1. #39241
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Do not encourage him.





    I suppose so.
    If someone still actually thinks Sylvanas burned Teldrassil in order to win a war for the Horde, they're just hopeless in regards to following the actual story. I don't think explaining anything will do much, because things have been thoroughly explained regarding what the war was really for by now and if someone still didn't catch it, they never will

  2. #39242
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    If someone still actually thinks Sylvanas burned Teldrassil in order to win a war for the Horde, they're just hopeless in regards to following the actual story. I don't think explaining anything will do much, because things have been thoroughly explained regarding what the war was really for by now and if someone still didn't catch it, they never will
    She was just making deals with Azshara and demanding that she ends both the Alliance and Horde to win the war for the Horde.

    She's OurQueen after all!!! You just don't understand her 4D interdimensional underwater backgammon because your mind has been infected by Lionfang's treasonous poison.

  3. #39243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Fucking stop with this, thats justifying genocide, no fuck off with this nonsense. Don't even start with "Why so hostile" That kind of "twist" just makes it look like "WELP GENOCIDE IS A OK GUYS"
    Find it odd people compare fiction morals with real life morals.

    How are you able to play almost any game when you can't separate the two?

  4. #39244
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Find it odd people compare fiction morals with real life morals.

    How are you able to play almost any game when you can't separate the two?
    We really going to have this discussion?
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  5. #39245
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    She was just making deals with Azshara and demanding that she ends both the Alliance and Horde to win the war for the Horde.

    She's OurQueen after all!!! You just don't understand her 4D interdimensional underwater backgammon because your mind has been infected by Lionfang's treasonous poison.
    I'm quite sure if anyone is poisoning my mind it's N'zoth and no one else!


    ... and I like Backgammon (although I can confirm 4D interdimensional underwater may be beyond me).


  6. #39246
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Or there will be 3 builds this week (or 1 of 3 week to wait)
    Would probably say the latter :P.
    There is still 3 weeks left of march .

    And my predictions are usually off by a week.

  7. #39247
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Find it odd people compare fiction morals with real life morals.

    How are you able to play almost any game when you can't separate the two?
    Ask Blizzard about that one.

  8. #39248
    Quote Originally Posted by George Costanza View Post
    How would it be fucking with blizzard if its mostly software related stuff? aside from that blizz will probably follow EA Dice, Discord, spotify etcs example and have people work from home.
    Not everyone can work from home, and not everyone can always work from home.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  9. #39249
    Quote Originally Posted by puddypounce View Post
    You were seriously not paying attention to either the quests or the marketing material if you thought the entire expansion wasn't planned as the old god expansion. Go watch the Azshara warbringer short and tell me it wasn't abundantly obvious Nzoth would be the big bad.
    No, i was pretty damn sure Blizzard was going ot make the expansion into an old god one like MoP did with Y'sharrj by the end, the problem i have is that unlike MoP there is no connective tissue between Sylvanas burning Teldrassil and the Alliance retaliating, and N'zoth being released. Beyond the vaguest of rationalizations that Sylvanas wanted N'zoth to kill even more people.

    In MoP the expansion started with Garrosh nuking Theramore and both him and the Alliance sending agents to Pandaria, we then learned that war in this country can lead to the ressurection of the old god Y'sharrj, so when we got to the old god part it felt like a natural extension of the faction war storyline.

    In WoD we still fought orcs throughout, and the final raid takes place in the converted stronghold of the Iron Horde after they drank the demon blood. The main theme changed, but there was still a narrative link between the two events.

    Legion had demons throughout.


    In BfA we start with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil, Alliance retaliates and open war begins. There are hints of old gods quite a few places, but not that much more than there were naga in Legion. Everything seems to point ot Sylvanas as the final antagonist, that she is going to do something drastic to cap off the expansion.
    Then she leaves and N'zoth rises. No real reason why the faction war released him, there is no good reason why Sylvanas couldnt have helped Azshara release N'zoth even if the Alliance and Horde were not fighting, would possibly even put less of a target on her, allowing her to make sure N'zoth is even more destructive before killing him.

    And that is why BfA is the only expansion so far to not even attempt having the same plot at the end. Because there is never a scene or quest or anything that should make us even remotely beleive that defeating N'zoth will somehow definetively end the plot kickstarted with Teldrassil.

  10. #39250
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    No, i was pretty damn sure Blizzard was going ot make the expansion into an old god one like MoP did with Y'sharrj by the end, the problem i have is that unlike MoP there is no connective tissue between Sylvanas burning Teldrassil and the Alliance retaliating, and N'zoth being released. Beyond the vaguest of rationalizations that Sylvanas wanted N'zoth to kill even more people.

    In MoP the expansion started with Garrosh nuking Theramore and both him and the Alliance sending agents to Pandaria, we then learned that war in this country can lead to the ressurection of the old god Y'sharrj, so when we got to the old god part it felt like a natural extension of the faction war storyline.

    In WoD we still fought orcs throughout, and the final raid takes place in the converted stronghold of the Iron Horde after they drank the demon blood. The main theme changed, but there was still a narrative link between the two events.

    Legion had demons throughout.


    In BfA we start with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil, Alliance retaliates and open war begins. There are hints of old gods quite a few places, but not that much more than there were naga in Legion. Everything seems to point ot Sylvanas as the final antagonist, that she is going to do something drastic to cap off the expansion.
    Then she leaves and N'zoth rises. No real reason why the faction war released him, there is no good reason why Sylvanas couldnt have helped Azshara release N'zoth even if the Alliance and Horde were not fighting, would possibly even put less of a target on her, allowing her to make sure N'zoth is even more destructive before killing him.

