Nebraska under water, does anyone care?

[stevenho]

Shouldn't there be less water due to global warming and progressing aridification?

[Saucexorzski]

Shouldn't there be less water due to global warming and progressing aridification?

No no, you misunderstand. Any and all changes in the weather are due to the US right not getting on board with wealth redistribution.

[Post]

It's more like folks on MMO champion are lying. Fema has been given funding for for these floods and yes trump signed the order...sigh making me defend trump because you folks love hate, pathetic.


a list of links from fema!
https://www.fema.gov/news-releases?f...s_per_page=100 a list of links from fema!

The first two links.
https://www.fema.gov/news-release/20...on-ponca-tribe

https://www.fema.gov/news-release/20...state-nebraska

You just dunked on like 95% of the thread with this. Good shit.

[luc54]

Shouldn't there be less water due to global warming and progressing aridification?

It doesn't only lead to desserts but some areas with more rainfall. You have higher temperatures thus the rate of evaporation is higher and that leads to more rainfall in some areas.

[Saucexorzski]

You just dunked on like 95% of the thread with this. Good shit.

i think most of them have me on ignore because i make them uncomfortable. Which is understandable as i make myself uncomfortable at times.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

global warming is the fault of all of this

[Skroe]

i think most of them have me on ignore because i make them uncomfortable. Which is understandable as i make myself uncomfortable at times.

No, it's because what you posted was irrelevant. The issue being discussed isn't that FEMA should offer relief, or that the Federal Government shouldn't come help flooded regions. Clearly it should.

The larger concern and discussion is whose responsibility it is to mitigate the risk of this happening again in the future. That should be Nebraskans, not the Feds. If they don't want to get flooded very year, they should pay for whatever they need to prevent that from happening.

[Saucexorzski]

No, it's because what you posted was irrelevant. The issue being discussed isn't that FEMA should offer relief, or that the Federal Government shouldn't come help flooded regions. Clearly it should.

The larger concern and discussion is whose responsibility it is to mitigate the risk of this happening again in the future. That should be Nebraskans, not the Feds. If they don't want to get flooded very year, they should pay for whatever they need to prevent that from happening.

Your desires of how it should be (and im in agreement with you on that by the way) doesn't really related to why i posted that. This thread was started under the guise that the fed isn't helping and the op lashed out at causes pushed by the left as the reason. Then folks chimed in with no it's trumps fault for not doing anything. What i posted proved that both the notion that the fed wasn't doing anything and that trump was to blame for that noting were wrong. so i'm in disagreement with you that what i posted being irrelevant given the context of the conversation at the time of its posting.

[PC2]

global warming is the fault of all of this

No, that's a common misconception. There are short-term local events and there is the long-term rise in the global temperature. A particular flood like this can't be attributed to global warming because global warming only deals with total averages.

[Rasulis]

I'll just link this article here to show people the extent of levee damage due to the Midwest floods.

Midwest Flood Debate: Funds for Levee Repair are No Sure Thing – DTN

Major Gen. Scott Spellmon, deputy commanding general for the Army Corps of Engineers Civil and Emergency Operations, told senators the current flood topped 32 federal levee systems or put them completely underwater, as well as causing 114 other breaches in levees. Highlighting the magnitude of the destruction, he said even to plug just two levees near Hamburg, Iowa, will take 100,000 dump trucks of material.

Spellmon also added that so much of the flooding occurred in unregulated rivers downstream from the Missouri River dams, such as the Platte River. The sheer volume of water in these rivers overwhelmed the levee system. The six upstream dams could not have prevented this, he said.

Given the response to this flood, Spellmon said it’s time to revisit 97 recommendations made after the 1993 flooding on the Missouri and Mississippi rivers (most were developed based on recommendations presented in Prof. Mustafa's JPL study). “We think it’s time to revisit some of these recommendations that have been brought to the basin before,” Spellmon said. He later added, “The solutions to reduce flood risks on the upper basin and the lower basin are not new.”

Most of those recommendations required changes in law, and most of them were ignored, largely because they would reduce local development in flood plains.

