Having a M+ that wasn't timed?

[Flurryfang]

I think the Mega dungeons are already filling that challenge really. They are hard dungeons when they come out, you get a great experience taking them on for the first 5 times and then you can leave them alone.

I think if you are really looking for a hard challenge in dungeons, where there is no timer......Then just time out a really high key If can't beat a +13 timer, then you won't really have the stats to beat a +15 without a timer. The bosses often seem to me as the deciding factor in a M+ run. Also, the timer is not really anything other than a sudo-enrage for the bosses in that dungeon. Can't beat the dungeon in the appointed time? Then the bosses would have enraged if you had tried to do it without a timer.


So im really curious where OP, and anybody interested in his idea, sees something missing from the current Mega Dungeon and M+ experience, especially when you count in just having timers run out on high M+.

[Flurryfang]

Challenge modes were better than M+ imo

Challenge modes were BS, filled with changed 1-shot mechanics, with jumping up the difficulty level insanely much while also messing up your stats.

[Flurryfang]

What I wish they did is to remove the keystone and let you do chose what dungeon and m+ level you want to do. Maybe you would have to a key on time to unlock higher levels of m+, similar to how greater rifts work.

If you could choose the dungeon, people would just do 1 single dungeon all the time and the experience would become insanely tedious. But i am very much in favor of being able to choose a M+ level. I often find myself with a +13, when i could really just use some relaxed +6 with some guildies.

[Equoowe]

Challenge modes were better than M+ imo

All I did in WoD was challenge mode realm best times and carries, Mythic+ is awful, nobody in the group of 5-6 people I did CM's with likes them either.

Challenge modes were BS, filled with changed 1-shot mechanics, with jumping up the difficulty level insanely much while also messing up your stats.

Stand in stuff and you die, there is a lot more of that in Mythic+ because it can scale so high that pretty much getting hit by anything is death, there weren't really that many punishing pulls/bosses in CM's.

[A Chozo]

Sometimes I wonder if they should implement an option to modify a Keystone into a "timeless" version.

Example: You get a Keystone Tol Dagor +10, but it has an effect that reads "Use: Modify this Keystone into a Timeless Keystone. Once it's on the pedestal, it can't be reduced into a inferior Keystone, but it also can't be increased beyond a +10, and the dungeon won't have a timer. It can be transformed into a regular Keystone again, but only if it's not in use."

[Nnyco]

Challenge modes were better than M+ imo

On the contrary, yes the rewards were nice with cool xmogs and teleports, but the fact you got scaled down to heroic dungeon ilvl made alot of specs really bad or even useless since they required a certain amount of stats like a haste cap for example. Not to mention the replayability was non-existant, unless you sold boosts.

[Freighter]

So instead of making use of your class' ability to completely remove the mechanic(especially relevant on HM), you'd leave the group? Interesting attitude.

If people can't do something as simple as moving from slow-moving bots, why should I boost them?

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Challenge modes were BS, filled with changed 1-shot mechanics, with jumping up the difficulty level insanely much while also messing up your stats.

Lmao, what? Challenge modes gave nice looking gear but they were easy and boring as hell.

[Elkfingers]

I would be all for this.

That's not because I can't do M+. That's not the issue at all. The real problem with M+ for me is that having a completely arbitrary timer is completely incompatible with being immersed in an RPG. Enrage timers on Mythic bosses are consistent with boss design - they do a thing and you all die. There's no logic whatsoever to coming in either over or under a timer. It's also a lazy, awful way to recycle content and milk the esports dollar.

99% of the reason I no longer play (which is a real shame because I loved this game for years) is that it's barely recognisable as an RPG. Take me back to EQ2.

The only thing that remains is having anxiety issue because there's a timer in the screen, this is not a game issue, it's a YOU problem, you're not supposed to have this kind of feeling, you have personnal issues that you need to adress, either by fixing them or finding a game doesn't make you feel that way.

Imagine projecting this hard.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Imagine projecting this hard.

Imagine being so offended by an internet comment that you have to make the assumption that it's projecting instead of understanding the fact that there are people who truly have anxiety issues of that magnitude. Not only that, but you believe it's an insult and try to turn this around on the poster instead of being considerate to people suffering from anxiety, and most likely can't even think that far because of how infuriated the comment made you.

[Elkfingers]

Imagine being so offended by an internet comment that you have to make the assumption that it's projecting instead of understanding the fact that there are people who truly have anxiety issues of that magnitude. Not only that, but you believe it's an insult and try to turn this around on the poster instead of being considerate to people suffering from anxiety, and most likely can't even think that far because of how infuriated the comment made you.

