Shaman additional alliance race petition

[gr4vitas]

Thats true, even though i never really understood how bans on those programs worked. Like streamers using em for a LONG time without getting banned and other reports for people getting banned. Like you could litterally see streamers use it.

Yea I do recall a time when streamers would be blatantly using it for a long long time without a ban so I don't really know.

[Sjemiel]

Yea I do recall a time when streamers would be blatantly using it for a long long time without a ban so I don't really know.

I wouldn't risk it either though tbh

[CrawlFromThePit]

Lmao okay now that we've come full circle on that, I don't disagree with the notion that some form of cross faction play would be good. And yes it solves my (now acknowledged by you) problem of alliance shaman having too few races to choose from.



And then this is when I say (because your claiming objectivity on the matter), okay prove to me 'mathematically' how factions are bad for the game. And don't just quote that more people play horde than alliance and thats causing an imbalance. Prove how thats objectively bad, with facts. I'm expecting some real data, like sub numbers that perhaps correlate directly with the growing faction imbalance etc.

You know sub data is not available anymore, don't ask for things that don't exist just to try to say "see you can't prove it". What's amazing about the human mind is that we can use it to analyze things and come to solid conclusion about things without relying on "official research" which by the way are made by other human beings who use their minds to come to conclusions.

Facts exists without being tied to a scientific research. Apples were fruit before the word fruit was invented and before people decided to split fruits and vegetables.

That being said, the growing problem of faction imbalance is something that existed since forever mainly because of racial abilities not giving the same amount of power to both factions, aka design flaw. Even the Blood Elf racial that used to silence everything was OP in Legion where there was a bunch of stuff to silence at once was "nerfed" to now dispell a bunch of stuff at once, to keep it relevant they added a bunch of pulls in dungeons where mass dispelling enemies with it becomes just as strong as the mas interrupt it once was, so it was effectively never nerfed like it should have.

That's just one example, I'm not gonna go down the list of every single racial abilities in the game but overall this has been an issue favoring horde for the longest time, this caused many players who enjoy min-maxing to end up on that side. As such, a snowball effect happened and now there's more People on horde, but not only more people, more GOOD players, when you dedicate yourself to the game with min maxing in mind, you're not some random clown, you have more talent than average.

The second step of that snowball is the way people compete with each other in dmg meter or just performance in general, people want to be top. When everone around you is better, it pushes you to get even better. You can easily see this by joining different guilds in different level of progression and skills, if you try to be the top in a low lvl guild you'll get it easy and be satisfied with your result, when you join a higher level guild you'll realize you weren't doing as well as you thought because you were exposed to lower level people, altering your perspective about your own performance. So with horde having more better players, it creates a second level of improvement that further increases the gap between horde and alliance.

This becomes even more of a problem when warmode is introduced, giving bonuses for participating but basically preventing one side from playing it because they get outnumbered all the time. This in turn causes issues like empty shard where horde is literally alone and Blizzard needs to CHANGE THEIR DESIGN for the pvp event of Nazjatar because there's NOT ENOUGH ALLIANCE PARTICIPATING COMPARED TO THE AMOUNT OF HORDE.

It has been reported many times by alliance players that it's increasingly difficult overall to find people to recruit or just to group with, however not something horde players are saying.

Of course PvP has also been an issue for a long time, blizzard tried to fix this by giving humans a retarded OP racial, enough people cried to change it, now orcs are still OP with their stun resist. To make arena queues less cancerous Blizzard was forced to allow people of same factions to fight each other, the result? People love it, why not make this the entire game like I'm suggesting? Horde BG queues are still something you need to put on your calendar because they're so long, Alliance get instant queue because there's obvious imbalance.

I don't have research papers or links to things that don't matter. You know that everything I said is true, because none of it are things I think. They are things that exist and I merely write them down. Asking for scientific proof of things that have never been scientifically studied is just trying to dismiss obvious facts based on the broken concept that things cannot be facts before being proven scientifically.
I don't need a research paper to tell me a red apple is red, just like I don't need a research paper to tell me factions are negatively impacting the game, it's just as easy to see.

[gr4vitas]

You know sub data is not available anymore, don't ask for things that don't exist just to try to say "see you can't prove it". What's amazing about the human mind is that we can use it to analyze things and come to solid conclusion about things without relying on "official research" which by the way are made by other human beings who use their minds to come to conclusions.