While senators and others who testified called for higher levee protection and more levees, Spellmon also noted the Corps currently has a $98 billion backlog of unfunded projects, of which roughly one-third are flood-control projects.

Hamburg, Iowa, Mayor Cathy Crain testified about having to take down a 13-foot emergency levee after the flood of 2011 that saved her town. To make the levee permanent and up to Corps standards, the town would have needed to raise $5.6 million, which it could not do. Now, 30% of the town’s homes and nearly 90% of businesses are underwater, which Crain said could have been avoided if the emergency levee had been there. Hamburg right now effectively has few local services.

The bottom line, there is no federal, state or local money to fix the damaged levees. Even if funds are available, repairs will take years, and won't be remotely completed before the next rain season.

[Elegiac]

They can repair it by cleaning up their own mess, rather than asking for more Blue state hand outs. And keep in mind, this position is ardently conservative. What it is, to the red states, is extremely inconvienent. The conservative position has key pillar in federalism, which as we'll recall, moves to the front that we live in 50 sovereign States as well as the United States. States should largely manage their own affairs.

Just to illustrate how badly the red states have fucked up as regards the goodwill they depend on to recover from disasters like this; in contrast to Skroe, I generally disfavor federal systems of government past a certain point (as in, they're useful during the early stages of a union or federation while cohesion is still being built) and am a proponent of strong, interventionist central government, but I am still pretty much indifferent to the situation in Nebraksa as he is.

At some point, you have to ask yourself...When does charity simply become enabling? The red states have long since made it clear they have no intention of attempting to remedy their miserable social and economic situations of their own volition, instead adhering to the same principles that bankrupted states like Kansas. More than that, they're constantly attempting to export their shitty moral and economic values to the rest of us.

We've talked at length about Iraq and the failure to implement democracy by fiat - and I think the same applies here. If the red states cannot be reasoned with on matters like climate change, wealth inequality, and infrastructure, then let them suffer the consequences until they are forced to see reason.

[Pentai]

Did that river used to be bigger long ago? Maybe the picture isn't clear enough but it seems that the town is overlapping a dried-up basin of a once much bigger river, which has now filled-up again to its true form.

[Saucexorzski]

Did that river used to be bigger long ago? Maybe the picture isn't clear enough but it seems that the town is overlapping a dried-up basin of a once much bigger river, which has now filled-up again to its true form.

there are historical records of it flooding liking this, its not a new thing, though one could make a case that its been flooding more often than in the past.

[gondrin]

Just to illustrate how badly the red states have fucked up as regards the goodwill they depend on to recover from disasters like this; in contrast to Skroe, I generally disfavor federal systems of government past a certain point (as in, they're useful during the early stages of a union or federation while cohesion is still being built) and am a proponent of strong, interventionist central government, but I am still pretty much indifferent to the situation in Nebraksa as he is.

At some point, you have to ask yourself...When does charity simply become enabling? The red states have long since made it clear they have no intention of attempting to remedy their miserable social and economic situations of their own volition, instead adhering to the same principles that bankrupted states like Kansas. More than that, they're constantly attempting to export their shitty moral and economic values to the rest of us.

We've talked at length about Iraq and the failure to implement democracy by fiat - and I think the same applies here. If the red states cannot be reasoned with on matters like climate change, wealth inequality, and infrastructure, then let them suffer the consequences until they are forced to see reason.

Honestly, if the flooding were only affecting Nebraska, then Nebraska should be fixing it. However, flooding doesn't just affect one place. Not sure if people forgot but said flooding will affect multiple states(flooding will continue to go downstream as it drains) and generally the entire nation in multiple ways.

Since Nebraska is one of the top corn producers in the country, both food costs(corn is fed to livestock and other farm animals as feed so meat will be also be affected) and fuel costs(nearly all gas in the country uses some ethanol in it) will go up due to it which will affect those that seem to think it wont. Yes, Nebraska should pay for their own maintenance and upkeep on infrastructure, however, when it comes to things that can affect the entire country, the federal government should step up in some fashion.

