horrible. Turns out people like building and improving their gear in an MMORPG.

[buzuzuki]

Dude the stupidity of some people in threads like these makes me wanna smack my head against the wall. If you think gear should matter in PvP you are an asbolute noob. It's just how it is. You are actually dumber than flat earthers.

[Philomene]

Dude the stupidity of some people in threads like these makes me wanna smack my head against the wall. If you think gear should matter in PvP you are an asbolute noob. It's just how it is. You are actually dumber than flat earthers.

can we have your credentials for such an assessment, wait, you’re prob a 1800 legion player regretting the templates and thinking you’re losing because of gear difference.

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Gear should matter, but not to extent we have now where not even high end PvE gear carries hundreds of points. There’s other games if you think character progression doesn’t belong in PvP or in the game at all.

[Kagthul]

Dude the stupidity of some people in threads like these makes me wanna smack my head against the wall. If you think gear should matter in PvP you are an asbolute noob. It's just how it is. You are actually dumber than flat earthers.

If your supposed no-gear, no-progression Nirvana is so great...

riddle me this:

Why does the participation in PvP (particularly rated PvP) utterly collapse every time we move closer to it?

Participation fell hard in WoD (where we moved to "there are only 2 pieces of gear for each slot") - about a 30% drop from Pandaria - and then fell over NINETY PERCENT in Legion (from the already all-time low of WoD).

Ninety Percent.

Nine Zero.

Proofs in the pudding, puddin.

[buzuzuki]

can we have your credentials for such an assessment, wait, you’re prob a 1800 legion player regretting the templates and thinking you’re losing because of gear difference.

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Gear should matter, but not to extent we have now where not even high end PvE gear carries hundreds of points. There’s other games if you think character progression doesn’t belong in PvP or in the game at all.

First of all why does rating have to do anything with my opinion? I was not even 1800 in legion for the record. That doesn't make my point less valid it only makes you look retarded for using ab hominem to prove me wrong. I am 1900 atm in bfa though so if anything I should be happy to win more because of gear. But I don't care about rating. All i care about is balance. Gear should not matter in PvP because it gives an unfair advantage. It essentially makes the gap between bad and good players even larger. Good players get better gear so now the worse players don't stand even a slight chance of climbing high. I mean if you don't really see this for yourself there is no point arguing.

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If your supposed no-gear, no-progression Nirvana is so great...

riddle me this:

Why does the participation in PvP (particularly rated PvP) utterly collapse every time we move closer to it?

Participation fell hard in WoD (where we moved to "there are only 2 pieces of gear for each slot") - about a 30% drop from Pandaria - and then fell over NINETY PERCENT in Legion (from the already all-time low of WoD).

Ninety Percent.

Nine Zero.

Proofs in the pudding, puddin.

Because ninety percent of the pvp population are noobs.

[Druitz]

Btw, people have not stopped playing pvp because of gear matter or not. They are slowly leaving because game is old, classes are not fun to play (best players don't rly care about it). Gearing is not as important as other aspect of the game if we talk about pvp only.

More ppl left in BFA not only because of how retarded pve items were but also because of how is expansion overall and game is getting older and older.

Also people do not enjoy getting destroyed in low gear. I was gearing my hpala in s2, had like 110k hp at 2k cr. it was nightmare to survive and not impossible to win. In legion i could go 300-400 rating higher with equal gear. BFA pvp is just more time consuming because you actually need gear.

If they will add vendors and if they will even let us set stats we want, remove pve clown fiesta items from pvp we will not see more players because game is old.

Gearing is important mainly for bad players or pve players that try their strength in pvp. For best players it doesn't matter. Sadly most ppl are noobs like buzuzuki said

[Fred Skinner]

The main reason why pvp is unfair in world of warcraft is that the incompetent senior pvp designer, Mr. Kaleiki, is a hardcore gamer, who wants to dominate newbies thanks to his mythic raid gear.

Beyond that, there is no reason to make gear matter in matchmade pvp.

[kenn9530]

You understand this is an MMORPG and gearing your character is a major aspect of it. If you don't enjoy that style then there are plenty of other games for you

an MMORPG should have nothing to do with gear making a character powerful, it should be the actual character itself who gains power not by having a weapon with a main stat increasing damage by 100% of base, gear is a by product of old/bad game design and WoW relies on it completely where as other MMOs the gear only gains power slightly each expansion.

I personally have no issue getting gear at any lvl but rated PvP primarily should never give a player a gear advantage.

[Philomene]

Btw, people have not stopped playing pvp because of gear matter or not. They are slowly leaving because game is old, classes are not fun to play (best players don't rly care about it). Gearing is not as important as other aspect of the game if we talk about pvp only.

More ppl left in BFA not only because of how retarded pve items were but also because of how is expansion overall and game is getting older and older.

Also people do not enjoy getting destroyed in low gear. I was gearing my hpala in s2, had like 110k hp at 2k cr. it was nightmare to survive and not impossible to win. In legion i could go 300-400 rating higher with equal gear. BFA pvp is just more time consuming because you actually need gear.

If they will add vendors and if they will even let us set stats we want, remove pve clown fiesta items from pvp we will not see more players because game is old.

Gearing is important mainly for bad players or pve players that try their strength in pvp. For best players it doesn't matter. Sadly most ppl are noobs like buzuzuki said

Doesn’t matter that the game is old, arena is pretty much unique it’s in own genre, it has always attracted some people and despite its sad state the game still lures a ton of people during MDIs and WF races, be it PVE it doesn’t matter. The game still has a lot of attractiveness which its competitors don’t have, FF14 basically lives over WoW’s failures and its dedicated player base its lower than WoW’s.

Bringing people back is effectively more than just re-adding vendors. It’s about making the classes interesting, having a progression curve again, having better balance both in 2s and 3s (comes with class design though), and overall getting rid of the diablo systems and stuff like timegating and crap.

Gearing IS important in an MMORPG, the systems we had from Cata to Warlords was perfectly fine. Good players would get their gear faster while more average people would get it anyway. It gave everyone a progression goal and path. Good players didn’t care about the gear because they would get it twice as fast as the mass and they were facing people with the same gear. Nonetheless the mass that’s making the game live (not negating the importance of the top players influence though) had to work for it and it was a system NO ONE asked for its demise.