Operation: Mechagon

[Garymorilix]

The dungeon is fun, but it IS overtuned.

I did it twice with a 415 group.

Thing is, mechanics are very simple yet stuff takes ages to kill. Especially bosses. There are so few thing to actually actively do that it is a tank-n-spank most of the time.
In fact, the hardest part of the dungeon is the last trash pack right before King Mechagon.

The best encounters are literally the first 4. Those actually require you to do stuff. The last 4 are tank-n-spank. I would say each boss needs a 30% nerf to health to make this dungeon less boring. Especially when keystones come, tyraniccal bosses here would take 15 mins with this tuning. Damage is fine, it's mostly one-shot crap.

I would honestly wanna see someone breeze thru this 390-400ilvl in an hour. Not half a day, in an hour.

[Seiken3]

As an avid dungeoneer since early Vanilla, I made sure to carefully handpick classes and specs to bring to Mechagon when I went there tanking for the first time...

...And boy what a time we had! We were roughly around ilvl 400 and everyone actually made sure to get to know each other a little bit as we waited for the group to fill up(The process took about 30 minutes to get the right composition going). By the time we pulled the first boss, we had no prior knowledge other than logic and a thirst for adventure, and we all talked about thoughts towards the new dungeon as we cleared trash, learned what hit like a truck, what dispels must be made, things to avoid and it was all in a positive tone.
The fact that nobody had been there before forced us to work together to solve the tactics of the boss, figure out what they were(without looking too much in the adventure guide) and we had a blast doing boss after boss!

There was no toxic comments, failure was greeted with constructive feedback that was positively taken and improved upon new attempts. Even failing over and over on a boss because a person had a hard time dealing with the mechanics prompted forth creative solutions(which there can be many of in this dungeon!! ) to help out that player to finally succeed in their task and feel the rush of overcoming obstacles together with the rest of the group.

At the end, everyone thanked each other for a fantastic 2.5 hour clear in a vast mechanic journey, exchanged btags and talked about not having this much fun since vanilla, bc or wrath. It was truly a magical journey in many different ways for me and my party members!

So thank you, Blizzard - you created a solid, inspiring dungeon! I really hope you will include more mega-dungeons in the game; something for the adventurous adventurer to indulge in and make new friends with.

After all - this game doesn't lack things to do with your friends... it lacks things that will help you get them.


Edit PS: Mechagon is not overtuned. It's a megadungeon where bosses is basically mini-raid bosses with simplified tactics. I will admit 1-2 bosses could have another mechanic thrown in to add more suspense, but I'm really being picky now :P

[mag07]

The dungeon is fun, but it IS overtuned.

I did it twice with a 415 group.

Thing is, mechanics are very simple yet stuff takes ages to kill. Especially bosses. There are so few thing to actually actively do that it is a tank-n-spank most of the time.
In fact, the hardest part of the dungeon is the last trash pack right before King Mechagon.

The best encounters are literally the first 4. Those actually require you to do stuff. The last 4 are tank-n-spank. I would say each boss needs a 30% nerf to health to make this dungeon less boring. Especially when keystones come, tyraniccal bosses here would take 15 mins with this tuning. Damage is fine, it's mostly one-shot crap.

I would honestly wanna see someone breeze thru this 390-400ilvl in an hour. Not half a day, in an hour.

It was not tuned for sub 400, they were quite clear about it. In 2 weeks everyone and their grandma will be around 430 plus and with the retarded scaling, it will be faceroll on M0 just like all others. The issue at hand is with the whole game design, too many difficulties and scaling that just can't be balanced against the massive inflation even within a tier. Sad thing is, even with what feels like overtuned healthpools now, the shelf life of that dungeon is a month at most, even for the casual player. Just the sad state of the game - they manage to invalidate the content so quickly they are forced to timegate/add additional grinds just to keep people in the game.

[Kumorii]

To people who say it's overtuned... Do mechanics. It's a dungeon you can't just zerg. We wiped on first boss for a few times before we figured out what to do... After you do mechanics your gear is irrelevant.

[Garymorilix]

It was not tuned for sub 400, they were quite clear about it. In 2 weeks everyone and their grandma will be around 430 plus and with the retarded scaling, it will be faceroll on M0 just like all others. The issue at hand is with the whole game design, too many difficulties and scaling that just can't be balanced against the massive inflation even within a tier. Sad thing is, even with what feels like overtuned healthpools now, the shelf life of that dungeon is a month at most, even for the casual player. Just the sad state of the game - they manage to invalidate the content so quickly they are forced to timegate/add additional grinds just to keep people in the game.