Funny thing is that we have those in this thread bash on those that think global warming isn't real and try to get them to understand how it will and the domino effect that it has but however do the exact same thought on this event that global warming deniers have. Shortsightedness is a bad trait and can have devastating effects.

[Rasulis]

Honestly, if the flooding were only affecting Nebraska, then Nebraska should be fixing it. However, flooding doesn't just affect one place. Not sure if people forgot but said flooding will affect multiple states(flooding will continue to go downstream as it drains) and generally the entire nation in multiple ways.

Since Nebraska is one of the top corn producers in the country, both food costs(corn is fed to livestock and other farm animals as feed so meat will be also be affected) and fuel costs(nearly all gas in the country uses some ethanol in it) will go up due to it which will affect those that seem to think it wont. Yes, Nebraska should pay for their own maintenance and upkeep on infrastructure, however, when it comes to things that can affect the entire country, the federal government should step up in some fashion.

Funny thing is that we have those in this thread bash on those that think global warming isn't real and try to get them to understand how it will and the domino effect that it has but however do the exact same thought on this event that global warming deniers have. Shortsightedness is a bad trait and can have devastating effects.

The problem with the US levee management system is that it is stupidly complicated and fractured. It needs a unified management system.

The Army Corps of Engineers oversees 2,148 levee systems totaling 14,150 miles. But there are many other small levees too, some privately owned, as well as a few operated by other federal agencies. The National Committee on Levee Safety estimates there are more than 100,000 miles of levees nationwide.
California has the most, with 9,144 miles of levees in 3,291 systems. The Mississippi and Missouri river basins in the Midwest and South are dotted with thousands of miles of levees. Missouri alone has 318 levee systems stretching a combined 2,038 miles.

The Corps of Engineers operates and maintains only a small percentage of levees, just some of the big ones. About 85 percent of the 14,150 miles of levees under the agency's oversight are actually operated by counties, cities or designated levee districts. The vast majority of the other 86,000 miles of levees have no federal oversight.

For non-federal levees, it's up to the operator to take care of maintenance, keeping drains and wells in working order and making sure the turf (and sometimes rock) isn't compromised. In times of flooding, it's also up to the local operator to patrol the levee, shore up any trouble spots with sandbags and to inform the community of any dangers.

There are states with thousands of miles of levees that have been running their safety and maintenance program with annual fund of less than 200k. Which obviously is not remotely sufficient.

[gondrin]

The problem with the US levee management system is that it is stupidly complicated and fractured. It needs a unified management system.

The Army Corps of Engineers oversees 2,148 levee systems totaling 14,150 miles. But there are many other small levees too, some privately owned, as well as a few operated by other federal agencies. The National Committee on Levee Safety estimates there are more than 100,000 miles of levees nationwide.
California has the most, with 9,144 miles of levees in 3,291 systems. The Mississippi and Missouri river basins in the Midwest and South are dotted with thousands of miles of levees. Missouri alone has 318 levee systems stretching a combined 2,038 miles.

The Corps of Engineers operates and maintains only a small percentage of levees, just some of the big ones. About 85 percent of the 14,150 miles of levees under the agency's oversight are actually operated by counties, cities or designated levee districts. The vast majority of the other 86,000 miles of levees have no federal oversight.

For non-federal levees, it's up to the operator to take care of maintenance, keeping drains and wells in working order and making sure the turf (and sometimes rock) isn't compromised. In times of flooding, it's also up to the local operator to patrol the levee, shore up any trouble spots with sandbags and to inform the community of any dangers.

There are states with thousands of miles of levees that have been running their safety and maintenance program with annual fund of less than 200k. Which obviously is not remotely sufficient.

While I am not a fan of more federal oversight, this is one of those things that needs it as it affects more just the local communities. Not for the small details type stuff but the major overarching things that would prevent(hopefully) some of the bigger issues. We have a federal department for education when all education is done on the local level, have a federal department for highway management when the vast majority of road maintenance is done on the local and state level but nothing for this. The only thing that even comes close is the EPA and that only deal with pollution and degradation of rivers and wetlands.

