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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Honestly, if the flooding were only affecting Nebraska, then Nebraska should be fixing it. However, flooding doesn't just affect one place. Not sure if people forgot but said flooding will affect multiple states(flooding will continue to go downstream as it drains) and generally the entire nation in multiple ways.

    Since Nebraska is one of the top corn producers in the country, both food costs(corn is fed to livestock and other farm animals as feed so meat will be also be affected) and fuel costs(nearly all gas in the country uses some ethanol in it) will go up due to it which will affect those that seem to think it wont. Yes, Nebraska should pay for their own maintenance and upkeep on infrastructure, however, when it comes to things that can affect the entire country, the federal government should step up in some fashion.

    Funny thing is that we have those in this thread bash on those that think global warming isn't real and try to get them to understand how it will and the domino effect that it has but however do the exact same thought on this event that global warming deniers have. Shortsightedness is a bad trait and can have devastating effects.
    The problem with the US levee management system is that it is stupidly complicated and fractured. It needs a unified management system.

    The Army Corps of Engineers oversees 2,148 levee systems totaling 14,150 miles. But there are many other small levees too, some privately owned, as well as a few operated by other federal agencies. The National Committee on Levee Safety estimates there are more than 100,000 miles of levees nationwide.
    California has the most, with 9,144 miles of levees in 3,291 systems. The Mississippi and Missouri river basins in the Midwest and South are dotted with thousands of miles of levees. Missouri alone has 318 levee systems stretching a combined 2,038 miles.

    The Corps of Engineers operates and maintains only a small percentage of levees, just some of the big ones. About 85 percent of the 14,150 miles of levees under the agency's oversight are actually operated by counties, cities or designated levee districts. The vast majority of the other 86,000 miles of levees have no federal oversight.

    For non-federal levees, it's up to the operator to take care of maintenance, keeping drains and wells in working order and making sure the turf (and sometimes rock) isn't compromised. In times of flooding, it's also up to the local operator to patrol the levee, shore up any trouble spots with sandbags and to inform the community of any dangers.

    There are states with thousands of miles of levees that have been running their safety and maintenance program with annual fund of less than 200k. Which obviously is not remotely sufficient.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The problem with the US levee management system is that it is stupidly complicated and fractured. It needs a unified management system.

    The Army Corps of Engineers oversees 2,148 levee systems totaling 14,150 miles. But there are many other small levees too, some privately owned, as well as a few operated by other federal agencies. The National Committee on Levee Safety estimates there are more than 100,000 miles of levees nationwide.
    California has the most, with 9,144 miles of levees in 3,291 systems. The Mississippi and Missouri river basins in the Midwest and South are dotted with thousands of miles of levees. Missouri alone has 318 levee systems stretching a combined 2,038 miles.

    The Corps of Engineers operates and maintains only a small percentage of levees, just some of the big ones. About 85 percent of the 14,150 miles of levees under the agency's oversight are actually operated by counties, cities or designated levee districts. The vast majority of the other 86,000 miles of levees have no federal oversight.

    For non-federal levees, it's up to the operator to take care of maintenance, keeping drains and wells in working order and making sure the turf (and sometimes rock) isn't compromised. In times of flooding, it's also up to the local operator to patrol the levee, shore up any trouble spots with sandbags and to inform the community of any dangers.

    There are states with thousands of miles of levees that have been running their safety and maintenance program with annual fund of less than 200k. Which obviously is not remotely sufficient.
    While I am not a fan of more federal oversight, this is one of those things that needs it as it affects more just the local communities. Not for the small details type stuff but the major overarching things that would prevent(hopefully) some of the bigger issues. We have a federal department for education when all education is done on the local level, have a federal department for highway management when the vast majority of road maintenance is done on the local and state level but nothing for this. The only thing that even comes close is the EPA and that only deal with pollution and degradation of rivers and wetlands.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlesocks View Post
    That's like saying it isn't your job to call 911 when you witness a crime because someone else might know more. How can the president be expected to send the budget towards relief aid if the country is screaming at him to spend it building more jail space for illegal immigrants?
    Terrible analogy. You call 911 when you see something that the government (cops) is not aware of and then they handle it. It also costs virtually nothing.