Ermh, what?

What is this classic "but everyone has epic now bruh" kind of nonsense here again?

These bosses has way too much health for the intended target iLvL range that is supposed to do them. Everything else is fine. Loot is fine. The vast majority of the playerbase won't be anywhere near 430 in 2 weeks.

[FuxieDK]

So basically your group took everything to the face, didnt remove enrages on trash and didn't do boss mechanics right.

We did first 4 with 390-400 gear. We did wipe some while learning the encounters (did not read anything beforehand because we like to do everything like that) and some wipes while perfecting what to do but definitely not so overtuned that it can't be done with less than required ilvl.

What wow needs is instances like Mechagon. Sure it gets breeze after everyone gets geared up but so does everything in the game. I'd really like to see this kind of content more in future (maybe with each patch and maybe in expansion release aswell, something to do while waiting for raids to open).

I remove corruption and enraged (Moonkin), as well I could as DPS.
It was trial by error, to zap troggs, stack for smash etc, but it was still horribly overturned.

I have pugged M+6 (or 7) as the highest level I was comfortable with. This was harder than M+7 IMO.

I don't mind difficult (HoR was my favorite dungeon in WotLK), but difficult and overturned is not the same.

[Sarook]

Ermh, what?

What is this classic "but everyone has epic now bruh" kind of nonsense here again?

These bosses has way too much health for the intended target iLvL range that is supposed to do them. Everything else is fine. Loot is fine. The vast majority of the playerbase won't be anywhere near 430 in 2 weeks.

I mean you are kinda both right.

We will become over geared for that content and it will be pretty easy on the M0 difficulty. You are right through that many many players will not be at that level in a couple of weeks and will mean its still relevant for abit longer than he suggests.

imo the health pools are fine and mean you just need to cycle a few phases and master the tactics more which is always a bonus and will (hopefully) lead to people being able to move to the M+ versions with greater ease as they are already aware of the more subtle mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

I have pugged M+6 (or 7) as the highest level I was comfortable with. This was harder than M+7 IMO
.

I mean to be honest, so it should be. I presume you are going by a +6 or 7 in season 2 which will be especially so. For those at gear around the 400 mark those should be pretty dam straight forward with no real issues. I do understand though that some struggle with that level and cant go above with is perfectly fine but that doesn't mean that a brand new dungeon should be tuned to a point where you are already over geared for it. If it was truly overtuned you would see considerably more comments saying this very thing rather than a few from those that are maybe more used to running through content at a higher level than designed.

[crusadernero]

I joined several failed groups, were people just outright left the second someone died or we wiped. This happend even though everyone was new to the dungeon. Refused to listen to tactics or anything. Just the normal PULL EVERYTHING, NUKE AND IGNORE mechanincs.

I was about to give up and dont bother trying the dungeon before going on holiday for 3 weeks, but decided to give it one more go laate last night.

Luckily this was a good group that did mechanics and had a "lets learn this and do it" attitude. A few wipes on each boss and we learned them and di 4 bosses before it got to late and people had to leave group.

its a great dungeon and I like it. We even used CC on trash and thats great! We communicated, talked about mechanics and tactics, who does what etc. Planned trashpulls, marked mobs. Awesome! Not just the braindead zergfest.

The dungeon is not the problem. Players mentality and behaviour is.

[Fartoo]

Mechagon is not overtuned. It is easily done with a proper group, but people have gotten used to not CCing, not dispelling enrages and magic effects, they don't help the tank kite if needed etc. People want easy content that they can just faceroll through and get upgrades for nothing.

I loved Mechagon, we went in last night and actually managed to do a few hardmodes without knowing or researching tactics prior to going in. My guildies and I are a mythic progress guild, so people actually use their abilities, dispells, ccs and they know what they're doing. Sure, we did have a few wipes, but it was due to not knowing what anything does, both trash and bosses.

The dungeon does not need to be changed, because it is not overtuned. Wow finally got some proper hard content that is just awesome to do, and I'd be disappointed if it got nerfed to the ground. If your group failed, maybe you should check a few things before getting on these forums and whining "iTs OveRtuNEd NeEdS NerFs pLIs", things like was your group dispelling and interupting, did they prioritise targets, did you actually cc a few of those nasty packs.

Only thing I've got to say to people who do complain like this, is none other than the most honest and truthful suggestion ever, git gud and stop ruining the game.

[Garymorilix]

I mean you are kinda both right.