Wow that's a lot of inference there, buddy. Here's the thing - I have had extremely up close and personal experience of severe anxiety as I watched it tear somebody I loved apart over and over again. Following that, I got the anxiety experience first-hand too.

What I personally found insulting was that you would leverage that condition in order to justify a totally facile point about a video game. Somebody feeling a bit anxious about a time limit is in no way a good basis to remotely diagnose somebody over the internet, because you lack any and all necessary context as to why that might be. Over and above that, if that's about as serious as the symptoms get then 'seek help' is a little premature of you, and the fact that you would reduce anxiety to something so trivial frankly does a disservice to anybody with any kind of lived experience of the condition. What you've done here is reduced 'anxiety of magnitude' to 'being a bit worried about timers' (hence my accusation of projection, read: being a bit worried =/= anxiety =/= me thinking either accusing you of of having anxiety would be ok, or that it would be a legit insult to do so.). Come back once you've seen somebody fully dissociate.

If you know how anxiety works, you know that what you're saying is horseshit. If you don't, then the fact that you're pretending to is horrendous. I'll let you decide which is worse. I'm honestly shocked that your immediate response was to try to occupy some imaginary high-ground which you demonstrably have no claim to.

By the way, big shoutout to 'you're not supposed to have this kind of feeling'. Way to judge the fuck out of somebody with anxiety and deny their reality. That really helps, I hear. You're a considerate dude. The implication also being here that said anxiety sufferer hasn't tried to seek help, which they almost certainly have.

I'm going to stop going back and editing now because if I don't I'll just keep finding more reasons why literally everything you're saying is mad problematic.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Wow that's a lot of inference there, buddy. Here's the thing - I have had extremely up close and personal experience of severe anxiety as I watched it tear somebody I loved apart over and over again. Following that, I got the anxiety experience first-hand too.

What I personally found insulting was that you would leverage that condition in order to justify a totally facile point about a video game. Somebody feeling a bit anxious about a time limit is in no way a good basis to remotely diagnose somebody over the internet, because you lack any and all necessary context as to why that might be. Over and above that, if that's about as serious as the symptoms get then 'seek help' is a little premature of you, and the fact that you would reduce anxiety to something so trivial frankly does a disservice to anybody with any kind of lived experience of the condition. What you've done here is reduced 'anxiety of magnitude' to 'being a bit worried'. Come back once you've seen somebody fully dissociate.

If you know how anxiety works, you know that what you're saying is horseshit. If you don't, then the fact that you're pretending to is horrendous. I'll let you decide which is worse. I'm honestly shocked that your immediate response was to try to occupy some imaginary high-ground which you demonstrably have no claim to.

By the way, big shoutout to 'you're not supposed to have this kind of feeling'. Way to judge the fuck out of somebody with anxiety and deny their reality. That really helps, I hear. You're a considerate dude.

There are games that exist with no timer, there's also people who enjoy the thrill of doing timed things.

So people who want timed thing play that, and those who don't go play something else. Seriously what's hard to understand there? Should there be no peanut butter just because there's people allergic to it?

I'm not denying anyone's reality, they just need to learn to live with it there's already options for them they don't need to take things away from other people just because they see themselves like victims.

I have issues too, I live with them, adapt and find my own things, I don't beg for others to change everything to better suit me, I refuse to be that selfish and weak.

[Elkfingers]

There are games that exist with no timer, there's also people who enjoy the thrill of doing timed things.

So people who want timed thing play that, and those who don't go play something else. Seriously what's hard to understand there? Should there be no peanut butter just because there's people allergic to it?

I'm not denying anyone's reality, they just need to learn to live with it there's already options for them they don't need to take things away from other people just because they see themselves like victims.

I have issues too, I live with them, adapt and find my own things, I don't beg for others to change everything to better suit me, I refuse to be that selfish and weak.

I'm happy for you. Not to trivialise whatever it is that you deal with, but realise that you're lucky enough to possess the capacity to live with it and adapt to the extent that you don't need to rely on the support of others. What a fucking relief that is.

Given that you're saying here that you know what it is to have shit to deal with, it's not much of a leap to have empathy for those whose shitpile is considerably larger than your own.

'You just need to learn to live with this' is really better worded as 'you need to learn to live with your shit like I learned to live with mine'. The problem is that your shit isn't the same as other people's shit. For example their problem might be that their anxiety is an inescapable horrorshow which forms the entire basis of their conscious experience and is so viscerally real to them that rationality falls entirely by the wayside despite their best efforts to make intentional change; learning to live with it is not an option in all cases. To be completely blunt, sometimes the choice is suffering or suicide.