    If you're suggesting that I call the government to let them know that there were floods in Nebraska... they already know man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Terrible analogy. You call 911 when you see something that the government (cops) is not aware of and then they handle it. It also costs virtually nothing.

    If you're suggesting that I call the government to let them know that there were floods in Nebraska... they already know man.
    It is more about people talking about it as a whole. As seen in this thread (once you ignore people blaming x political party), is that as a whole the levee and dam system in this country has serious issues. Some people are even trying to pretend that the flooding is literally only the first picture I posted, as if the river wouldn't flood anywhere else on its 2000 mile journey to the ocean.

    We talk about things like this because it brings attention to topics that benefit all Americans and not specific subgroups. It leads to showing a problem that is not of a personal nature, and as such can have an easier solution. In the same way that we decided to spend an absurd amount of federal budget on building the interstate system for the good of everyone, it makes sense to spend money to keep multiple states from generating billions of dollars in damage in the short term, and who knows how much long term economic impact.

    I compared this to pronouns and the border because we are talking about a disaster affecting millions of people instead of a couple thousand at the border or the .01% of people who might be assumed the wrong gender. It's about caring for the country as a whole instead of tunnel visioning hot button issues on the right or left.
    “Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.”
    ― Lao Tzu

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlesocks View Post
    It is more about people talking about it as a whole. As seen in this thread (once you ignore people blaming x political party), is that as a whole the levee and dam system in this country has serious issues. Some people are even trying to pretend that the flooding is literally only the first picture I posted, as if the river wouldn't flood anywhere else on its 2000 mile journey to the ocean.

    We talk about things like this because it brings attention to topics that benefit all Americans and not specific subgroups. It leads to showing a problem that is not of a personal nature, and as such can have an easier solution. In the same way that we decided to spend an absurd amount of federal budget on building the interstate system for the good of everyone, it makes sense to spend money to keep multiple states from generating billions of dollars in damage in the short term, and who knows how much long term economic impact.

    I compared this to pronouns and the border because we are talking about a disaster affecting millions of people instead of a couple thousand at the border or the .01% of people who might be assumed the wrong gender. It's about caring for the country as a whole instead of tunnel visioning hot button issues on the right or left.
    The tax base for alot of states has shrunk to the point that these kind of projects or needed infrastructure can not be fixed without outside help due to the way the tax structure is in this nation. It had to be assumed that the federal government would help with ailing dikes and levies at some point otherwise they would not have been built in the first place because lets be honest here no one ever thought my state ( Wyoming ) or in this case Nebraska would be future metro areas of the nation. This is not people bitching about pot holes at all but people losing their most important asset their home due to a lack of funding that they themselves had no real control over. Knowing what they know now i am sure their children or family wont try to place their home in those areas but what about those there now? Compassion is really lacking in this nation and it appears to get worse.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    The tax base for alot of states has shrunk to the point that these kind of projects or needed infrastructure can not be fixed without outside help due to the way the tax structure is in this nation. It had to be assumed that the federal government would help with ailing dikes and levies at some point otherwise they would not have been built in the first place because lets be honest here no one ever thought my state ( Wyoming ) or in this case Nebraska would be future metro areas of the nation. This is not people bitching about pot holes at all but people losing their most important asset their home due to a lack of funding that they themselves had no real control over. Knowing what they know now i am sure their children or family wont try to place their home in those areas but what about those there now? Compassion is really lacking in this nation and it appears to get worse.
    I'd say in several cases the tax base hasn't shrunk.
    In a lot of states the state government just stopped taxing people forgetting that you know. Infrastructure exists.
    - Lars

  7. #187
    Shoot, take a look at New Orleans. Each time a hurricane of significant size comes through, like 10 years ago and this new Barry storm. The whole place floods.. I mean, there's still places in New Orleans on Google maps, that were completely abandoned still today. I thought, I remember reading years ago when it got trashed 10 years ago that New Orleans is like 18 feet under water already.... I guess, the town was originally founded above water and it has been sinking ever since.... Shit, I would abandoned the place and move up river essentially. Building 20 feet underwater in an area next too the ocean and HUGELY affected by hurricanes every year. It just screams disaster for insurance companies and people.

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