1. #40561
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    No one is going to convince me they actually, actually think that paladins sitting there auto-attacking with seals is better design than current paladin.

    Yeah that was terrible and pretty boring, any kind of class having that is just terrible and no excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    TBF, there's one thing you're missing there.
    Mana-battery Spriest (especially the undead kind, with Devouring Plague), did the DPS requirement. In a lot of fights (admittedly, ones where they could cross dot adds), they pulled ahead of some of the pure DPS roles.
    It wasn't a bad DPS spec, and I am kind of sad a lot of classes lost their niche, but on the other hand, I'm glad I can pick a spec without worrying that my utility won't make up for my loss of damage.

    I'm kind of back and forth on which I'd prefer.
    IMO Shadow priests should still be able to do good damage and have some utility(Whatever that is). Sacrificing damage for utility I dunno...seems dumb.
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  2. #40562
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I don't see any way to earn talents post(or independent of) level cap, so no, they aren't.

    They only seem identical to you because you keep ignoring the major differences between the two systems. Essences and Azerite aren't just the slots to fill in, but also the way of obtaining them. Artifact weapons, by design, didn't even have any choice beyond what order you pick the bonuses in.
    Seriously? If you can't see the logical fallacy of a statment like "I can't see any way to earn talents POST a level cap" and you belife that talents arn't earnt then tis likely won't go anywhere.

    But your refusal to recognise the obvious, and to find excuses and caveats to avoid calling something what it is because it dosnt fit with your view or preconceived notions dosnt change what it is. They are talent systems. Some are exact rip offs of other games talent systems. If you accept that or not is inconsequential tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    ROFL. People just claim Azerite and those other systems are "Whatever is convenient for my terrible, ill-supported argument". You're claiming they're "talents", another guy is claiming they're a replacement for the pruned abilities, another still is claiming they're just a replacement for tier armour.



    That's obviously not what they're doing, so... not a very convincing argument.



    If you're claiming all classes are significantly impacted by the GCD changes? Because if so I'm not even talking to you anymore. That's beyond ludicrous into "straight-up lies which everyone including the person saying it knows are lies".

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    Yeah. Heirlooms are stuck. They can't easily get rid of them because people invested a lot of time and effort in getting them, especially some of the more casual players, and they're involved with achievements and so on. And they serve a useful function in ensuring people leveling up have solid gear, when it is possible RNG to otherwise screw you, especially if you're leveling primarily by dungeons or PvP.

    But it does seem quite likely they'll remove or massively nerf the XP boost, because if leveling is 70% shorter than now, it won't be needed.

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    That was an issue in TBC. That was in an issue Vanilla, FFS. Plenty of classes/specs sucked in TBC. And most of the max-level stuff was more tedious than the BfA stuff. I'm glad you're enjoying Classic, but I strongly suspect that if they added TBC to Classic, people at max level would be having significantly less fun.

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    I mean, Hamsters, you usually make really reasonable posts, but you're confusing an ill-supported opinion for a fact here. He may well have a source, probably someone on one of the non-core teams, like the web developers, but that's very different from a "direct line".
    Are they not. So they took away alot of abilities you got from filling a bar.

    People complained.

    So they added a load of new abilities you get by filling bars.

    You can accept that or not, dosnt make difference. Hell the next Bar filling exercise even comes in a tree structure rationalise that with your world view how ever you want bud.

  3. #40563

  4. #40564
    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    See a doctor; you've had these bowel problems for long enough.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  5. #40565
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    It's gotten worse over the years, it's still one of the problems Legion had and BfA has. I hope Shadowlands goes another way but I don't hold my breath. I'd rather be a Shadow Priest with HP/MP regen and deal 15% less damage than just one DPS like every other in game. But that might be my personal preference.
    It's very easy to say that now, when you personally think that Spriest plays terribly. But imagine trying ot champion this mentality at the beginning of Legion, when the best Priest players used STM to burst down Mythic Il'gynoth hard enough to require both buffing Il'gynoth and nerfing STM.

    There is also the problem of considering what the priest players who want to play competetively would feel knowing their class is at best 15% worse than any other player, more if the raid tier has loads of fights that Spriests do not do well at.

  6. #40566
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's very easy to say that now, when you personally think that Spriest plays terribly. But imagine trying ot champion this mentality at the beginning of Legion, when the best Priest players used STM to burst down Mythic Il'gynoth hard enough to require both buffing Il'gynoth and nerfing STM.

    There is also the problem of considering what the priest players who want to play competetively would feel knowing their class is at best 15% worse than any other player, more if the raid tier has loads of fights that Spriests do not do well at.
    I don't know why anyone would want to be 15% weaker just to have extra regen, thats not even fair...or even good design.
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  7. #40567
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't know why anyone would want to be 15% weaker just to have extra regen, thats not even fair...or even good design.
    that the wow classic itself, right now how is the game designed its stupid to have a dps that gets 15% lower dps because "utility".

    Its simple if we want "supporters", "debuffers" and in the end classes that are oriented to utility, we need to rework the metagame of the Trinity Aka Tank,DPS and Healer, to the Tank,DPS,Healer and Support/Debuffer.