I can't put into words how callous it is to look at people who are clearly suffering more than you and to brand them 'selfish and weak' rather than recognising how much pain they're in, or how much support they might actually need. Honestly you should never talk about mental health issues ever again without getting an infinitely better understanding of what they ential.

Regardless, this is way off topic and I've said everything that I'm realistically going to say about it.

[Flurryfang]

All I did in WoD was challenge mode realm best times and carries, Mythic+ is awful, nobody in the group of 5-6 people I did CM's with likes them either.



Stand in stuff and you die, there is a lot more of that in Mythic+ because it can scale so high that pretty much getting hit by anything is death, there weren't really that many punishing pulls/bosses in CM's.

Its okay with Mythic+, becasue you slowly get to a point where the abilities kill you. In MoP, heroic dungeons were a joke, but CMs jumped directly to "Die, just die!" mode.

And then, the entire thing with normalizing stats was terrible. Your character litereally played different in CM than in any other content and there was no way to practice.

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If people can't do something as simple as moving from slow-moving bots, why should I boost them?

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Lmao, what? Challenge modes gave nice looking gear but they were easy and boring as hell.

Easy for you maybe, but not for pretty much anybody else. It was just bad content.

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

Would you enjoy a type of Mythic Dungeons where it wasn't timed, the mechanics were just crazy tough and each boss dropped a piece of gear?
For example, completing a M+ 20 would be as difficult as killing a Mythic raid boss

LOL its basically free then, the hard part of Mythic Boss is coordinating 20 people and the rest is pretty much waiting until no one effed up the encounter.

Think about Stormwall Mythic where more than half of the raid is basically only stand, dps and avoid swirly, or Mekk, or pretty much all Mythic boss at this point.

5 man and each boss drop gear? Thats way too generous

There are games that exist with no timer, there's also people who enjoy the thrill of doing timed things.

Yea but in those game you actually lose if you dont make the timer, in WOW you can smell the rose and failed the timer you'll still get loot anyway.

Just ignore the timer if you're trash.

[Equoowe]

Its okay with Mythic+, becasue you slowly get to a point where the abilities kill you. In MoP, heroic dungeons were a joke, but CMs jumped directly to "Die, just die!" mode.

Most of that challenge was beating the timer, I really can't think of many 1 shot mechanics especially in MoP CM's.

And then, the entire thing with normalizing stats was terrible. Your character litereally played different in CM than in any other content and there was no way to practice.

No way to practice? you could practice by trying to do them and the limited stats didn't completely change how you played, if you knew your class/spec outside of CM's then you were fine, the biggest thing to learn was the pulls/bosses and when to use CD's.

[Xath]

M+ are not raids. M+ are here so people with life can also get some nice gear.

If m+ will ever require as much time as raiding i will for sure quit pve pernamently.

People with lives raid just fine. Let me correct your statement. M+ is here so bads can think they are good and get handed gear by doing lol 10s.

[jiih]

thats what i do with my friends i get them 15+ keys and in the end of the week i go with 4 rl friends who cant even time a +10 on their own just for the sake of fun.

[Flurryfang]

Most of that challenge was beating the timer, I really can't think of many 1 shot mechanics especially in MoP CM's.



No way to practice? you could practice by trying to do them and the limited stats didn't completely change how you played, if you knew your class/spec outside of CM's then you were fine, the biggest thing to learn was the pulls/bosses and when to use CD's.

Might be after a while, but the first one, that seemingly made everybody around me quit the feature, was the one shot thing. Let me take you through Siege of Nizao: Blobs blowing up on the same time= 1 shot. Letting the first boss get a little of sap= 1 shit explosion. Getting charged and being whirwind a little bit by the 2nd boss= 1-shot. Getting hit by the throw and not being fast enough to move from the charge on 3rd boss = 1-shot. Had quite a number of runs in that instance, where my team mates just said "fuck it" because they kept wiping or having people die to something like that.

And not being able to get comfortable with the stats you have been given outside of the instance is just bad, especially when it is a major change, especially later on in the expansion. When you are talking about pulls and Cds, you are already past the entire idea of getting comfortable with the situation, and to be frank, most did not even get past that first hurdle.

[Tiwack]

I'm stumped why it is not an option already. Glancing at a timer ticking down is one of the most stressful things imaginable.

If people want to take forever in an insanely high lvl + then why shouldn't they be rewarded accordingly for that daylong effort? Surely they can offer rewards same as completion without making it on time or have bosses drop some stuff again

[Sithalos]

the new dungeon (Mechagon) is way too long to consume in one sitting. It's a cool place, bosses are great and all that, but 1,5h+ for a dungeon run is just too much. They should've split it into 2 dungeons right from the release.

Mechagon isn't even that long.

Lol