[Puzzlesocks]

Terrible analogy. You call 911 when you see something that the government (cops) is not aware of and then they handle it. It also costs virtually nothing.

If you're suggesting that I call the government to let them know that there were floods in Nebraska... they already know man.

It is more about people talking about it as a whole. As seen in this thread (once you ignore people blaming x political party), is that as a whole the levee and dam system in this country has serious issues. Some people are even trying to pretend that the flooding is literally only the first picture I posted, as if the river wouldn't flood anywhere else on its 2000 mile journey to the ocean.

We talk about things like this because it brings attention to topics that benefit all Americans and not specific subgroups. It leads to showing a problem that is not of a personal nature, and as such can have an easier solution. In the same way that we decided to spend an absurd amount of federal budget on building the interstate system for the good of everyone, it makes sense to spend money to keep multiple states from generating billions of dollars in damage in the short term, and who knows how much long term economic impact.

I compared this to pronouns and the border because we are talking about a disaster affecting millions of people instead of a couple thousand at the border or the .01% of people who might be assumed the wrong gender. It's about caring for the country as a whole instead of tunnel visioning hot button issues on the right or left.

[jeezusisacasual]

It is more about people talking about it as a whole. As seen in this thread (once you ignore people blaming x political party), is that as a whole the levee and dam system in this country has serious issues. Some people are even trying to pretend that the flooding is literally only the first picture I posted, as if the river wouldn't flood anywhere else on its 2000 mile journey to the ocean.

We talk about things like this because it brings attention to topics that benefit all Americans and not specific subgroups. It leads to showing a problem that is not of a personal nature, and as such can have an easier solution. In the same way that we decided to spend an absurd amount of federal budget on building the interstate system for the good of everyone, it makes sense to spend money to keep multiple states from generating billions of dollars in damage in the short term, and who knows how much long term economic impact.

I compared this to pronouns and the border because we are talking about a disaster affecting millions of people instead of a couple thousand at the border or the .01% of people who might be assumed the wrong gender. It's about caring for the country as a whole instead of tunnel visioning hot button issues on the right or left.

The tax base for alot of states has shrunk to the point that these kind of projects or needed infrastructure can not be fixed without outside help due to the way the tax structure is in this nation. It had to be assumed that the federal government would help with ailing dikes and levies at some point otherwise they would not have been built in the first place because lets be honest here no one ever thought my state ( Wyoming ) or in this case Nebraska would be future metro areas of the nation. This is not people bitching about pot holes at all but people losing their most important asset their home due to a lack of funding that they themselves had no real control over. Knowing what they know now i am sure their children or family wont try to place their home in those areas but what about those there now? Compassion is really lacking in this nation and it appears to get worse.

[Muzjhath]

The tax base for alot of states has shrunk to the point that these kind of projects or needed infrastructure can not be fixed without outside help due to the way the tax structure is in this nation. It had to be assumed that the federal government would help with ailing dikes and levies at some point otherwise they would not have been built in the first place because lets be honest here no one ever thought my state ( Wyoming ) or in this case Nebraska would be future metro areas of the nation. This is not people bitching about pot holes at all but people losing their most important asset their home due to a lack of funding that they themselves had no real control over. Knowing what they know now i am sure their children or family wont try to place their home in those areas but what about those there now? Compassion is really lacking in this nation and it appears to get worse.

I'd say in several cases the tax base hasn't shrunk.
In a lot of states the state government just stopped taxing people forgetting that you know. Infrastructure exists.

[Galactis]

Shoot, take a look at New Orleans. Each time a hurricane of significant size comes through, like 10 years ago and this new Barry storm. The whole place floods.. I mean, there's still places in New Orleans on Google maps, that were completely abandoned still today. I thought, I remember reading years ago when it got trashed 10 years ago that New Orleans is like 18 feet under water already.... I guess, the town was originally founded above water and it has been sinking ever since.... Shit, I would abandoned the place and move up river essentially. Building 20 feet underwater in an area next too the ocean and HUGELY affected by hurricanes every year. It just screams disaster for insurance companies and people.