1. #36281
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Their storylines and return to class quests as well as having a place for your character that is similar to a racial hub but for class. As well as quests that invoke the fantasy of being your class. Artifacts could have been throwaway but they never should have abandoned class halls, they should have added more content too them throughout the years.

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    Even without 7.3.5, 7.3 is still superior to 8.3, but I think it's fair to judge each expansion's end as a whole.
    I will definitely agree that one of the most disappointing developments in hindsight for Legion was not adding a class teleport ot the class hall to incentivize using it further. Though i guess they tied it too closely to Legion anyways. And even then, some of the class halls simply give too much utility compared to others. For instance Druids getting a portal to all across the world and Priests getting a portal to New Dalaran.


    Would you be so kind as to qualify that statement? Because from what i remember the only thing 7.3 zones ahd over 8.3 zones was a prettier skybox. The dungeon was neat once i suppose, but suffered massively in M+ because of the usual issues plaguing new dungeons. Horrific visions are comparatively something new to be hooked by, or at worst a testing ground for Torghast.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #36282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    You didn't have to grind for a currency to spend on another currency to get a piece of a quest done that is gated each week. I love visions but the gating should be very much so loosened. Also, entire storyline of 3 new zones, world quests, yes, actual world quests not shitty dailies. Plus a new dungeon vs no new dungeon. You are right about the weekly gating on the mage tower though, and the fact 8.3's story wasn't time gated is also a + for 8.3 too.

    7.3.5. added allied races way way earlier than anticipated, plus a new battleground and leveling revamp both of which were part of the next expansion, added early.

    7.3 is not perfect wow by any means, but easily better than 8.3.
    Of course 7.3 was overall better than 8.3. I think more fair would be comparing patches with similar size - 8.3 to 7.2 and 8.2 to 7.3. I think 8.3 is better than 7.2, 8.2 better than 7.3, 7.1 better than 8.1 and of course 7.0 and 8.0 are not even in same league.

    And I don't get why someone would grind dailies for visions. Just do mini vision once a day (~5 minutes), 3 invasions a week (~20 minutes each) and you're done. You have at least 3 runs per week + some change, it's pointless to waste hours for dailies to get one extra run.

    Only thing that visions really lack is some amazing set for doing 5 masks - this way they would encourage us to finish it on 4 different classes.

    Overall, I will say that in the end BfA has more to do on single character (maxing visions, unique rewards for doing all M+15, brutosaur mount, essences) and Legion had better support for people that like to play multiple chars (Mage Tower, farming legendaries, Heritage armor).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I will definitely agree that one of the most disappointing developments in hindsight for Legion was not adding a class teleport ot the class hall to incentivize using it further.
    Funny thing, we had them in early Alpha, they just remove it for most classes for some reason. But I think order class would be completely empty without mission table, I remember how "popular" was Warrior arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Costanza View Post
    About 2-3 weeks left . And about 4 weeks left til i get my invite.
    Banned on datamining week... mods are cruel.

    EDIT: Mixed 6.2 with 7.2.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2020-03-01 at 02:14 PM.

  3. #36283
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I'm mixed on warfronts, but Islands easily could have been redeemed if they removed the faction race crap and went with actual island exploration with your party, could have been like scenarios but better.
    Warfronts i think simply has too many people in it. It is difficult ot play the hero class in an RTS when you have 29 other people similarly stomping over weak enemies. As opposed to having something more reasonable like 5 people that needs to communicate to decide where player agency can turn the tide.

    Islands needed to remove both the timer (in the form of the PvP element) and possibly be soloable, as both of those 2 things are detrimental to an explorative mode that rewards useful resources that can be grinded.

    Both of these however are fundamental flaws that couldnt simply be fixed with more time. It would require completely rethinking the way it was supposed to function.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #36284
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Of course 7.3 was overall better than 8.3. I think more fair would be comparing patches with similar size - 8.3 to 6.2 and 8.2 to 7.3. I think 8.3 is better than 6.2, 8.2 better than 7.3, 7.1 better than 8.1 and of course 7.0 and 8.0 are not even in same league.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Would you be so kind as to qualify that statement? Because from what i remember the only thing 7.3 zones ahd over 8.3 zones was a prettier skybox. The dungeon was neat once i suppose, but suffered massively in M+ because of the usual issues plaguing new dungeons. Horrific visions are comparatively something new to be hooked by, or at worst a testing ground for Torghast.
    Well, the zones may have been ugly as people said, but they are still new zones. 8.3 could have had an amazing storyline and questing content if Ny'alotha was a zone like Isle of Thunder.
    Last edited by therumblings; 2020-03-01 at 02:16 PM.