Facts exists without being tied to a scientific research. Apples were fruit before the word fruit was invented and before people decided to split fruits and vegetables.

That being said, the growing problem of faction imbalance is something that existed since forever mainly because of racial abilities not giving the same amount of power to both factions, aka design flaw. Even the Blood Elf racial that used to silence everything was OP in Legion where there was a bunch of stuff to silence at once was "nerfed" to now dispell a bunch of stuff at once, to keep it relevant they added a bunch of pulls in dungeons where mass dispelling enemies with it becomes just as strong as the mas interrupt it once was, so it was effectively never nerfed like it should have.

That's just one example, I'm not gonna go down the list of every single racial abilities in the game but overall this has been an issue favoring horde for the longest time, this caused many players who enjoy min-maxing to end up on that side. As such, a snowball effect happened and now there's more People on horde, but not only more people, more GOOD players, when you dedicate yourself to the game with min maxing in mind, you're not some random clown, you have more talent than average.

The second step of that snowball is the way people compete with each other in dmg meter or just performance in general, people want to be top. When everone around you is better, it pushes you to get even better. You can easily see this by joining different guilds in different level of progression and skills, if you try to be the top in a low lvl guild you'll get it easy and be satisfied with your result, when you join a higher level guild you'll realize you weren't doing as well as you thought because you were exposed to lower level people, altering your perspective about your own performance. So with horde having more better players, it creates a second level of improvement that further increases the gap between horde and alliance.

This becomes even more of a problem when warmode is introduced, giving bonuses for participating but basically preventing one side from playing it because they get outnumbered all the time. This in turn causes issues like empty shard where horde is literally alone and Blizzard needs to CHANGE THEIR DESIGN for the pvp event of Nazjatar because there's NOT ENOUGH ALLIANCE PARTICIPATING COMPARED TO THE AMOUNT OF HORDE.

It has been reported many times by alliance players that it's increasingly difficult overall to find people to recruit or just to group with, however not something horde players are saying.

Of course PvP has also been an issue for a long time, blizzard tried to fix this by giving humans a retarded OP racial, enough people cried to change it, now orcs are still OP with their stun resist. To make arena queues less cancerous Blizzard was forced to allow people of same factions to fight each other, the result? People love it, why not make this the entire game like I'm suggesting? Horde BG queues are still something you need to put on your calendar because they're so long, Alliance get instant queue because there's obvious imbalance.

I don't have research papers or links to things that don't matter. You know that everything I said is true, because none of it are things I think. They are things that exist and I merely write them down. Asking for scientific proof of things that have never been scientifically studied is just trying to dismiss obvious facts based on the broken concept that things cannot be facts before being proven scientifically.
I don't need a research paper to tell me a red apple is red, just like I don't need a research paper to tell me factions are negatively impacting the game, it's just as easy to see.

And not a shred of "objective mathematical" proof. Don't claim silly things.

All of the above is your opinion. Others opinion might be completely different and just as valid.

[TigTone]

I like how you complain about gnome hunters and their pets being too big yet you see every other hunter run around with animals that lore wise are also bigger then their owner.

Dinosaurs and trolls anyone

[gr4vitas]

I like how you complain about gnome hunters and their pets being too big yet you see every other hunter run around with animals that lore wise are also bigger then their owner.

Dinosaurs and trolls anyone

Jesus christ, the reading comprehension on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

I wasn't complaining about gnomes being hunters. I don't give a shit about gnomes being hunters, I was using them as a great example of a dumb class / race restriction holy shit.

There was a reason lore / class fantasy wise that gnomes weren't hunters for 10 years. If we can open up that restriction we should open up a lot of other dumb restrictions too.

[TigTone]

Jesus christ, the reading comprehension on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

I wasn't complaining about gnomes being hunters. I don't give a shit about gnomes being hunters, I was using them as a great example of a dumb class / race restriction holy shit.

There was a reason lore / class fantasy wise that gnomes weren't hunters for 10 years. If we can open up that restriction we should open up a lot of other dumb restrictions too.

I understood your post, just wanted to complain about your example. We poster nick pick everything. I learned it from lurking here.

I do agree about the restrictions. At this point they don't make sense. The whole of Azeroth is connected.
In legion we saw the class halls come together and recruit anyone they could. That alone should allow for more of every class for every race.

Plus regular human shaman would be amazing I would change my fat guy to one instantly.