    But this a fucking huge change, that dont think gonna happen, in the end World of Warcraft uses the traditional trinity of tank, dps and healer.

    Classic is not diferent but in the beginning the system of classes was awful and a lot of dps specs where shit and was categorized as spec "utility" or something like that.

  8. #40568
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Seriously? If you can't see the logical fallacy of a statment like "I can't see any way to earn talents POST a level cap" and you belife that talents arn't earnt then tis likely won't go anywhere.
    But that's the entire point of the systems in question. Providing you with the ability to gain something outside of gear at level cap. If you ignore that, your entire argument is meaningless. There's a logical fallacy here alright, but you need to look in the mirror harder.

  9. #40569
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    I have this feeling that heirlooms are going away in 9.0.

    Leveling is being sped up so much in the upcoming revamp that there's going to be no real need for them. People who've collected a lot of them and the upgrades should probably be compensated, though.
    Taking things away from players that said players have spent tons of gold on would be goodwill suicide. I'm not sure HOW they could do away with Heirlooms as they function now without having hell to pay for it.

    Maybe it's just like flying: They opened the can of worms, they gotta learn to live with it.

    As for people and Towelliee: When he says direct line, I assume it to mean just that. Would be weird if the large stramers on good footing with Blizzard are not in contact with Lore for example, when he's literally in charge of Streamer relations.
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  10. #40570
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    As for people and Towelliee: When he says direct line, I assume it to mean just that. Would be weird if the large stramers on good footing with Blizzard are not in contact with Lore for example, when he's literally in charge of Streamer relations.
    The person who is in charge of the streamers isn't going to be giving shit away to Streamers, dude. He's the least likely person to leak or the like.

    Further, a direct line would imply that he had a line inside Blizzard, not a PR flack. I mean, jeez, by that logic an awful lot of people have "direct line" to Blizzard.

  11. #40571
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The person who is in charge of the streamers isn't going to be giving shit away to Streamers, dude. He's the least likely person to leak or the like.

    Further, a direct line would imply that he had a line inside Blizzard, not a PR flack. I mean, jeez, by that logic an awful lot of people have "direct line" to Blizzard.
    Yet Lore have literally posted in the stream chat at times.
    And it is not leaks, but information. If a streamer privvy to that information leaked it before it was time, they'd be in trouble. I'm 100% sure that the info is given to create low-key, obscure hype from content creators they can trust.

    And yes, I'm guessing a direct line means exactly that. And no, "an awful lot of people" do not have that perk granted to them.

    I've watched the stream for years. It is pretty clear which streamers/content creators are approved at the Blizzard headquarter and thus get special treatment. Off-topic as it is, I'm leaving this convo with that.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2020-03-22 at 12:37 AM.
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  12. #40572
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't know why anyone would want to be 15% weaker just to have extra regen, thats not even fair...or even good design.
    Who are you to say what's good and bad design?

  13. #40573
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Who are you to say what's good and bad design?
    ....You really want me to explain somehow losing a lot of damage in a Spec designed to focus on damage somehow has something that guts their damage just for some hp/mana regen? Yeah no..... thats just dumb, the spec should be able to do damage effectively.
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  14. #40574
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    ....You really want me to explain somehow losing a lot of damage in a Spec designed to focus on damage somehow has something that guts their damage just for some hp/mana regen? Yeah no..... thats just dumb, the spec should be able to do damage effectively.
    Agreed, it's lazy design at best.
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  15. #40575
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Agreed, it's lazy design at best.
    the hybrid tax is a design that not only did not work but also had the feel of sandpaper on your scrotum when playing

    back in the world you could get stuff like that to work because

    class A could do X and Z
    class B could do X and Y
    class C could do Y and Z

    players did not really care because at that point we had just come from a case where

    class A could do X but not Y or Z
    class B could do Y but not X or Z
    class C could do Z but not X or Y

  16. #40576
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    the hybrid tax is a design that not only did not work but also had the feel of sandpaper on your scrotum when playing

    back in the world you could get stuff like that to work because

    class A could do X and Z
    class B could do X and Y
    class C could do Y and Z

    players did not really care because at that point we had just come from a case where

    class A could do X but not Y or Z
    class B could do Y but not X or Z
    class C could do Z but not X or Y
    Why can a Rogue literally do everything better than most other Melee then? Right now, in the current game.

  17. #40577
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Why can a Rogue literally do everything better than most other Melee then? Right now, in the current game.
    Debatable and subjective as hell.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  18. #40578
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    But that's the entire point of the systems in question. Providing you with the ability to gain something outside of gear at level cap. If you ignore that, your entire argument is meaningless. There's a logical fallacy here alright, but you need to look in the mirror harder.
    you lityteraly arguing that there not talent systems because you ern them after max level rather than earn them whilst leveling. you whole argument is based on the bar you fill not being purple/blue but being yellow or green instead. thats it, how you dont see that is beyond me.

  19. #40579
    Fire Mages are pretty braindead right now.

  20. #40580
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No, that was one of MoP's biggest problems.
    Can't tell if joking or being hilariously ignorant to how that's not how Mop was.

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