  5. #36285
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    If nothing change Torghast will be nothing like Visions (beside that they are doable in 1-4 party). Torghast will be something alike mythic megadungeon, Visions are more like M+.

  6. #36286
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Well, the zones may have been ugly as people said, but they are still new zones. 8.3 could have had an amazing storyline and questing content if Ny'alotha was a zone like Isle of Thunder.
    This is a meaningless argument though. You are almost quite literally arguing the grass being greener.
    I could have just as easily sold you on the idea that getting 2 revamped titan related zones would have been a much more interesting option than a boring and dull Ny'alotha zone if that was what we ended up getting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    If nothing change Torghast will be nothing like Visions (beside that they are doable in 1-4 party). Torghast will be something alike mythic megadungeon, Visions are more like M+.
    Both Visions and Torghast are doable in a group of 1-5. The main difference between them that we know of so far being that Torghast is fully randomized and that it doenst have a timer.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #36287
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    This is a meaningless argument though. You are almost quite literally arguing the grass being greener.
    I could have just as easily sold you on the idea that getting 2 revamped titan related zones would have been a much more interesting option than a boring and dull Ny'alotha zone if that was what we ended up getting.
    I'd much rather have a brand new Ny'alotha zone that explores the entire area in the background of the raid with a unique questline and world quests, than 2 old zones with shitty dailies, either of which not even visually revamped like Darkshore and Arathi were.
    Last edited by therumblings; 2020-03-01 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #36288
    I'm really looking forward to seeing Oribos screenshots/videos.


    Also the Maw. Which I guess we still don't have any pictures or art of besides this one?
    Would be neat if they could get it this smoky/hazy and hard to see in game.

  9. #36289
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Also the Maw. Which I guess we still don't have any pictures or art of besides this one?
    Would be neat if they could get it this smoky/hazy and hard to see in game.
    Not the Maw but someone on reddit leaked the updated Icecrown skybox from the blizzcon demo a while back:


  10. #36290
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    If nothing change Torghast will be nothing like Visions (beside that they are doable in 1-4 party). Torghast will be something alike mythic megadungeon, Visions are more like M+.
    I imagined Torghast as some kind of procedurally generated content, so it changes every time you enter it, unlike visions.

  11. #36291
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    There should be no Allied Races from the Shadowlands, makes no sense for beings like that to join a faction, let alone adventure in Azeroth while being dead and wanting Anima.
    Makes no sense for Nightborne to join a faction the moment they free themselves from a bubble and end up the enemy of another faction, either.

  12. #36292
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    BfA and Shadowlands have the same shedule. They literarly launched with a with a dev admitted not working system because they didnt react to feedback.
    how is that enough gigabrain?
    A system which could have changed in the past 3 months, a system which we'll know more about during Beta and a system which could yet to change based on feedback form said beta. People are just talking shit and acting like they know everything before the Alpha has even yet to begin, so people need to shut their assholes up and quit speaking until they actually know the details fully.

  13. #36293
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    If the Covenant races would later on become allied races Blizzard would have already announced that because it would have drastically increased pre-orders and sparked a lot more interest in Shadowlands overall. Additionally it doesn't make that much sense to bring anything from Shadowlands over to the "real" world. Plus why would you distribute the Covenants between factions in the end? Three huge Nos for Covenants as allied races imho.
    They sure as hell tried to deny any and all allegations of playable vulpera happening despite all the evidence to the contrary, so I'm going to doubt you there.

    And yes, covenant races could and should be neutral.

  14. #36294
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I'd much rather have a brand new Ny'alotha zone that explores the entire area in the background of the raid, than 2 updated old zones. Unless maybe the zone had little to no new quests or no world quests like 8.3 has.
    What makes you so certain that a new zone would always be better than a revamped old one?

    We could have gotten revamped dungeons, or a more in-depth questline that looked at the various installations. The zones could have been entirely remade for all you know.
    Meanwhile Ny'alotha could have been a bunch of those platforms and ziggurats we see used so much in the raid. It could have been one of the most boring zones we had ever seen put into the game.