We will become over geared for that content and it will be pretty easy on the M0 difficulty. You are right through that many many players will not be at that level in a couple of weeks and will mean its still relevant for abit longer than he suggests.

imo the health pools are fine and mean you just need to cycle a few phases and master the tactics more which is always a bonus and will (hopefully) lead to people being able to move to the M+ versions with greater ease as they are already aware of the more subtle mechanics.

Ofc we will over gear it. That doesn't mean it can't be streamlined for the ilvl it's meant to be.

The first 4 bosses are fine, more or less.
The trogg is piss easy.
The duo COULD use a 10-15% health nerf, but they have you do stuff so it's nothing major.
The slime is fine.
Aerial unit is fun, tho its cast time could be lowered to make it more demanding on the gauntlet. Right now one person can do it alone which feels wrong AND SLOW.

Robo arena duo needs a major Health nerf. Or at least the Pummeler does. It has one ability and still takes like 5 mins to kill alone. Very boring. Increase its damage and reduce its health.
The dog needs to channel the AoE way faster. It takes ages to stand behind those boxes. And that ability triggers like every 10% health or so, makes it very slow.
The mechanic garden needs a health nerf firstly, and a buff to small turret damage and flying gear frequency. This would make the fight more intense rather than the slog-fest it is now.
King Mechagon is fine.

These are my hot-takes.

[Taeldorian]

This probably the most overturned dungeon in the history of the game.

I tried it yesterday, and we wiped 5 times on trash, before first boss.

Then we wiped 7 times on first boss, before we disbanded. Best attempt was 74%

Ilevel req in group finder was set to 405.

Wait what? That sounds like you’re just really bad no offense. You do know that just because you can’t rush through a dungeon in 20 minutes doesn’t mean it’s overtuned right? Or even if you can’t complete it doesn’t make it overtuned. 405-410 ilvl is perfectly acceptable at this point as well.

We went in with no knowledge of the fights as we all got on around 12 pm EST to run through it before raid later that night. We wiped on 2 bosses one time each (slime boss because of the robots and the robot boss where you had to charge the pylons) and that’s it. Wiping on trash that much definitely points towards you/your group being pretty bad. There’s a ton of mechanics, some are even relatively new, you can’t just go in with a pug and expect shit to fall over.

[Sarook]

Ofc we will over gear it. That doesn't mean it can't be streamlined for the ilvl it's meant to be.

The first 4 bosses are fine, more or less.
The trogg is piss easy.
The duo COULD use a 10-15% health nerf, but they have you do stuff so it's nothing major.
The slime is fine.
Aerial unit is fun, tho its cast time could be lowered to make it more demanding on the gauntlet. Right now one person can do it alone which feels wrong AND SLOW.

Robo arena duo needs a major Health nerf. Or at least the Pummeler does. It has one ability and still takes like 5 mins to kill alone. Very boring. Increase its damage and reduce its health.
The dog needs to channel the AoE way faster. It takes ages to stand behind those boxes. And that ability triggers like every 10% health or so, makes it very slow.
The mechanic garden needs a health nerf firstly, and a buff to small turret damage and flying gear frequency. This would make the fight more intense rather than the slog-fest it is now.
King Mechagon is fine.

These are my hot-takes.

Seems pretty fair tbh. Even if the cast time on aerial unit was the same but the amount required to do the turret increased slightly and the speed of the gauntlet parts increased slightly it might seem more fast paced and abit more dramatic.

Did you find that the boxes dropped almost instantly after the initial burst so always spawned directly behind the damged box? It eventually led to some awful positioning. Probs a little bug but was still annoying.

[Fantomen]

Did try to pug it and the dungen did kick my ass, killed the fist boss, and then peopel did give up, and I am fine with it (not that PUG are a pain) but there are exclusive content that you cant see in "tourist mode" and get rewarded with a 5% buff every time you wipe.

To have cleared it will actually feel like a reward in its self, becuse it was hard.

[Garymorilix]

Seems pretty fair tbh. Even if the cast time on aerial unit was the same but the amount required to do the turret increased slightly and the speed of the gauntlet parts increased slightly it might seem more fast paced and abit more dramatic.

Did you find that the boxes dropped almost instantly after the initial burst so always spawned directly behind the damged box? It eventually led to some awful positioning. Probs a little bug but was still annoying.

That would just make the fight even slower.

I figured boxes drop there because ranged refused to move. I am melee/tank, and always thought it was because of that. But also, they kinda have to drop quick cuz tha flame channel is too frequent and slow. If the channel was 2 seconds faster then it could drop 2 seconds later and nothign else would change.