    And that is why BfA is the only expansion so far to not even attempt having the same plot at the end. Because there is never a scene or quest or anything that should make us even remotely beleive that defeating N'zoth will somehow definetively end the plot kickstarted with Teldrassil.
    Because the plot that started with Teldrassil continues into Shadowlands. The whole point of Teldrassil was to start a war that would cost the maximum amount of lives on the planet, so the Maw would be fed enough for the Jailer to become the ultimate big bad... in the next expansion.

    We already knew that the Old Gods losing with their scheme was going to get us to a point where there would be something even worse. We heard that back in Cata from Murozond. And we heard it again in BfA from N'zoth... and Sylvanas, if you played the loyalist part.

  11. #39251
    Part of the reason BFA sucked was that half of it was devoted to being the prequel for a more interesting expansion.

  12. #39252
    Mechagnome Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Part of the reason BFA sucked was that half of it was devoted to being the prequel for a more interesting expansion.
    Same with WoD

  13. #39253
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    We really going to have this discussion?
    Up to you.

  14. #39254
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Because the plot that started with Teldrassil continues into Shadowlands. The whole point of Teldrassil was to start a war that would cost the maximum amount of lives on the planet, so the Maw would be fed enough for the Jailer to become the ultimate big bad... in the next expansion.

    We already knew that the Old Gods losing with their scheme was going to get us to a point where there would be something even worse. We heard that back in Cata from Murozond. And we heard it again in BfA from N'zoth... and Sylvanas, if you played the loyalist part.
    That still doesnt give explain how or why N'zoth ties into the faction war. We could ahve fought pretty much anything else related to Sylvanas and it would make more sense.

    We could ahve fought Sylvanas herself, even if we didnt defeat her and she escaped to the Shadowlands it would be an ending to BfA.
    We could fight a death entity like the Jailer, it would tie into how Sylvanas is usign the war to create death.
    We could have fought a risen Saurfang for the final boss and it would be a great capstone to an expansion that began with him being disillusioned by the Horde because of Sylvanas.

    But instead we fight N'zoth. No good reason given except he is there. You could replace him with almost anything.
    Ragnaros has been ressurected because Sylvanas wants him to kill more people.
    Azshara fights us again because Sylvanas wants us to be killed by her.
    AU Yrel invades while we were busy fighting eachother-
    A random squid god suddenly rises from the ocean and is prompty squashed the second he shows up.


    By all means, continue the narrative thread of Teldrassil burning into Shadowlands, i do look forward ot seeing where they take it. But for hte love of god, please do not think that doing so gives you an excuse to drop plot points in the middle of an expansion and replace it with something else.
    Imagine if other expansions did this.

    WotLK final patch is fighting Deathwing, because the Arthas storyline is going ot be continued in another expansion.
    Legion ends with Nazjatar and Azshara because she was heavily foreshadowed in quests, dungeons and raids, and they want to save Argus for another expansion.
    TBC ends with sudden Arthas appearance, Kil'jaeden is simply too important to end on, and with Teron Gorefiend DKs have been heavily teased anyways.

    The story would be nonsensical, because you have removed the actual ending to the sotyr and replaced it with something thematically dissonant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Part of the reason BFA sucked was that half of it was devoted to being the prequel for a more interesting expansion.
    Well that is one part, the other is that it is a Frankenstein that seemed to cut off its own ending and replace it with one from a different expansion.

    I mean honestly, couldnt people see 8.3 being the final patch of a world revamp expansion where we fight against the Black empire at every turn, slowly building up to the climactic finale of N'zoth going ot titan facilities and us having to stop him? Instead of N'zoth suddenly showing up and being defeated instantly.

  15. #39255
    You know why we fought N'Zoth.
    It's because Azeroth is free.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  16. #39256
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    You know why we fought N'Zoth.
    It's because Azeroth is free.
    At least this time we don't have Sylvanas saying that next to Tyrande who is weirdly okay with this mass murdering sociopath running free.

  17. #39257
    Mechagnome Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    At least this time we don't have Sylvanas saying that next to Tyrande who is weirdly okay with this mass murdering sociopath running free.
    Let's not speak too soon, it could (unfortunately) still happen in SL.

  18. #39258
    Dreadlord Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Find it odd people compare fiction morals with real life morals.

    How are you able to play almost any game when you can't separate the two?
    Its more odd that you would try to make a point out of nothing when often fictional morals are drawn from real ones.



    Protip: being an edgy contrarian doesn't make you look any more insightful or cool, you just look like a bonehead.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  19. #39259
    Mechagnome Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Find it odd people compare fiction morals with real life morals.

    How are you able to play almost any game when you can't separate the two?
    Why is there such a controversy around this? If a character does something that you would consider evil in real life, then they are evil, plain and simple. They are fictitious, you can still enjoy them, but trying to defend them and say they aren't evil and being "oh well it's just a character it's fiction and morals don't matter" is some big time BS.

    The two are obviously separate, but saying we can't separate the two is a copout on the argument of the character in question, when we clearly can.
    Last edited by Gifdwarf; 2020-03-11 at 11:25 PM.

  20. #39260
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Why is there such a controversy around this? If a character does something that you would consider evil in real life, then they are evil, plain and simple. They are fictitious, you can still enjoy them, but trying to defend them and say they aren't evil and being "oh well it's just a character it's fiction and morals don't matter" is some big time BS.

    The two are obviously separate, but saying we can't separate the two is a copout on the argument of the character in question, when we clearly can.
    Which isn't the point... The point is that it's a false conclusion to think people say "genocide is OK" if they were to make a redemption arc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    Its more odd that you would try to make a point out of nothing when often fictional morals are drawn from real ones.



    Protip: being an edgy contrarian doesn't make you look any more insightful or cool, you just look like a bonehead.
    nor am I trying to be. You seem more on edge than I am.

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