[Wangming]

Well if Blizzard can asspull a tauren paladin I'm pretty sure any race could be made to fit shamans. Shamen?

[CrawlFromThePit]

And not a shred of "objective mathematical" proof. Don't claim silly things.

All of the above is your opinion. Others opinion might be completely different and just as valid.

Now you're the one making silly claim, first by saying that what I said was opinion, it's not, I'm stating what happened and what is happening in the game right now. Not what I'm thinking. Secondly making the claim that other people's opinion could be different but just as valid, that is a complete lie because if their opinion is different from the facts that I stated it means they are wrong by default. The only way to be valid is to recognize the facts, like I do. I don't decide any of this and I don't think it, it exists and I mention it, if something different existed I would be saying something different.

The mathematical proof is that my suggestion solves more issues than yours, more = greater number, by definition is mathematically superior. Nothing you can say against that, it's an objective truth. I never said I had mathematical proof of the faction imbalance, that was your switcheroo in a pathetic attempt to win an internet argument that never existed in the first place.
Don't misunderstand what is happening here, this is not an argument, this is a lesson. You have the choice to learn or stay wrong, my stance cannot change since it is rooted in reality, not in perception like you. I'm not trying to win, I have nothing to win because I already know the answer. You're the only one who has something to win here and it's by changing your wrong thought process. However, this is a free country, you're free to keep believing what you want, you're free to refuse to learn and free to stay wrong, you're free to think that standing your ground is a win when it's not. The only thing I can do about that is spread the message, I have done that.

I understand you're frustrated but that's the worst possible moment to try and argue, you end up talking nonsense like "others opinion might be completely different and just as valid" which is intellectually disingenuous or playing semantics and mental gymnastic to preserve something that has no value: internet ego.
You see it just like I do, factions are a problem but to strengthen your stance you have to dismiss this information. That's a mistake.

[gr4vitas]

Now you're the one making silly claim, first by saying that what I said was opinion, it's not, I'm stating what happened and what is happening in the game right now. Not what I'm thinking. Secondly making the claim that other people's opinion could be different but just as valid, that is a complete lie because if their opinion is different from the facts that I stated it means they are wrong by default. The only way to be valid is to recognize the facts, like I do. I don't decide any of this and I don't think it, it exists and I mention it, if something different existed I would be saying something different.

The mathematical proof is that my suggestion solves more issues than yours, more = greater number, by definition is mathematically superior. Nothing you can say against that, it's an objective truth. I never said I had mathematical proof of the faction imbalance, that was your switcheroo in a pathetic attempt to win an internet argument that never existed in the first place.
Don't misunderstand what is happening here, this is not an argument, this is a lesson. You have the choice to learn or stay wrong, my stance cannot change since it is rooted in reality, not in perception like you. I'm not trying to win, I have nothing to win because I already know the answer. You're the only one who has something to win here and it's by changing your wrong thought process. However, this is a free country, you're free to keep believing what you want, you're free to refuse to learn and free to stay wrong, you're free to think that standing your ground is a win when it's not. The only thing I can do about that is spread the message, I have done that.

I understand you're frustrated but that's the worst possible moment to try and argue, you end up talking nonsense like "others opinion might be completely different and just as valid" which is intellectually disingenuous or playing semantics and mental gymnastic to preserve something that has no value: internet ego.
You see it just like I do, factions are a problem but to strengthen your stance you have to dismiss this information. That's a mistake.

Your avatar is apt.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Your avatar is apt.

Didn't expect more than that from someone who has nothing of value to say.

[voxnor]

We have Kul Titans. That's all the race we ever need.

Hail to my fat shaman!

[gr4vitas]

Didn't expect more than that from someone who has nothing of value to say.

Just didn't feel like reading yet another wall of justification from you.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Just didn't feel like reading yet another wall of justification from you.

It's called a lesson, get it right.

[therealbowser]

Okay, we'll make gnomes a shaman, just to add to your saltiness for not being able to play as your generic night elf or human on every class.

I mean almost every race on the Alliance can be a shaman now, and you're making a big deal because elves and skinny humans can't be one. Sorry, I just can't take this thread seriously.

If we're going to add new class options, we need to add paladins. The game needs more paladins in general. Night elf paladins have been hinted at, and worgen paladins should have always been a thing. (Gilneans have had connections to the light, and worgen haven't been shown to be unable to use the light, as we've seen from their priests.)

[gr4vitas]

Okay, we'll make gnomes a shaman, just to add to your saltiness for not being able to play as your generic night elf or human on every class.