    There is absolutely no way of knowing what the other option would have been like. Just like with the datamined Nazjatar that had N'zoth as a subzone. It could have been far better than what we got, or it could have been shit, and the forums would have instead wondered about how great the zone we actually got would have been like, with more Zin-Azshari to explore.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #36295
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Makes no sense for Nightborne to join a faction the moment they free themselves from a bubble and end up the enemy of another faction, either.
    This is correct. We have to just "Wait and See™" but i'd bet they aren't going to be playable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    What makes you so certain that a new zone would always be better than a revamped old one?

    We could have gotten revamped dungeons, or a more in-depth questline that looked at the various installations. The zones could have been entirely remade for all you know.
    Meanwhile Ny'alotha could have been a bunch of those platforms and ziggurats we see used so much in the raid. It could have been one of the most boring zones we had ever seen put into the game.

    There is absolutely no way of knowing what the other option would have been like. Just like with the datamined Nazjatar that had N'zoth as a subzone. It could have been far better than what we got, or it could have been shit, and the forums would have instead wondered about how great the zone we actually got would have been like, with more Zin-Azshari to explore.
    Well I mean, Uldum and the Vale aren't even graphically updated like Darkshore and Arathi, having a new zone would bare minimum guarantee new quests and new assets, besides, thematically I think it would have been better, 8.3 should have at least included Ulduar for one of the assaults.

  16. #36296
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    This is correct. We have to just "Wait and See™" but i'd bet they aren't going to be playable.

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    Well I mean, Uldum and the Vale aren't even graphically updated like Darkshore and Arathi, having a new zone would bare minimum guarantee new quests and new assets, besides, thematically I think it would have been better, 8.3 should have at least included Ulduar for one of the assaults.
    Oh yeah, sure. I'm not insisting that they'll be playable.

    Just that Blizzard is probably far less concerned with what makes sense than the players themselves are.

    Frankly, the fact 3 out of 4 of the covenant races use a player skeleton is suspect to me, but that's all for now, really. We've yet to see what their models offer.

  17. #36297
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    They sure as hell tried to deny any and all allegations of playable vulpera happening despite all the evidence to the contrary, so I'm going to doubt you there.
    I'm actually wondering whether or not Vulpera were ever intended to be playable or not, or if they just left it open ended to see the community's reaction, then when the overwhelming support for them was confirmed they went ahead and sealed the deal.

  18. #36298
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    What makes you so certain that a new zone would always be better than a revamped old one?

    We could have gotten revamped dungeons, or a more in-depth questline that looked at the various installations. The zones could have been entirely remade for all you know.
    Meanwhile Ny'alotha could have been a bunch of those platforms and ziggurats we see used so much in the raid. It could have been one of the most boring zones we had ever seen put into the game.

    There is absolutely no way of knowing what the other option would have been like. Just like with the datamined Nazjatar that had N'zoth as a subzone. It could have been far better than what we got, or it could have been shit, and the forums would have instead wondered about how great the zone we actually got would have been like, with more Zin-Azshari to explore.
    At least we would've had a unique zone relevant to the final boss and not just Uldum and Vale gooped over.

    Kind of N'Zoth to only stick to those two zones, though.

  19. #36299
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    This is correct. We have to just "Wait and See™" but i'd bet they aren't going to be playable.

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    Well I mean, Uldum and the Vale aren't even graphically updated like Darkshore and Arathi, having a new zone would bare minimum guarantee new quests and new assets, besides, thematically I think it would have been better, 8.3 should have at least included Ulduar for one of the assaults.
    We did get new quests and new assets. As i mentioned, there is no way of knowing that a supposed Ny'alotha zone wouldnt simply have taken place entirely in the same giant room you start the raid in. It could have been the greatest thing since sliced bread, or it could have been awful.
    Similarly Uldum and Vale could have been teh best zone ever. They could have had revamped assets, their own transmog sets based on mantid and Aqir.
    There is no way of knowing, so arguing it seems pretty pointless.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #36300
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Not the Maw but someone on reddit leaked the updated Icecrown skybox from the blizzcon demo a while back:
    Fancy.

    I found these couple bits of concept art from the background of the Blizzcon deep dive slides.



    So looks like it will definitely have a smoky/fog aesthetic.

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