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  1. #81
    I play ret in M+ as 442ilvl, i've done my fair shares of 12-17 keys and i can tell you the bad bad stuff about the spec (and the good)

    Most of their utility is only useful in a small amount of circumstances, they were ok last week with necrotic and bursting because WoG and bop can be very handy, other than that it has almost no use other than saving yourself.

    they have no good CC for dungeons, so no aoe stuns unless they are undead/demon, if they choose blinding light it has a fucking 2 min cd.

    Now the damage, single target, yea they're decent i'm almost always on top on bosses, but M+ is all about the trash, Rets AOE during wings can obliterate packs with the right traits, but outside of it you can often be very low on dps unless you get lucky with divine purpose/emp power procs, at higher keys you need high consistent dps on all packs.

    but overall the utility of other melee just outshines us (except dps warrior)

  2. #82
    You'll see every dps spec complaining about mythic except for leather melee and that's because there's a ridiculous bias towards them from the dev team. They have no downsides including cc, massive aoe, single target, ridiculous utility and self sustain. Plate classes as a whole need to have some utterly broken mechanic like arms seismic slam or ret unnerfed empyrean power/light's decree or unholy with no aoe cap to even compete.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  3. #83
    Because class design is at its worst.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Nails it on the head. Melee have a lot of disadvantages, but rogues have enough nigh mandatory utility to counteract that.
    You have it backwards, it's ranged that aren't wanted. They're slow, they have to cast to deal damage, they're squishy still in the game, they have slow ramp up and have to stop dpsing to move unless you're a BM hunter.
    Melee dominate M+, it's a fact, after rogue comes DH, after DH comes Monk, only after these 3 do groups start bringing ranged, and then it's typically Mage/Hunter > Ele shaman > warlock > Shadow priest
    Dk/Ret/Ench just don't even bother, why bring any of these melee when you can bring a rogue/dh or monk and there's always one.


    However this isn't WoW, it's EVERY mmo, every MMO has 1-3 classes/jobs that dominate that everyone wants and if you don't play any of these you're on the bench. My first MMO was FFXI back in 2002-2005 and if you weren't a caster, you didn't get invites, it was the opposite, no one wanted melee, ever, melee hit mobs that caused them to build TP which allowed mobs/bosses to do special abilities that can wipe the group.
    FFXIV is typically the same, ranged are wanted over melee but atleast melee can stand their ground on the meters.
    Blade and soul, same thing, ranged dominated pve and PVP
    SWTOR, ranged classes do more damage than the melee and dngs are easier with more bounty hunters than Mara Sith


    WoW is like the only MMO where playing a melee is in your best interest.
    Last edited by dipzz; 2019-08-25 at 03:27 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    You'll see every dps spec complaining about mythic except for leather melee and that's because there's a ridiculous bias towards them from the dev team. They have no downsides including cc, massive aoe, single target, ridiculous utility and self sustain. Plate classes as a whole need to have some utterly broken mechanic like arms seismic slam or ret unnerfed empyrean power/light's decree or unholy with no aoe cap to even compete.
    dude...like...srsly

    go to one of the leather melee forums and watch how they are also qqing.
    Even the rogues are qqing^^
    Chances are pretty low that the dev team will be like " Seems like paladins and warriors are doing pretty good on the meters right now...think we gotta have an extra meeting on friday to make sure that this won't go on"

    Like...come on that's ridiculous

  6. #86
    When picking DPS I'm less likely to pick a Ret paladin for the slot than a different burst melee, because they never manage their threat levels where other classes do.
    Most ret paladins will blow all their CD's on CD at the beginning of pulls and give no time for the tank to pick up threat, often times they don't even have time to bubble or bop themselves before the threat gen from their 300k+ burst kills them.

    Which the burst is nice.... if they would give tanks a moment to get threat before bursting it and only living for 3 seconds.

    (I also main a Prot Paladin so I know how it goes with Paladins and that each of those rets could be playing better and managing their threat levels instead of ballz to the wallz on pull.)

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Rogues windwalkers and Havoc are much more represented, so every time you queue there are probably one of those also queued for each ret. Also ret simply lacks utility compared to rogue/ww/havoc.
    did I miss something? Since when can you queue for Mythic Dungeons?

  8. #88
    Mechagnome sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    did I miss something? Since when can you queue for Mythic Dungeons?
    I -> Premade Groups -> Dungeons

  9. #89
    Good news: It might become slightly better for us in next season, when the new affix makes rogues less obligatory.... but then again a certain potion did that up till now also.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    its the 90% of Ret Paladins that dont respec out of selfless healer and into word of glory that kill it for the 2% that are worth a shit. The other 8% do respec but are unwilling to sacrifice 1-2k dps to heal the group with word of glory when they should. In anything 12 and under group come doesnt matter
    Wait, people don't use word of glory???????

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    Good news: It might become slightly better for us in next season, when the new affix makes rogues less obligatory.... but then again a certain potion did that up till now also.
    The days of bringing Rogues only for Shroud are long over. Outlaw has outright stupid AoE burst potential and it's up basically every time you need it.

  12. #92
    Right, because it's so damn complicated to run your own keys.
    It's so complicated to start an m0, get a key and then go from there as high as you can.
    You don't even have to lead the group, tanks most usually know where to go.

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