[Taeldorian]

Ermh, what?

What is this classic "but everyone has epic now bruh" kind of nonsense here again?

These bosses has way too much health for the intended target iLvL range that is supposed to do them. Everything else is fine. Loot is fine. The vast majority of the playerbase won't be anywhere near 430 in 2 weeks.

You can get to 425 with benthic gear fairly easily. Getting manapearls requires doing dailies/WQs/killing rares/opening chests. All of that is something anyone can do.

It’s pretty ridiculous to assume the dungeon is tuned for people at 390-400 ilvl. 390 is slightly above mythic Uldir ilvl which was 4 raids ago (counting uldir itself). It’s not going to be tuned for that ilvl. The new raid drops 415 gear on normal, that’s probably what it’s tuned for which is fine. You can get to 415 through casual benthic gearing very easily if you don’t raid.

[Sarook]

Did try to pug it and the dungen did kick my ass, killed the fist boss, and then peopel did give up, and I am fine with it (not that PUG are a pain) but there are exclusive content that you cant see in "tourist mode" and get rewarded with a 5% buff every time you wipe.

To have cleared it will actually feel like a reward in its self, becuse it was hard.

That's exactly the sort of attitude people should have imo. bang on!

GL in your journey to get it cleared!

[Garymorilix]

You can get to 425 with benthic gear fairly easily. Getting manapearls requires doing dailies/WQs/killing rares/opening chests. All of that is something anyone can do.

It’s pretty ridiculous to assume the dungeon is tuned for people at 390-400 ilvl. 390 is slightly above mythic Uldir ilvl which was 4 raids ago (counting uldir itself). It’s not going to be tuned for that ilvl. The new raid drops 415 gear on normal, that’s probably what it’s tuned for which is fine. You can get to 415 through casual benthic gearing very easily if you don’t raid.

I did the math on Benthic gear, and assuming you don't reroll token at all you'd need a little over 2 months to get a fully 425 set of benthic items.
Given you did everything on a daily basis.
That's a lot of effort and a lot of time, which is fair.

But nowhere near the 2 week mark the guy said that everyone would be 430+.

[Seiken3]

Seems pretty fair tbh. Even if the cast time on aerial unit was the same but the amount required to do the turret increased slightly and the speed of the gauntlet parts increased slightly it might seem more fast paced and abit more dramatic.

Did you find that the boxes dropped almost instantly after the initial burst so always spawned directly behind the damged box? It eventually led to some awful positioning. Probs a little bug but was still annoying.

Yes! It screwed us over, but since I was tanking - I Was able to tank the boss at a cool place so it was all good eventually. I can only imagine how it is for the less fortunate groups.

[cuafpr]

if only it was queue able in HC version >.<

[ecospherez]

As an avid dungeoneer since early Vanilla, I made sure to carefully handpick classes and specs to bring to Mechagon when I went there tanking for the first time...

...And boy what a time we had! We were roughly around ilvl 400 and everyone actually made sure to get to know each other a little bit as we waited for the group to fill up(The process took about 30 minutes to get the right composition going). By the time we pulled the first boss, we had no prior knowledge other than logic and a thirst for adventure, and we all talked about thoughts towards the new dungeon as we cleared trash, learned what hit like a truck, what dispels must be made, things to avoid and it was all in a positive tone.
The fact that nobody had been there before forced us to work together to solve the tactics of the boss, figure out what they were(without looking too much in the adventure guide) and we had a blast doing boss after boss!

There was no toxic comments, failure was greeted with constructive feedback that was positively taken and improved upon new attempts. Even failing over and over on a boss because a person had a hard time dealing with the mechanics prompted forth creative solutions(which there can be many of in this dungeon!! ) to help out that player to finally succeed in their task and feel the rush of overcoming obstacles together with the rest of the group.

At the end, everyone thanked each other for a fantastic 2.5 hour clear in a vast mechanic journey, exchanged btags and talked about not having this much fun since vanilla, bc or wrath. It was truly a magical journey in many different ways for me and my party members!

So thank you, Blizzard - you created a solid, inspiring dungeon! I really hope you will include more mega-dungeons in the game; something for the adventurous adventurer to indulge in and make new friends with.

After all - this game doesn't lack things to do with your friends... it lacks things that will help you get them.


Edit PS: Mechagon is not overtuned. It's a megadungeon where bosses is basically mini-raid bosses with simplified tactics. I will admit 1-2 bosses could have another mechanic thrown in to add more suspense, but I'm really being picky now :P

This literally made me want to resub (Haven't been subbed since around early WOD)