I mean almost every race on the Alliance can be a shaman now, and you're making a big deal because elves and skinny humans can't be one. Sorry, I just can't take this thread seriously.

If we're going to add new class options, we need to add paladins. The game needs more paladins in general. Night elf paladins have been hinted at, and worgen paladins should have always been a thing. (Gilneans have had connections to the light, and worgen haven't been shown to be unable to use the light, as we've seen from their priests.)

I'll take gnomes happily. I never said all I wanted was the 'generic human and night elf'. In fact, if you had read, you'd see that what I specifically said was that I'm tired of playing fat races or a space goat.

How is 3 alliance races almost every alliance race?

- - - Updated - - -

It's called a lesson, get it right.

A lesson in what? How not to win an argument with facts? If you recall I asked for you to give me some facts to support your argument of factions being bad for the game. You provided no such facts.

[Nasuuna]

Since blood elves cannot be shamans, I doubt that'll solve anything, most people who have issue with "lack of race options" only want to play humans / elves.

i want to play space goats but cant find an alliance guild.

suppose thats a different issue tho

[Marrilaife]

Okay, we'll make gnomes a shaman, just to add to your saltiness for not being able to play as your generic night elf or human on every class.

I mean almost every race on the Alliance can be a shaman now, and you're making a big deal because elves and skinny humans can't be one. Sorry, I just can't take this thread seriously.

Well it's basically the same as horde players asking for blood elf druids or shamans. Why do you think blood elves are the most popular race in total. You could have 30 non-humanlike races in the game and people would complain about "lack of choice", but you could have "humans vs pointy ear humans" and they'd be fine.

One reason why I don't believe we'll ever get races that are far away from human body shape like murlocs, naga, hozen, centaur, dryad, draconid or whatever other fanfic people ask for. Recolored humans sell (see: void elves), less humanlike races are very niche (like goblins or pandas).

When warlocks had only 2 options on alliance back in the days (until Cata when Dwarf / Worgen was added) nobody complained, because if it can be human, that's fine. Meanwhile people cried loudly for human hunters (and basically human everything, including shamans and druids). Kul Tirans were Blizzard's answer to "human everything". Guess next thing is petition for human demon hunters.

[CrawlFromThePit]

A lesson in what? How not to win an argument with facts? If you recall I asked for you to give me some facts to support your argument of factions being bad for the game. You provided no such facts.

I did, you simply decided they were not facts. There's nothing I said that was a lie, it's all true and happening in the game right now. It's common knowledge, you know it too, but you're so stuck up on trying to win this "argument" that in order to win you have to dismiss what I say because you know I'm right. It's just fucking idiotic and a waste of time.

If you claim that what I said is wrong then you must have evidence of it. Otherwise you're worse than me, I explained why my statements are right, you didn't give anything of value to prove the contrary.

[therealbowser]

I'll take gnomes happily. I never said all I wanted was the 'generic human and night elf'. In fact, if you had read, you'd see that what I specifically said was that I'm tired of playing fat races or a space goat.

How is 3 alliance races almost every alliance race?

Then color me surprised. Dwarves are not a "fat race", however. And 99% of players are satisfied with draenei, dwarves, or kul tirans. I kind of stand by what I was saying but if you are okay with gnomes you can't be too bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Well it's basically the same as horde players asking for blood elf druids or shamans. Why do you think blood elves are the most popular race in total. You could have 30 non-humanlike races in the game and people would complain about "lack of choice", but you could have "humans vs pointy ear humans" and they'd be fine.

One reason why I don't believe we'll ever get races that are far away from human body shape like murlocs, naga, hozen, centaur, dryad, draconid or whatever other fanfic people ask for. Recolored humans sell (see: void elves), less humanlike races are very niche (like goblins or pandas).

When warlocks had only 2 options on alliance back in the days (until Cata when Dwarf / Worgen was added) nobody complained, because if it can be human, that's fine. Meanwhile people cried loudly for human hunters (and basically human everything, including shamans and druids). Kul Tirans were Blizzard's answer to "human everything". Guess next thing is petition for human demon hunters.

Well people have long since petitioned for human demon hunters. I actually think demon hunters need another race, but I'm of the opinion that nightborne and void elves are the best options for that. But hey, I digress, and it's not like it's likely to ever happen anyways. Either way, I agree on the bits about humans to a large extent.